The Dark Knight Your thoughts on how it should Begin.

Cyrusbales said:
it's something different to most of the suggestions, I'm thinking out of the box, I want something special, the kind of film that people thought BB was. granted it's a little obscure, but why not? It's better than 'a generic action sequence' etc

No, it is better way how to begin the whole movie and there is nothing special or new. It is just easier way how to make people excited without making any sense.

So it won't work at all.
 
Cinemaman said:
I think it would be better beginning for 3rd movie.
How so? Joker would/should be the focus of this film, so that intro/ending wouldn't really work for the third film, where Two-Face would take center-stage.
 
Cinemaman said:
No, it is better way how to begin the whole movie and there is nothing special or new. It is just easier way how to make people excited without making any sense.

So it won't work at all.

Cause no one would accept it:(. I think we'll end up with a random action sequence for this film, nothing extreme, just a good awakening for the audience, nothing special.
 
Crooklyn said:
How so? Joker would/should be the focus of this film, so that intro/ending wouldn't really work for the third film, where Two-Face would take center-stage.

What?

1. Batman should always stay as the center of the whole movie.

2. I thought Dent will become 2Face in 3rd movie :confused:
 
Cyrusbales said:
Cause no one would accept it:(. I think we'll end up with a random action sequence for this film, nothing extreme, just a good awakening for the audience, nothing special.

Uhhh, I think it should begin with the development of Bruce Wayne and only then (after 15-20 minutes of the movie) there will be action scenes with Batman looking for Arkham prisoners.
 
Cinemaman said:
What?

1. Batman should always stay as the center of the whole movie.
I'm talking in terms of the main villain.

2. I thought Dent will become 2Face in 3rd movie :confused:
Yeah...which is why my intro/ending wouldn't work for the third film.
 
Crooklyn said:
I'm talking in terms of the main villain.


Yeah...which is why my intro/ending wouldn't work for the third film.

And? It doesn't make sense, because the whole movie should always start with the main character - Batman.
 
Cinemaman said:
And? It doesn't make sense, because the whole movie should always start with the main character - Batman.
Says who?

As long as the whole film centers around the main character, it's not imperative the first scene MUST have that character in it.
 
Crooklyn said:
Says who?

As long as the whole film centers around the main character, it's not imperative the first scene MUST have that character in it.

I said "should", not "must".
 
Have the swirling Bats and same music again, maybe have the bats form a joker symbol. Camera pans down to the Gotham cityscape. The Bats swarm past the camera, blending into another shot of the camera tracking very fast over wet tarmac at night, and a man running for his life down a dirty alley. He turns his head to see if he's still being chased, we see fleeting movements on the rooftops above, unnoticed by the man. He turns several corners, stumbling over rubbish bags, reaching the waters edge. Nowhere to run. On the opposite bank, Wayne Tower.

The man puts his back against a warehouse wall, struggling for breath, peering around the corner from where he came. The coast is clear. Fumbling in his jacket he takes out his cell phone, dials a number, warns someone The Batman is on his tail, ends the call. Takes another look around the corner, Batman drops to the ground. The man hasn't even turned round before Batman knocks him out cold. Batman catches the phone, plugs a device into its port, cloning the phone. The calls details are displayed, bringing up a registered address for the number. The grappling gun is fired, then on to the next scene.

Anything really, as long as its fast paced. If it follows the same style as Begins it would be cool.
 
Cinemaman said:
I said "should", not "must".
You're essentially saying the same thing though. Plus you said in a previous sentence that starting it off w/o a main character "doesn't make sense"....which in itself "doesn't make sense".

That's all.
 
Crooklyn said:
You're essentially saying the same thing though. Plus you said in a previous sentence that starting it off w/o a main character "doesn't make sense"....which in itself "doesn't make sense".

That's all.

Again, I said "should" and I meant "should". Well, I was wrong there. But I really don't want to see TDK beginning with the villian. This is just wrong.
 
Cinemaman said:
Again, I said "should" and I meant "should". Well, I was wrong there. But I really don't want to see TDK beginning with the villian. This is just wrong.
Well do you mind explaining why you think it is wrong? It's just an intro scene, nothing big.

Films like the Usual Suspects & The Departed didn't suffer from it. Yet they are modern film classics (or soon to be anyway).
 
Crooklyn said:
Well do you mind explaining why you think it is wrong? It's just an intro scene, nothing big.

Films like the Usual Suspects & The Departed didn't suffer from it. Yet they are modern film classics (or soon to be anyway).

Usual Suspects and The Departed weren't superhero movie.

They were thrillers, where audience need to see the whole to understand who is real good guy and who is real bad guy.

In TDK we know who is good and who is bad. So again, this doesn't make sense.
 
I like the idea but reckon it would be better to slowly lead up to the mysterious Joker with Batman on his trail. Like in the first issue where the Joker is an unstoppable force. Having Joker captured gives the game away too early IMO. Plenty of flashbacks would be great though, a more complex detective story than last time is what I'd expect from Nolan. If they're going to have a backstory it should be in fragments that speeds things up
 
sasquatchs said:
I like the idea but reckon it would be better to slowly lead up to the mysterious Joker with Batman on his trail. Like in the first issue where the Joker is an unstoppable force. Having Joker captured gives the game away too early IMO. Plenty of flashbacks would be great though, a more complex detective story than last time is what I'd expect from Nolan. If they're going to have a backstory it should be in fragments that speeds things up

Agreed, but they also should put this backstory after we 1st time see Joker (2nd Act I think).
 
Cinemaman said:
Usual Suspects and The Departed weren't superhero movie.

They were thrillers, where audience need to see the whole to understand who is real good guy and who is real bad guy.

In TDK we know who is good and who is bad. So again, this doesn't make sense.
You'd have to be blind or deaf to not realize Nicholson was a baddie by the first minute of the film.

As for superhero movies showcasing the villain first? Superman Returns. Batman Returns. Batman Forever. X-Men. It's not a new thing.

And again, you still haven't explained why it's wrong to have a baddie be in the first scene. It's not detrimental to the whole film.

sasquatchs said:
I like the idea but reckon it would be better to slowly lead up to the mysterious Joker with Batman on his trail. Like in the first issue where the Joker is an unstoppable force. Having Joker captured gives the game away too early IMO.
They could go either way with it, and it'd be fine I'm sure. Don't know how showing Joker getting captured gives away the game though. We all know he'll be captured sooner or later, and it's not like we're getting the answer to a plot twist so to speak.
 
Crooklyn said:
You'd have to be blind or deaf to not realize Nicholson was a baddie by the first minute of the film.

As for superhero movies showcasing the villain first? Superman Returns. Batman Returns. Batman Forever. X-Men. It's not a new thing.

And again, you still haven't explained why it's wrong to have a baddie be in the first scene. It's not detrimental to the whole film.

I knew this, but it is Scorsese's movie, in which everything can happen.

And that was their big mistake (except X-Men; Magneto was just kid and he didn't know his powers).

So you want to show Joker with the first minute of the movie? Joker is the main attraction of this movie (but still, Batman is the center of story) and it wouldn't be so exciting for audience to already see him.
 
Cinemaman said:
I knew this, but it is Scorsese's movie, in which everything can happen.

And that was their big mistake (except X-Men; Magneto was just kid and he didn't know his powers).

So you want to show Joker with the first minute of the movie? Joker is the main attraction of this movie (but still, Batman is the center of story) and it wouldn't be so exciting for audience to already see him.

As pre Joker sure, they can show him in the first few minutes.
 
Mr. Socko said:
As pre Joker sure, they can show him in the first few minutes.

Well, I doubt, because Joker has become Joker in BB (that of course wasn't shown, but remember that last scene with the card).

Anyway, they can make this backstory as flashback scene.
 
Cinemaman said:
I knew this, but it is Scorsese's movie, in which everything can happen.
Except for the fact Scorcese made it quite clear ol' Jack was an evil muh'f**ker.

And that was their big mistake (except X-Men; Magneto was just kid and he didn't know his powers).
And how was it a "big mistake"? Are you telling me the intro has a lot to do with making a movie good or bad overall? How did showing Lex with a widow affect the film? Following a newborn Penguin through the sewers? Watching Two-Face rob a bank? These things aren't significant to a film's quality.

So you want to show Joker with the first minute of the movie? Joker is the main attraction of this movie (but still, Batman is the center of story) and it wouldn't be so exciting for audience to already see him.
Unless WB's marketing is a complete flop, the entire audience will already know what Joker will look like before even sitting down to see the film. And if you don't want a full reveal, you can easily just show Joker being escorted, but have the cam up close so you never get a good look of him. Just to tell the audience it is Joker, have him either laugh or show the grin he has. There. Mysterious, creepy, and subtle. Anything else?
 
Crooklyn said:
Except for the fact Scorcese made it quite clear ol' Jack was an evil muh'f**ker.


And how was it a "big mistake"? Are you telling me the intro has a lot to do with making a movie good or bad overall? How did showing Lex with a widow affect the film? Following a newborn Penguin through the sewers? Watching Two-Face rob a bank? These things aren't significant to a film's quality.


Unless WB's marketing is a complete flop, the entire audience will already know what Joker will look like before even sitting down to see the film. And if you don't want a full reveal, you can easily just show Joker being escorted, but have the cam up close so you never get a good look of him. Just to tell the audience it is Joker, have him either laugh or show the grin he has. There. Mysterious, creepy, and subtle. Anything else?

Yep.

Uuuhh, it just didn't work, because the movie should be focused on the main character, not the main villian.

Oh, so you want to see Joker at first minutes of TDK and then get disappointed, because after 1st act there won't be anything so exciting like 1st scene with him. TDK should begin with Bruce, because he is the main hero and Nolan is going to focus on him, not Joker, like it happened with B89 (and this was also big mistake, even if movie didn't begin with Joker).
 
Cinemaman said:
Uuuhh, it just didn't work, because the movie should be focused on the main character, not the main villian.
Intro = avg. of 2 minutes
Movie = avg. of 120 minutes

So please tell me, how a 2 minute intro can completely overshadow the rest of the film that is 60x it's length.

Oh, so you want to see Joker at first minutes of TDK and then get disappointed, because after 1st act there won't be anything so exciting like 1st scene with him.
Umm...how would you get disappointed? Using my intro as an example, you see the guy being escorted to his trial, extreme close-ups, no dialogue, slow and eery music. That shows NOTHING about the character.

TDK should begin with Bruce, because he is the main hero and Nolan is going to focus on him, not Joker, like it happened with B89 (and this was also big mistake, even if movie didn't begin with Joker).
Like I've already said, the villain overtaking the hero in a film is not the intro's fault, it is the writing and direction of the film. If Nolan makes sure Bruce is still the center of focus THROUGHOUT the movie, how is showing Joker first contradicting that?
 
Crooklyn said:
Intro = avg. of 2 minutes
Movie = avg. of 120 minutes

So please tell me, how a 2 minute intro can completely overshadow the rest of the film that is 60x it's length.


Umm...how would you get disappointed? Using my intro as an example, you see the guy being escorted to his trial, extreme close-ups, no dialogue, slow and eery music. That shows NOTHING about the character.


Like I've already said, the villain overtaking the hero in a film is not the intro's fault, it is the writing and direction of the film. If Nolan makes sure Bruce is still the center of focus THROUGHOUT the movie, how is showing Joker first contradicting that?

Because it is just like put 1st scene with Batman in first minutes of BB. It is the half of attraction, which would be used in the beginning, when you don't need to show the main scenes.

It wasn't the intro of TDK, it would be good intro for BB3, but not for TDK. And, at first you should continue development of the main character before telling the story of the villian (the same mistake, which happened in BR). And as I said, it is just like put 1st scene with Batman in first minutes of BB.

No, it is. Nolan should show Bruce before Joker, because it is necessary to show at first something about the main character before using the story of the villian.

Really, I just can't understand the whole your point.
 

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