Your top 5 things that needs to be "fixed" for the Batman reboot

Discussion in 'The Batman' started by MessiahDecoy123, Mar 4, 2013.

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What do you want fixed for the Batman reboot? (multiple votes allowed)

  1. More impressive fight scenes

  2. "World's greatest detective" better displayed

  3. More imaginative villains/concepts explored

  4. More iconic imagery (Gotham/Batmobile/etc)

  5. Sidekicks included (Robin, Nightwing, Oracle)

  6. Full extent of Batman's various training better implied (flashbacks?)

  7. No growling Bat-voice

  8. Bruce is the mask, Batman is the true face

  9. Fix the suit (NO RUBBER)

  10. Fix the suit (BUT USING RUBBER AGAIN)

  11. No love interest

  12. No Lucius Fox (Batman does all the brainy work)

  13. Batman is a more shadowy and mysterious figure

  14. More BTAS influence

  15. More Arkham Asylum influence

  16. More comic book influence (70's-current)

  17. More memorable theme music

  18. Moar prep-time!!! (Batman is always a few steps ahead)

  19. All of the above

  20. other (please specify below)

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. jonathancrane

    jonathancrane I love Marvel, DC & EC!

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    My New Top 5:


    1. Stop with the Gotham destruction plots. With a Rogues' gallery as large and psychotic as Batman's, the film does not have to have citywide destruction promised to have the audience care about the stakes. They could the stakes personal, as in the case of 'Daredevil' (which looked and felt more of a Batman film than anything since Burton left,) or in terms of legacy (Morrison's RIP,) or ethics/morals (Arkham City.) The only exception I would make to this rule is if they have Poison Ivy as the villain and went for Transformers' level of destruction, as her plants demolished the city. Other than that - which will never happen - stop with the damn destruction plots already.

    2. Stop the secularization. In comparison to other characters, Batman is considerably secularized: there is no need to inject more cinematic realism into the character. While I loved Nolan's films dearly (and have defended them innumerable times,) I do not want the aesthetic to return. Hell, at this point, I'd welcome the Rainbow Monster and Crazy Quilt as villains if it meant not returning to the aesthetic. The Arkham games stand as a good vein of ore for them to mine. Or, they could jettison it completely and go for something as unique as 'Gothic' (the supernatural would be terrific,) or sci-fi as 'Court of the Owls.'

    3. To borrow a term from Morrison, make Bruce a 'lovegod.' In my opinion, the only film that adequately portrayed how Bruce's lovelife should be was Mask of the Phantasm. In that film, viewers saw the one woman who almost made him retire (but he did not) and in the party scene, evidence that he had a very healthy libido. It is easy to follow the train of thought that he sublimates his urges through beating the criminals, in costume - Burton drew symmetry between Bats and cat, in this regard-but, after seven films, adapting this standard is lazy. Pay the extra couple hundred k and hire some women to be his love interests. I want to see acknowledgments to relationships with Julie Madison, Silver St. Cloud, and Vicki Vale. Again, I refer to the party scene from Mask of the Phantasm.

    4. Retire the depressed-recluse characterization. While CConn made an interesting argument a while ago that part of Bruce's characterization in the Burton's film is based partly on Burton himself, outside of those films, I am tired of Bruce being the depressed recluse. The successful duality he has in the comics is based on the public persona he adopts: the filmmakers need to make him a public figure and show it. One aspect I liked about Arkham City was the opening: where Wayne was holding a press conference and denouncing the facility. I want to see scenes like that in the next film, and not have his public appearances be limited to damn board meetings and the occasional double date.

    5. Lose Lucius/Origins. Everyone knows Batman's origin; the flashback sequence should be no more than two minutes in the film, preferably thirty seconds. In addition, Bruce should manufacture his own equipment in the film, and not use Lucius. The problem with the Nolan films is that the ratio of Bruce's involvement decreased as time went on. Referring back to the Arkham games, I want a scene where he assembles a gadget on the spot, such as the REC. He's supposed to have genius level intelligence; it's about damn time they showed it.
     
    #301
  2. TheJediBrah

    TheJediBrah Well-Known Member

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    Personally I think the title of this thread was perhaps a little more confrontational than it needed to be. Stating that things needed to be "fixed" implies that there were serious issues with the Nolan films and that there were glaring errors that hurt the film. I don't think this is the case and the responses in this thread further support my position, as all I really see are personal preferences and nothing that was really inherently wrong with the film.

    I suppose I'm in the minority in that I wouldn't be interested at all in seeing more "detectiving" by Batman, I would find that boring if it were too much.
    I'm one of the people who is a fan of realistic setting and thinks the Nolan trilogy was almost perfect. If I would change anything it would be the "more realistic fight scenes" because if you actually watch a scene where Batman is fighting a bunch of guys, unless you focus on batman, the choreographing is painfully obvious and each bad guy is just sort of floating around waiting for batman to beat him up.
     
    #302
  3. MessiahDecoy123

    MessiahDecoy123 Psychological Anarchist

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    Well there are hundreds of threads that pick apart Nolan's Batman trilogy piece by piece.

    So to suggest that there's room for improvement is not that radical of a notion.
     
    #303
  4. jonathancrane

    jonathancrane I love Marvel, DC & EC!

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    Everyone has their own definition of what Batman is, and what a Batman film should be. However, having said that, if we adopted the postmodern approach, the thread would be titled, "What is a Batman film?" I like the title and format, as it allows us to define our terms for what a definitive Batman film is, or is not.
     
    #304
  5. MessiahDecoy123

    MessiahDecoy123 Psychological Anarchist

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    Really there are only two factions.

    Those who think it can get better than Nolan's version and those who don't.
     
    #305
  6. TheJediBrah

    TheJediBrah Well-Known Member

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    anyone coud pick apart any film piece by piece lol

    And of course there's room for improvement. But pretty much everything in this thread that "needs to be fixed" is just people's personal opinions on what they didn't like, and if they were changed it wouldn't necessarily make the film better, just different.
     
    #306
  7. MessiahDecoy123

    MessiahDecoy123 Psychological Anarchist

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    It would make it a better Batman movie to some extent which is why those changes are considered desirable.
     
    #307
  8. TheJediBrah

    TheJediBrah Well-Known Member

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    Well, no, not necessarily. That's the point.

    It's a matter of opinion. They would be considered to "make it better" and be "desirable" by some people. Just as the exatc opposite could be considered to "make it better" and be "desirable" by others.
     
    #308
  9. regwec

    regwec Make Mine Marble

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    I don't think anyone is under the impression that they are being asked for anything other than their opinion, JediBrah.
     
    #309
  10. TheJediBrah

    TheJediBrah Well-Known Member

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    I know, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the thread.

    I was just commenting on how the thread title stating that things needed to be "fixed" has implications that have resulted in initiation of heated arguments.

    Then someone started arguing with me.

    *shrugs*
     
    #310
  11. MessiahDecoy123

    MessiahDecoy123 Psychological Anarchist

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    You consider the debates in this thread ”heated”?

    and most of the debate comes from defensive Nolan fans. Should people who think the franchise needs improvement bite our tongue for them or use terminology that only suggest Nolan's trilogy was flawless?
     
    #311
    Last edited: May 25, 2013
  12. TheJediBrah

    TheJediBrah Well-Known Member

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    Hey man I'm not trying to start a fight lol, there's nothing wrong with talking about what you want changed, I was just making a minor observation.
     
    #312
  13. MessiahDecoy123

    MessiahDecoy123 Psychological Anarchist

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    Oh okay.

    Nice user name, brah. :yay:
     
    #313
  14. BatmanGoesToRio

    BatmanGoesToRio Well-Known Member

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    This. :applaud
    I couldn't take another Batman film with another "Gotham has to be destrrroyed" plot.
     
    #314
  15. Anno_Domini

    Anno_Domini Well-Known Member

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    Why only those?

    How about the faction that wants to see a great Batman film that doesn't need to be compared to any of Nolan's Batfilms?
     
    #315
  16. Leetank

    Leetank Battlecruiser Operational

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    Though I love Noalns films very much, I think future batman could use more detective work, different villains, etc.
     
    #316
  17. ThDWgeek

    ThDWgeek Well-Known Member

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    They could use the grapple like the Arkham games did. Use it to get up high and accentuate the gliding rather than swing between streets.
     
    #317
  18. Squaremaster316

    Squaremaster316 Well-Known Member

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    This.

    These films were as close to perfection as you are ever going to get out of the genre.
     
    #318
  19. MessiahDecoy123

    MessiahDecoy123 Psychological Anarchist

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  20. MessiahDecoy123

    MessiahDecoy123 Psychological Anarchist

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    There's plenty of room for improvement.

    Unless you think Batman should be a realistic concept/world then I guess it can't get better than Nolan but it doesn't take much imagination to realize the Batman world has plenty of untapped potential artistically.
     
    #320
  21. regwec

    regwec Make Mine Marble

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    Even if you do favour the 'toned down' approach, you must have been disappointed by all the flagrantly unrealistic stuff in the Nolan movies.

    To say that any movie is 'perfect' rather implies that you don't really have an opinion about it. I refuse to believe that anybody can have tastes or preferences that are entirely identical with anybody else's. Even if you think Nolan's overall approach was inspired, you must have found a few things which you would prefer if they were done differently.
     
    #321
  22. jonathancrane

    jonathancrane I love Marvel, DC & EC!

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    My Next 5

    6. Soundtrack. Zimmer is great, but they need a new sound for the next film. I would prefer they avoid Elfman a well, and create a very unique soundtrack.
    7. Retire the Black suits. After six films, it is time to create a new color arrangement for the costume, as well a design. Some blue would be welcomed.
    8. Avoid arcs that have already been done. In short, avoid using the following title as source material as they have already been drained btw. Nolan and Burton: Year One, The Long Halloween, Dark Victory, The Dark Knight Returns, The Killing Joke , Knightfall, and No Man's Land (which would work better as a tv series anyway, as TDKR took what I call snapshots from it.)
    9. Open up the world to other heroes. Seven films in and the closest they've come to acknowledging a shared universe is a line about Superman working alone. Have the Question make an appearance like Green Arrow did in The Dark Knight Returns. Or something simple, to really hit home how awesome the DC universe is; one of my favorite moments from the considerably flawed Hush was when Bruce and Elliot were hanging out and saw one of the older Green Lanterns fighting a villain in Metropolis (I think.) Moments such as those do not require an hour of screen time contextualization.
    10. Villains. I know the Joker is the yin-to-Bat's yang, so he should return in the second film. But, I do not want to see Freeze or Penguin as dominant villains in the next film, but, as side ones (if they have to be included.) I want the filmmakers to dive into the archives and bring someone who has never made it to the screen before. Clayface would be a step in the right direction; so would Hugo Strange (and have the dressing up as Batman subplot,) and a sprinkling of underlings including Deathstroke and Deadshot. The franchise needs a fresh creative team & willingness to depart from what has been done. Nolan's one of my favorite filmmakers (and TDKR is on my Top Ten film list,) but, I do not want another film with his aesthetic.
     
    #322
  23. doobie

    doobie Well-Known Member

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    I personally do not want the next series to be "anything goes" in terms of sci fi and fantasy the same as the comics/animation/games are.

    I would like the new films to have a different feel and look to the Nolan movies but to continue the tradition of trying to, if not be "realistic" at least make it feel as believable as possible. Describing the technology in enough detail so you feel it could exist in a spy-thriller world. In the way Ra's emitter, Batman's sonar, the Clean Slate were not really realistic but the film at least took them seriously enough so that you could suspend your disbelief and accept them existing in the film's world.

    For example I would like to see someone rise to the challenge of making Mr Freeze look as believable and modern as the Nolan villains were, as opposed to saying "forget it, it's full on sci fi now, he can have his faithful animated series suit".
     
    #323
  24. Squaremaster316

    Squaremaster316 Well-Known Member

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    Nothing needs to be fixed, it just needs to be different and distinct (to a certain extent).
     
    #324
  25. MessiahDecoy123

    MessiahDecoy123 Psychological Anarchist

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    Do you consider Arkham City "anything goes" in terms of sci-fi and fantasy?

    I thought it was a good balance between BTAS, classic comics and Nolan-verse.
     
    #325

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