Justice League Zack Snyder Directing Justice League - Part 4

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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]527165[/split]

 

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]524597[/split]

 

[BatLand]

The issue with Batman is that even after his Martha epiphany he still straight up murdered a bunch of people. Including stabbing a guy in the chest.

There was a conflict between the thematics and what was actually portrayed on screen.

He didn't stab a guy in the chest. He stabbed him in the shoulder.

He did however shoot a bunch of guys with his turrets from the Batwing.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

I just know there were an awful lot of NOT rubber bullets blowing up all kinds of ****, and besides the fact that it was Batman, it was glorious.

 

[idiot09]

What was interesting, is that in the film, the only time he ever shoots at the enemy, is when they are shooting at him first. I mean those goons were straight up machine gunning his batplane. He even gave them some warning shots.

He could have straight up gunned down all the thugs at the warehouse too, full John Wick/Punisher style. He didnt, he engaged in hand to hand combat, when it was 24 to 1. I saw it as an eye to eye thing. You shoot at me, I shoot back. You stab me in the shoulder, I stab you back mofo.

Plus it was a time crunch situation, and he had to save her AT ALL costs. We see how he is rehabilated(it doesnt happen overnight), and decides not to brand Luthor. So yeah, the thematics and what was portrayed do line up.

 

[Micromind]

What was interesting, is that in the film, the only time he ever shoots at the enemy, is when they are shooting at him first. I mean those goons were straight up machine gunning his batplane. He even gave them some warning shots.

He could have straight up gunned down all the thugs at the warehouse too, full John Wick/Punisher style. He didnt, he engaged in hand to hand combat, when it was 24 to 1. I saw it as an eye to eye thing. You shoot at me, I shoot back. You stab me in the shoulder, I stab you back mofo.

Plus it was a time crunch situation, and he had to save her AT ALL costs. We see how he is rehabilated(it doesnt happen overnight), and decides not to brand Luthor. So yeah, the thematics and what was portrayed do line up.

Exactly, which is why I mentioned in my earlier post that he was slowing descending into Punisher mode, not that he had already become one.

Even in the warehouse fight, we can see that most of the time he is using hand to hand combat to tackle the thugs, who are actually mercenaries, who are determined to kill Batman at any cost.

Still, Batman doesn't kill them all, in fact most of them are alive towards the end of the fight, though they are seriously crippled.

 

[idiot09]

Exactly, which is why I mentioned in my earlier post that he was slowing descending into Punisher mode, not that he had already become one.

Even in the warehouse fight, we can see that most of the time he is using hand to hand combat to tackle the thugs, who are actually mercenaries, who are determined to kill Batman at any cost.

Still, Batman doesn't kill them all, in fact most of them are alive towards the end of the fight, though they are seriously crippled.

Yeah like Alfred said..."New Rules".

I'm pretty sure he will be in a more stable mental condition in Justice League(though still mourning Superman), and will tone down his more violent tendencies.

 

[Micromind]

Which brings me to this point, the Batman we are going to see in JL has already begun his journey of returning to his usual self, back to how he was, at the time when there were no superheroes, no aliens and when Robin was still alive.

We don't move from BvS directly to JL, we have to take into account how Batman was shown in Suicide Squad, when he was seen on the rooftop of Joker's Car, when he saves Harley Quinn (transformed Dr. Harleen Quinzel) from drowning.

 

[markjoedelonge]

Which brings me to this point, the Batman we are going to see in JL has already begun his journey of returning to his usual self, back to how he was, at the time when there were no superheroes, no aliens and when Robin was still alive.

We don't move from BvS directly to JL, we have to take into account how Batman was shown in Suicide Squad, when he was seen on the rooftop of Joker's Car, when he saves Harley Quinn (transformed Dr. Harleen Quinzel) from drowning.

I thought we already glimpsed his return to normal in SS.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

I think Batman refraining from branding Luthor is supposed to signal his return to his old self.

(although the way it's directed, it comes across more like..."Keep pushing it, and I'll brand your ass!")

 

[idiot09]

Which brings me to this point, the Batman we are going to see in JL has already begun his journey of returning to his usual self, back to how he was, at the time when there were no superheroes, no aliens and when Robin was still alive.

I'd love a line from Alfred where he ask Bruce if he should remove the Robin suit since things have changed, and Bruce just looks at him with tired eyes and says "Nothing's changed".

 

[markjoedelonge]

I think Batman refraining from branding Luthor is supposed to signal his return to his old self.

(although the way it's directed, it comes across more like..."Keep pushing it, and I'll brand your ass!")

Yeah I agree that it signaled his return to himself.

 

[Polux]

A little thing I noticed and mentioned before, is that during the batmobile scene he would shoot their cars and stuff without looking back, just moving straight forward while trashing them; when shooting down the mercenaries shooting at him before getting in the warehouse, he looks back after the fact...there's a little bit of contemplation.

He's not gonna reflect on his brutal ways right away (particularly when the time is of pressure), but he's starting to realize it.

It's a subtle thing, and I liked it.

 

[Da-Scribe]

I feel like it's been made really clear that Snyder isn't into the immediate payoff in terms of character building. He treated these films very episodically and I think his intent was always to get the characters to a certain point in JL, at least with respect to the Trinity. So it's not a shock to me that Batman didn't immediately stop killing after the Martha scene. He's in recovery and that takes time. A high pressure hostage situation probably isn't gonna be the place where any human being starts making all the right decisions.

 

[random_havoc]

I think you guys are giving Snyder WAY too much credit. I think he just wanted to have Batman be violent and murder a bunch of people and didn't care that that is completely antithetical to the version of the character that most people are familiar with and love.

 

[misslane38]

I think you guys are giving Snyder WAY too much credit. I think he just wanted to have Batman be violent and murder a bunch of people and didn't care that that is completely antithetical to the version of the character that most people are familiar with and love.

If he didn't care, then why did his film explicitly have several so-called good guys criticize Batman for his bad behavior? Alfred and Clark both do not hold their tongues in front of Bruce. Batman is shown to first use the brand and then choose not to with Lex. You believe this was unintentional? You believe Snyder didn't intend to direct a film in which Batman's descent into cruel new rules was a set up for a redemption story? Really?

 

[idiot09]

I think you guys are giving Snyder WAY too much credit. I think he just wanted to have Batman be violent and murder a bunch of people and didn't care that that is completely antithetical to the version of the character that most people are familiar with and love.

Then he wouldnt have had Batman give the whole men are still good "apology/Ill be better" speech.

Its YOU who is not giving Snyder enough credit.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Lol, not even gonna bother with that one.

 

[Limonade]

Then he wouldnt have had Batman give the whole men are still good "apology/Ill be better" speech.

Its YOU who is not giving Snyder enough credit.

Glass half-full/half empty argument.

It's not going to go anywhere.

 

[Polux]

Plenty of posts here are not really worth replying to; you guys shouldn't sweat it.

 

[Nemeres]

They seemed to be tying an awkward knot with how Batman's means related to Clark's reporter crusade from earlier. It's like the murder-filled Martha rescue vindicated the need for brutality while negating Clark's umbrage with his methods -- the only thing he had, earlier on, shown any conviction towards. Only to pass Superman the moral torch again just a few minutes later and concluding the film w that. The plot, with how it divides its beats, has a few turns too many for its own message to be fully effective, imo.

 

[markjoedelonge]

I think you guys are giving Snyder WAY too much credit. I think he just wanted to have Batman be violent and murder a bunch of people and didn't care that that is completely antithetical to the version of the character that most people are familiar with and love.

This is just willful ignorance.

 

[Arachnerd]

I think you guys are giving Snyder WAY too much credit. I think he just wanted to have Batman be violent and murder a bunch of people and didn't care that that is completely antithetical to the version of the character that most people are familiar with and love.

Or maybe people just have different views than you. That is also a possibility.

Not to mention there have been versions of Batman over the years where he's been violent and he has killed people. The point of Bruce being this way in BvS has a point. It's not one everyone's fine or agrees with, that's understandable, but I seriously doubt his storyarc in BvS had as little substance as you claim it has.

 

[MadderMaximus]

Or maybe people just have different views than you. That is also a possibility.

Not to mention there have been versions of Batman over the years where he's been violent and he has killed people. The point of Bruce being this way in BvS has a point. It's not one everyone's fine or agrees with, that's understandable, but I seriously doubt his storyarc in BvS had as little substance as you claim it has.

*claps*

 

[The Endless]

Bruce did lose his way. I thought it was pretty clear.

But again, after his epiphany, after he realised Superman is no longer a threat because he has a mother... he still brutally murdered a bunch of people.

There is a clear dissonance between the thematics and the narrative. It's common with most of Snyder's films. These problems do exist. It's not like 90% of viewers are idiots and you guys are a small minority of geniuses who "get it".