Justice League Zack Snyder Directing Justice League - Part 8

[Erzengel]

Yeah and BvS made more than WW, but just like the comparison you made above, thats not fair in any way. I compared every movie on their own merits. None of the them were runaway hits like WW, but it wasnt a flop franchise by any standards. It just needed tweaking into a more GA friendly direction.

According to this deadline article, they estimate MOS making a $42.7M profit, I wouldn't necessarily call it good money. Again, maybe I'm just arguing semantics.

 

[The Joker]

According to this deadline article, they estimate MOS making a $42.7M profit, I wouldn't necessarily call it good money. Again, maybe I'm just arguing semantics.

If that's true then that is a laughable profit.

 

[Jekecy]

Yeah and BvS made more than WW, but just like the comparison you made above, thats not fair in any way. I compared every movie on their own merits. None of the them were runaway hits like WW, but it wasnt a flop franchise by any standards. It just needed tweaking into a more GA friendly direction.

There is something to be said of failing on a bigger stage however. BvS made a ton of money, but that also meant a wider audience saw firsthand a highly anticipated DC film not meet their expectation. Those after-effects are going to linger for at least several more films featuring Batman or Supes, I suspect.

Even a full-on reboot nearly a decade later, in Batman Begins, couldn't combat the stench of Schumacher's doing. Home video saved Nolan's series early on.

 

[STARMAN]

Out of 5 DC movies, Wonder Woman is the only unequivocal success.

 

[kguillou]

I know this may sound silly but sometimes I do wonder if Schumacher was really the reason Batman Begins performed modestly. Maybe Batman as a brand in general wasnt as red hot at the time in the wake of Spiderman and the Xmen setting the world on fire. But i dont think audiences saw previews of Batman Begins and thought "ugghh not more of that campy crap from 8 years ago..."

It could have been the movie just wasnt as heavily promoted too.

 

[Erzengel]

Out of 5 DC movies, Wonder Woman is the only unequivocal success.

According to Deadline, WW's profit is about the same as the profit from SS and BvS combined. And technically, you can add MOS and JL, since JL lost money.

 

[Jekecy]

I know this may sound silly but sometimes I do wonder if Schumacher was really the reason Batman Begins performed modestly. Maybe Batman as a brand in general wasnt as red hot at the time in the wake of Spiderman and the Xmen setting the world on fire. But i dont think audiences saw previews of Batman Begins and thought "ugghh not more of that campy crap from 8 years ago..."

It was. I saw it first hand when I watched The Village at a packed house opening weekend, which is where the BB teaser made its debut. You know what happened when the flashes of Batman and the logo appeared at the end? A mixture of absolute silence, some snickers, and a row of teens right behind me even laughed at "ANOTHER Batman movie?".

Worst birthday ever.

 

[kguillou]

It was. I saw it first hand when I watched The Village at a packed house opening weekend, which is where the BB teaser made its debut. You know what happened when the flashes of Batman and the logo appeared at the end? A mixture of absolute silence, some snickers, and a row of teens right behind me even laughed at "ANOTHER Batman movie?".

Worst birthday ever.

Wow. Well, I stand corrected then. Damn. I would think Nolan's tone and vibe would tell audiences "this aint no Schumacher."

 

[idiot09]

According to this deadline article, they estimate MOS making a $42.7M profit, I wouldn't necessarily call it good money. Again, maybe I'm just arguing semantics.

The accuracy of that article(with it not taking into account the promotional advertisement money that MOS apparently got around $150M of), has always been debated. I'm not going into that again.

I know this may sound silly but sometimes I do wonder if Schumacher was really the reason Batman Begins performed modestly. Maybe Batman as a brand in general wasnt as red hot at the time in the wake of Spiderman and the Xmen setting the world on fire. But i dont think audiences saw previews of Batman Begins and thought "ugghh not more of that campy crap from 8 years ago..."

It could have been the movie just wasnt as heavily promoted too.

Same with Returns and MOS to some extent as well. MOS did quite well all things considered. Anyway...

Back to Zack. Apparently news of his fountainhead short series is coming soon. So probably TLP is going to be his next film.

 

[STARMAN]

According to Deadline, WW's profit is about the same as the profit from SS and BvS combined. And technically, you can add MOS and JL, since JL lost money.

Wonder Woman received excellent reviews, great word of mouth. Opening at 103 million and reaching 400 million domestic is terrific. Not all final totals are the same. 821 million globally is more impressive for WW than 874 for BvS, especially in how they reached their respective numbers. Most importantly, is the overall positive reception. I'm not talking Rotten Tomatoes, I'm talking about the overall response and the positive effect it has on the brand.

 

[random_havoc]

Man of Steel had a good audience reception, made good money, and brought back Superman into the fore front again for a modern audience. Had mixed critical reaction.

BvS made a lot of money. Audience and critic reception was not good and it could have made more. UC redeemed it somewhat.

SS was a huge BO success. It was a hit with audiences, but not with critics.

WW was a huge BO success, and was a hit with both audiences and critics.

JL was a BO disaster, had lukewarm audience reception, and bad critic reaction. It failed on like every level.

People like to paint the whole DCEU before WW like it was a complete failure, but it wasnt, far from it. JL has been the only complete failure so far. DCEU needed to retain its audience and push it in a more mainstream direction, like WW did, not do a complete 180 like JL did. That was their mistake.

I think your rise colored glasses might have a few smudges on them

 

[_Superman_]

WW also happened during the perfect storm with the #Me Too movement.

 

[STARMAN]

Superman Returns did not hurt Man of Steel. MOS set the June box office opening record. Audiences came that opening week ready to embrace Superman again. It is a testament to the marketing and the love of the character.

 

[kguillou]

Yeah, I mean, did Schumacher have some affect? Sure. Maybe a little. Maybe there were people still bitter about B&R. But, if I recall correctly, I think BB wasnt that heavily marketed, so awareness and hype for it was very tame and therefore the box office followed suit. WB heavily promoted Man of Steel and it was like an event, "The return of Superman." I think WB may have been hedging their bets with BB back in '05.

 

[_Superman_]

Superman Returns did not hurt Man of Steel. MOS set the June box office opening record. Audiences came that opening week ready to embrace Superman again. It is a testament to the marketing and the love of the character.

Really the argument could be made that Superman Returns box office would've been much better had WB just moved the movie up two weeks so that it didn't compete with POTC.

 

[2kt09]

Yeah, I mean, did Schumacher have some affect? Sure. Maybe a little. Maybe there were people still bitter about B&R. But, if I recall correctly, I think BB wasnt that heavily marketed, so awareness and hype for it was very tame and therefore the box office followed suit. WB heavily promoted Man of Steel and it was like an event, "The return of Superman." I think WB may have been hedging their bets with BB back in '05.

BB also had to follow up Catwoman if people were burnt out by Batman-related movies.
Returns was a case of people wanting something new out of Superman.

 

[Micromind]

The accuracy of that article(with it not taking into account the promotional advertisement money that MOS apparently got around $150M of), has always been debated. I'm not going into that again.

Agreed.

 

[STARMAN]

The narrative around Batman Begins box office changed from the beginning of the summer to the end of the summer. The opening was considered a disappointment, blaming both Batman and Robin as well as the marketing light on action. There was even an article saying Batman is no longer amazing at the box office and can't match Spider-Man.


BB opened mid-week so the numbers are a little diluted when mentioning the opening weekend. By the end of the summer, it's box office was considered solid, praised for it's holds and managing to cross 200 million. More importantly, the overall response was positive and the studio was happy to see Batman creatively at a good place and a perfect launching pad for the film that followed. Not the same for Superman Returns and the overall response it received.


Zack and the marketing team did a great job differentiating itself from Superman Returns. The last thing on people's minds that opening weekend were Brandon Routh and Kate Bosworth.

 

[_Superman_]

The narrative around Batman Begins box office changed from the beginning of the summer to the end of the summer. The opening was considered a disappointment, blaming both Batman and Robin as well as the marketing light on action. There was even an article saying Batman is no longer amazing at the box office and can't match Spider-Man.


BB opened mid-week so the numbers are a little diluted when mentioning the opening weekend. By the end of the summer, it's box office was considered solid, praised for it's holds and managing to cross 200 million. More importantly, the overall response was positive and the studio was happy to see Batman creatively at a good place and a perfect launching pad for the film that followed. Not the same for Superman Returns and the overall response it received.


Zack and the marketing team did a great job differentiating itself from Superman Returns. The last thing on people's minds that opening weekend were Brandon Routh and Kate Bosworth.

Superman Returns got the same reception by the fans as MOS did. The only thing different was the critics liked SR more. Returns probably would've had a better box office return if it opened up 1 to 2 weeks earlier than it did.

 

[STARMAN]

The point is Superman Returns did not harm Man of Steel's box office. Credit to Zack, the WB marketing team, and the power of Superman.

 

[Jekecy]

The point is Superman Returns did not harm Man of Steel's box office. Credit to Zack, the WB marketing team, and the power of Superman.

If anything it's a testament to Superman's brand that people of this generation were still itching for his moment in the spotlight, despite a middling return. I don't know if they'll be as welcoming the next time WB attempts to revise his image though.

 

[kguillou]

Also, I think the controversy surrounding the film's tone and climax helped MoS. Ive heard a lot of ppl on this forum and elsewhere who did not like the movie yet still saw it multiple times because i guess they just needed to process what they saw.

 

[markjoedelonge]

[YT]2ptL82K7td8[/YT]

 

[kguillou]

And all of those letters are goin straight to the shredder once they hit Burbank. Its a nice gesture but I think these guys need to let it go at this point. This is clinging at very very small straws here.

 

[idiot09]

And all of those letters are goin straight to the shredder once they hit Burbank. Its a nice gesture but I think these guys need to let it go at this point. This is clinging at very very small straws here.

Probably true. I've moved on, so it doesnt bother me though. If people think they can make a difference, more power to them. I'm glad they are doing it.