Justice League Zack Snyder Directing Justice League - Part 8

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And for me, there were so many little small details that made a difference for me. Little bits of dialogue. For example, when Batman's headed to the warehouse and he's talking to Alfred, the UC added a bit of banter where Batman says "I dont deserve you, Alfred," to which Alfred glibly replies, "no, sir, you do not." Its a small thing and yet seeing that bit of classic Batman/Alfred repartee which was sorely missing in the movie brought a smile to my face. It was also a sign of Bruce slowly returning back to his old self.
 
And for me, there were so many little small details that made a difference for me. Little bits of dialogue. For example, when Batman's headed to the warehouse and he's talking to Alfred, the UC added a bit of banter where Batman says "I dont deserve you, Alfred," to which Alfred glibly replies, "no, sir, you do not." Its a small thing and yet seeing that bit of classic Batman/Alfred repartee which was sorely missing in the movie brought a smile to my face. It was also a sign of Bruce slowly returning back to his old self.

One of my favourite small details was Martha waving at the Batplane and smiling after Batman rescues her.
 
I just want DC to continue doing out of the box things. Ok, fine. Zack's approach wasnt the financial success they wanted but at least they tried. A 3 hour R rated Superman/Batman film wasnt what audiences were demanding in 2016 but I'm glad they did it because I have always wanted a 3 hour superhero epic that was maybe geared more towards an older demographic (I'm nit counting Watchmen). Now, we'll never see anything like that again but at least those of us who liked it have this thing we can enjoy and go back to.

Man, how much more tragic would it have been if WB buried Zack's original BvS cut as well and we were stuck with the TC?

It's not mutually exclusive. Look at the Dark Knight. It's not because BvS was an adult movie that it didn't do well financially, it's because most people think it sucks
 
Yeah it wasn't that it was too "mature," it's that its attempt at maturity came across as juvenile and/or contrived to a lot of people (which is common with Snyder films). ANY installment of Nolan's TDKT had more maturity in its bones than BvS ever did, imo, and it did just fine with the masses.
 
I have heard that complaint, but I also have heard the "too dark, too adult" complaints as well.

I dont think TDK is any more or less "mature" than BvS. Both dealt with serious topics, and treated them with respect without undercutting them with humor or frivolity. TDK had a serious tone, while BvS had more of a melancholic tone. Which is fine in my book, as the tone fit the story. MOS had a similar tone to TDKT imo.
 
Moving away from discussions about BvS which have been done to death...

I've seen Ray Fisher say recently that his frontrunner for the director of the solo Cyborg film would be Zack Snyder, if he was ever to do a DC Film again.

As much as I love Zack and Ray, I would pass on that. I would rather someone like Famuyiwa take on Cyborg(still maintain Dope was amazing, and removing him from Flash was a major major blunder), and would love to see Ray be the lead in Zack's next non CBM film. As for CBMs, if Zack was to return, I would rather he take on an elseworld project.

More suited to his sensibilities, and he gets away from the "not muh" crowd.
 
Yeah, it would be cool to see Ray Fisher in a Zack Snyder movie, preferably a non cbm.
 
I think its safe to say Zack's cbm days are over anyway. Heck, Im not even sure he'll be working for WB anymore. Whatever happened between him and the studio sounds real ugly and you could feel the bitterness from him.
 
And for me, there were so many little small details that made a difference for me. Little bits of dialogue. For example, when Batman's headed to the warehouse and he's talking to Alfred, the UC added a bit of banter where Batman says "I dont deserve you, Alfred," to which Alfred glibly replies, "no, sir, you do not." Its a small thing and yet seeing that bit of classic Batman/Alfred repartee which was sorely missing in the movie brought a smile to my face. It was also a sign of Bruce slowly returning back to his old self.

One of my favourite small details was Martha waving at the Batplane and smiling after Batman rescues her.

Speaking of little things that mean a lot...

One of my favorite moments, but with context: During the Batmobile chase, when he's gunning and mowing down his prey, he never looks back as he drives straight through the wreckage of a exploding car, he's driven in one single direction and he has dehumanized his prey since all that matter is the single goal (in this case, the Kryptonite, to "stop the thread"); after his shock/awakening and promise to save Martha, while he guns down the people with machine guns shooting at him at the warehouse, he looks back.

Hesitation, contemplation, remorse.

He still does what's necessary, but there's something different this time...

See, it's the little things for me.

Moving away from discussions about BvS which have been done to death...

I've seen Ray Fisher say recently that his frontrunner for the director of the solo Cyborg film would be Zack Snyder, if he was ever to do a DC Film again.

As much as I love Zack and Ray, I would pass on that. I would rather someone like Famuyiwa take on Cyborg(still maintain Dope was amazing, and removing him from Flash was a major major blunder), and would love to see Ray be the lead in Zack's next non CBM film. As for CBMs, if Zack was to return, I would rather he take on an elseworld project.

More suited to his sensibilities, and he gets away from the "not muh" crowd.

My biggest wish that will never happen now, would've been Zack Snyder's "New Gods".

I think its safe to say Zack's cbm days are over anyway. Heck, Im not even sure he'll be working for WB anymore. Whatever happened between him and the studio sounds real ugly and you could feel the bitterness from him.

I'm certainly curious about this, since his next project is "The Fountainhead" is WB has the rights to that one.

Also, people really keep thinking that things within studio projects are run as simplistic as bloggers want to make them out to be; there's lots of people involved in each one of these projects and sometimes things don't go as expected and it doesn't mean that the people involved are at each other's throats yelling "Traitor!!!", sometimes it could be like "alright, we ****ed up there, let's try not to make this mistake again".

Again, I haven't produced any Hollywood movie, but I seriously doubt that people adopting the "you betrayed me! I will never work with you again!!" make it anywhere in Hollywood....being childish doesn't pay in big business (unless your name is Trump, of course :o )
 
Speaking of little things that mean a lot...

One of my favorite moments, but with context: During the Batmobile chase, when he's gunning and mowing down his prey, he never looks back as he drives straight through the wreckage of a exploding car, he's driven in one single direction and he has dehumanized his prey since all that matter is the single goal (in this case, the Kryptonite, to "stop the thread"); after his shock/awakening and promise to save Martha, while he guns down the people with machine guns shooting at him at the warehouse, he looks back.

Hesitation, contemplation, remorse.

He still does what's necessary, but there's something different this time...


See, it's the little things for me.

Damn, I always wondered why he gave that look. I like your interpretation!
 
Moving away from discussions about BvS which have been done to death...

I've seen Ray Fisher say recently that his frontrunner for the director of the solo Cyborg film would be Zack Snyder, if he was ever to do a DC Film again.

As much as I love Zack and Ray, I would pass on that. I would rather someone like Famuyiwa take on Cyborg(still maintain Dope was amazing, and removing him from Flash was a major major blunder), and would love to see Ray be the lead in Zack's next non CBM film. As for CBMs, if Zack was to return, I would rather he take on an elseworld project.

More suited to his sensibilities, and he gets away from the "not muh" crowd.
I'd be happy with Snyder or Famuyiwa doing a Cyborg film, but I doubt they are coming back. I doubt we're even getting a Cyborg film now, which is a huge shame, I want to see more of Fisher. Looking forward to seeing him in True Detective.
 
Actually no I didnt like the TC. I didnt HATE it but I was really disappointed and frustrated by it. The way the editing chopped up the film really bothered me and I felt so lost by the climax of the film that I couldnt even find myself to care what was happening when Bats and Supes came to blows. I was fine with the tone but, again, the film's structure was one of the messiest things ive ever seen in a mainstream released film and it killed the movie for me.

I may be a minority but the UC was a completely different experience for me. The movie just...flowed and flowed wonderfully for me. Every scene felt like it could breathe and plot points that didnt make sense before now made sense. And, yes, seeing more Clark Kent reporter scenes made me smile and made the movie seem evenly divided between Bruce and Clark. I dunno, for me the TC and UC are night and day experiences even if there really arent and major changes to the story or plot. But the clarity of key plot points, better narrative flow and more Clark Kent and Superman made me turn my feeling for the movie from "dislike" to "really like."

You're likely in the minority but you're not alone. I've heard others here say their impressions changed drastically by the UE.

I think the UE is certainly a better movie for the reasons you mention, specifically with pacing, but it only made me more frustrated with the situation as a whole. That scene where he calls his mom in the middle of the night to ask her why Pa Kent never left Kansas is probably my single favorite moment from Cavill's Superman and it would've gone a long way to see that in theaters.
 
You're likely in the minority but you're not alone. I've heard others here say their impressions changed drastically by the UE.

I think the UE is certainly a better movie for the reasons you mention, specifically with pacing, but it only made me more frustrated with the situation as a whole. That scene where he calls his mom in the middle of the night to ask her why Pa Kent never left Kansas is probably my single favorite moment from Cavill's Superman and it would've gone a long way to see that in theaters.

Agreed. In retrospect, it was really insulting to Henry Cavill that they elected to cut all of his character development scenes from the film in favor of Ben/Batman. He had to have been real pissed off about that, he was one of the main stars of the movie.
 
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Agreed. In retrospect, it was really insulting to Henry Cavill that they elected to cut all of his character development scenes from the film in favor of Ben/Batman. He had to have been real pissed off about that.
Agreed which is why the Ultimate cut is really the Superman cut. It's a shame they did that but it was only the start of things to come.
 
I disagree. I think it could be any character/s. Depends on the story and the ambition of the storyteller.
I don't think TDK, or any of the Avengers movies would have made the money that they did if they were R Rated.

$800 to even $900M? Sure.
 
Agreed. In retrospect, it was really insulting to Henry Cavill that they elected to cut all of his character development scenes from the film in favor of Ben/Batman. He had to have been real pissed off about that, he was one of the main stars of the movie.

Given this and then what happened to him in JL, I'm not surprised Cavill is being more demanding in contract negotiations.
 
I don't think TDK, or any of the Avengers movies would have made the money that they did if they were R Rated.

$800 to even $900M? Sure.
Lol. I can imagine...

Loki: "And who are you?"
Tony Stark: "We're the @#$% Avengers, you %@#$!"
 
You're likely in the minority but you're not alone. I've heard others here say their impressions changed drastically by the UE.

I think the UE is certainly a better movie for the reasons you mention, specifically with pacing, but it only made me more frustrated with the situation as a whole. That scene where he calls his mom in the middle of the night to ask her why Pa Kent never left Kansas is probably my single favorite moment from Cavill's Superman and it would've gone a long way to see that in theaters.

I really liked that moment. It really humanised Clark. Reaching out for comfort from his mother. The other moment that always gets to me is when Pa Kent says "I miss you, son" and he replies "I miss you too Dad".
 
Speaking of, I've always wondered if there was more to the "you dont owe this world a thing" conversation. Even in the UE the scene seems incomplete.
 
The thing the UE gives us is it makes Superman more human and shows us even Superman/Clark questions if he is going about things the right way.
 
I really liked that moment. It really humanised Clark. Reaching out for comfort from his mother.

Agreed. I also liked it so much because I just didn't expect him to ask that - I feel like most of his scenes are pretty by the numbers in that nothing he or anyone says is all that surprising, but calling his mom in the middle of the night to ask such a seemingly innocuous question really showed some genuine tenderness.
 
I have heard that complaint, but I also have heard the "too dark, too adult" complaints as well.

I dont think TDK is any more or less "mature" than BvS. Both dealt with serious topics, and treated them with respect without undercutting them with humor or frivolity. TDK had a serious tone, while BvS had more of a melancholic tone. Which is fine in my book, as the tone fit the story. MOS had a similar tone to TDKT imo.

I look at it, when people say it's a mature film, in the fact that they and i, for that matter, when say, choosing a super hero film for a 9 - 13 year old to watch (which let's be honest, they help the box office tremendously) wouldn't pick Batman Vs Superman over most of the marvel movies, as an example, as it doesn't have enough (or many) qualities for that demographic. I work with children and young adults - avengers wins hands down, it's usually the minority of the teenagers that go for DC and that's largely due to the morbid and weird of joker, Harley etc and then again, it's those that shop at hot topic and just like the look. MOS was obviously a good attempt, it was popular but yeah, after that, people just kinda went 'meh' at BvS.
That, is from my own personal experience.
 
I think we're forgetting the very important x factor here which likely soured a lot of people on the tone. Superman. Superman, like Spider-man, is inherently associated with light, colorful, bright, smiley, John Williams, whimsical etc. That is how Superman has been seen in the cultural zeitgeist since his inception and thats what people expect from Superman related media. People expect darkness and violence and grittiness out of Batman but BvS is Batman AND Superman and I think most people expected a movie that depicted their two worlds in stark contrast. Gotham being dark, gloomy, gritty, rainy, with menacing foreboding music playing as we see Batman stalk the streets at night while Metropolis is perpetually sunny, brighter with more uplifting music playing as Superman takes to the skies. We expected a movie with two different tones coming to a clash.

Zack didn't give us that. Instead of showing the dichotomy of the two characters in the aforementioned way, he wanted to show both characters in conflict and inner turmoil as a result of the changing world around them. Batman being angry and bitter at the existence of aliens who could destroy the world and theres not a damn thing he could do to stop them. And Superman being melancholic because the world is not responding to him in a positive manner and he's reevaluating if he did the right thing by going public. And the thing is this story is played with a very, very serious, straight face. This is what people were responding to when saying it was "too dark,serious etc." For Batman, its expected, but for SUPERMAN, maybe not so much.
 
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