Justice League Zack Snyder Directing Justice League (The Snyder Cut Edition) - Part 2

[The Lazarus Pit]

I don’t want Batgirl and Supergirl to take the place of Batman and Superman in an eventual JL film. That really just sounds like dogshirt.

 

[chintai80]

I don’t want Batgirl and Supergirl to take the place of Batman and Superman in an eventual JL film. That really just sounds like dog****.

personally, i would love to see more batgirl and supergirl content, but is wb really having them take the place of the world's finest for JL films?

it would seem odd.

 

[MbJ]

Eh. The second best Justice League run starred the likes of Guy Gardner, Booster Gold and Blue Beetle, so the idea of Supergirl in the Justice League isn't all that far fetched to me. Besides there'll still be Batman movies, just not Affleck's since he's made it clear numerous times now he's done with the part.

I'd like Henry to at least return though, even as it becomes less and less likely the more time passes. Unlike Ben he still obviously wants to be involved.

 

[Aurakles]

I'm not opposed to it in principle.
Heck, Superman and Batman were absent from a lot of the early JL stories, like the very first one where they fight Starro,

 

[Lily Adler]

personally, i would love to see more batgirl and supergirl content, but is wb really having them take the place of the world's finest for JL films?

it would seem odd.

I honestly don't think there will be anymore JL films anytime soon. I think they're going to reboot the World's Finest starting with Black Superman and wait and see how Reeves Batman does.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Regardless of my personal opinion on the man's films themselves or the fanbase around them, at the end of the day he got done dirty in the scummiest way possible, so him getting to have his cut released was an artistic victory I support.

He got paid how much to make two Superman movies, and you think he got "done dirty"? He has a cult that he has admitted to willingly manipulating into making more cash. He was given the keys to the Superman kingdom and decided that Superman was not "adult" or "interesting" enough.

The people who got done dirty, are Superman fans. Those who love the character because of who he is. So please, save the "scummiest way possible" stuff. There was no earthly realm where they were going to release a 4 hour JL film in theaters. They had to cut Endgame, a film from an actual successful series, down to three hours to release it. If you want to talk about people who were actually screwed, look at all the creatives out there, those that created these beloved characters, who actually got done dirty in terms of royalties.

 

[Dr.]

I think @MbJ was referring to the PR spin surrounding Snyder’s departure from Justice League. Clearly, WB wanted him gone. Initially, however, the matter was framed as the studio and Whedon supporting a fellow filmmaker during a horrific personal tragedy. Was this the “scummiest” thing to ever happen in Hollywood? Hardly. But it was mercenary and exploitive.

...If you want to talk about people who were actually screwed, look at all the creatives out there, those that created these beloved characters, who actually got done dirty in terms of royalties.

Among your many assertions, this particular one caught my eye. How did Snyder manage to deprive anyone of financial royalties?

 

[Aurakles]

He got paid how much to make two Superman movies, and you think he got "done dirty"? He has a cult that he has admitted to willingly manipulating into making more cash. He was given the keys to the Superman kingdom and decided that Superman was not "adult" or "interesting" enough.

The people who got done dirty, are Superman fans. Those who love the character because of who he is. So please, save the "scummiest way possible" stuff. There was no earthly realm where they were going to release a 4 hour JL film in theaters. They had to cut Endgame, a film from an actual successful series, down to three hours to release it. If you want to talk about people who were actually screwed, look at all the creatives out there, those that created these beloved characters, who actually got done dirty in terms of royalties.

Regarding making more cash, he didn't get paid any extra for ZSJL. The cash he's been "manipulating" out of the fans has been in the form of asking them to donate to a charity.
Personally I'm one of the Superman fans who loved his version of the character, I respect that you and a large number of others didn't, but it's worth remembering that we are not one homogenous group.
"Scummiest way possible" might have just been @MbJ being hyperbolic, but you are right that these companies have treated other worse, the abuses that seem to have been normalised in hollywood are grotesque.
However, releasing Joss Whedons version with Zack Snyders name on it, was a quite a scummy thing to do.

 

[DCnightwing23]

I honestly don't think there will be anymore JL films anytime soon. I think they're going to reboot the World's Finest starting with Black Superman and wait and see how Reeves Batman does.

I have doubts that Reeves will want his Batman and that unique world he's building with his Batman movies touching anything DCEU the way WB runs all of that - I think it'd be smarter to keep it as a standalone trilogy. But we'll have to see what seeds are planted in that regard, if any, once the movie releases.

 

[MbJ]

He got paid how much to make two Superman movies, and you think he got "done dirty"?

Listen, please don't try to start drama over this. If you've ever seen anything I've posted on here, you'll know I'm no fan of Snyder's movies. I'm just not. ZSJL is the one I enjoyed the most and even that isn't my ideal take on Superman. I'm not trying to argue he deserved the chance to continue making Superman movies or Justice League movies; I've argued the exact opposite in the past.

But yes, the way they went about it when they replaced him? I consider that scummy. They were absolutely under zero obligation to retain him after BVS underperformed, and I've said the smart thing would've been to wait, recalibrate and either shelve Justice League or redo it from the ground up. But the way they went about the reshoots by bringing in Whedon and then flagrantly lying about how Snyder handpicked him and approved of his vision (when in reality Whedon was a corporate pick to blatantly try to make Snyder's film more like the competition's more successful Avengers movies)? Yes, I consider that scummy, and I consider using the suicide of the man's daughter as a shield to be scummier.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Listen, please don't try to start drama over this. If you've ever seen anything I've posted on here, you'll know I'm no fan of Snyder's movies. I'm just not. ZSJL is the one I enjoyed the most and even that isn't my ideal take on Superman. I'm not trying to argue he deserved the chance to continue making Superman movies or Justice League movies; I've argued the exact opposite in the past.

But yes, the way they went about it when they replaced him? I consider that scummy. They were absolutely under zero obligation to retain him after BVS underperformed, and I've said the smart thing would've been to wait, recalibrate and either shelve Justice League or redo it from the ground up. But the way they went about the reshoots by bringing in Whedon and then flagrantly lying about how Snyder handpicked him and approved of his vision (when in reality Whedon was a corporate pick to blatantly try to make Snyder's film more like the competition's more successful Avengers movies)? Yes, I consider that scummy, and I consider using the suicide of the man's daughter as a shield to be scummier.

Your opinion on Snyder isn't what I am aruging about. You said it was "the scummiest way". This was so overtly hyperbolic and divorced from reality, that I commented on it. Consider some perspective. He's a privileged dude who had a privileged position, that made him a crap ton of money. He failed, twice. He then produced a third movie they saw as un-releasable, which considering it had very little actual traction with it's release, proves them correct.

Everything they said about JL was to cover for Snyder. If they were honest and said, "we brought in Joss to fix it because it sucked" do you think that would have gone over well? That if they said nothing, there would have been a better reaction then what we got? I think we all know that isn't the case. Clearly after what happened with MoS and BvS, they decided they'd have final cut rights and they would use them. They did and tried to do so, without trashing Snyder. Which is the professional thing to do. But Snyder and his cult couldn't let it go. They had to turn it into a war on him. That it was the worst thing ever. That it was somehow "the scummiest way". Which I am pointing out, is BS. Because it is. There are real example in the same realm of actually scummy practices, that don't involve a dude of privilege making millions of dollars to sink a franchise.

So yes, your point was terrible. Warner went out of their way to cover for the man's folly. Trying to protect him isn't scummy, it's professional. The reaction of his cult has proven that no matter how they handled it, it would have been some sort of holy war on his art. Even now, as they ignore that fanbase and quietly move on, we have bad place over it. So yeah, you're completely wrong.

 

[MbJ]

Your opinion on Snyder isn't what I am aruging about. You said it was "the scummiest way". This was so overtly hyperbolic and divorced from reality, that I commented on it. Consider some perspective. He's a privileged dude who had a privileged position, that made him a crap ton of money. He failed, twice. He then produced a third movie they saw as un-releasable, which considering it had very little actual traction with it's release, proves them correct.

Everything they said about JL was to cover for Snyder. If they were honest and said, "we brought in Joss to fix it because it sucked" do you think that would have gone over well? That if they said nothing, there would have been a better reaction then what we got? I think we all know that isn't the case. Clearly after what happened with MoS and BvS, they decided they'd have final cut rights and they would use them. They did and tried to do so, without trashing Snyder. Which is the professional thing to do. But Snyder and his cult couldn't let it go. They had to turn it into a war on him. That it was the worst thing ever. That it was somehow "the scummiest way". Which I am pointing out, is BS. Because it is. There are real example in the same realm of actually scummy practices, that don't involve a dude of privilege making millions of dollars to sink a franchise.

So yes, your point was terrible. Warner went out of their way to cover for the man's folly. Trying to protect him isn't scummy, it's professional. The reaction of his cult has proven that no matter how they handled it, it would have been some sort of holy war on his art. Even now, as they ignore that fanbase and quietly move on, we have bad place over it. So yeah, you're completely wrong.

Your opinion on Snyder isn't what I am aruging about. You said it was "the scummiest way". This was so overtly hyperbolic and divorced from reality, that I commented on it. Consider some perspective. He's a privileged dude who had a privileged position, that made him a crap ton of money. He failed, twice. He then produced a third movie they saw as un-releasable, which considering it had very little actual traction with it's release, proves them correct.

Everything they said about JL was to cover for Snyder. If they were honest and said, "we brought in Joss to fix it because it sucked" do you think that would have gone over well? That if they said nothing, there would have been a better reaction then what we got? I think we all know that isn't the case. Clearly after what happened with MoS and BvS, they decided they'd have final cut rights and they would use them. They did and tried to do so, without trashing Snyder. Which is the professional thing to do. But Snyder and his cult couldn't let it go. They had to turn it into a war on him. That it was the worst thing ever. That it was somehow "the scummiest way". Which I am pointing out, is BS. Because it is. There are real example in the same realm of actually scummy practices, that don't involve a dude of privilege making millions of dollars to sink a franchise.

So yes, your point was terrible. Warner went out of their way to cover for the man's folly. Trying to protect him isn't scummy, it's professional. The reaction of his cult has proven that no matter how they handled it, it would have been some sort of holy war on his art. Even now, as they ignore that fanbase and quietly move on, we have bad place over it. So yeah, you're completely wrong.

And that's where I can't agree with your assessment. You dislike his movies and thus act like because of that he can't have also been treated crappily by his bosses. I do. Yes, I think the way they went about it was crappy regardless of the dude's performance, and literally stated how I felt the entire JL could've been handled better. But I guess I'm arguing in favor of privilege or whatever reading you've decided to take away from it.

So yeah, whatever. I usually find myself agreeing with you, but if you're gonna be this snotty and condescending over me saying I felt the dude got screwed over and that it was in the scummiest way possible, then I'm probably just better off adding you to the Ignore list.

 

[Black Narcissus]

And that's where I can't agree with your assessment. You dislike his movies and thus act like because of that he can't have also been treated crappily by his bosses. I do. Yes, I think the way they went about it was crappy regardless of the dude's performance, and literally stated how I felt the entire JL could've been handled better. But I guess I'm arguing in favor of privilege or whatever reading you've decided to take away from it.

So yeah, whatever. I usually find myself agreeing with you, but if you're gonna be this snotty and condescending over me saying I felt the dude got screwed over and that it was in the scummiest way possible, then I'm probably just better off adding you to the Ignore list.

Brother @DarthSkywalker wants to cancel Zack. He tried doing that with Tarantino, but I'm a good lawyer.

I'm just very happy the Snydercut cut exist. I'm also look forward to new JL blood going forward. Only real bummer is that Batfleck got to film his way out of this and bald Cavill didn't.

 

[Da-Scribe]

@MbJ is just speaking facts. You can dislike his work and simultaneously acknowledge WB handled his dismissal in an awful way.

The idea that using someone’s personal loss as a smoke screen for their termination could be seen as professional is the most wild gahdamn thing I have ever heard though. Some of you are so anti-Snyder that you’ve just wrapped back around to acting like one of his “Bros.”

 

[Chip Chipperson]

At the end of the day, WB only has themselves and their impossibly bad decision making skills to blame. I may not have liked all his movies and I definitely don’t agree with how he views some of the characters, but they gave him the keys to the kingdom and took them away far too late in the process, only making themselves look like fools.

guy made the movies he wanted to make, not his fault that WB tried to put the kibosh on things far too late in the process. They should’ve had the foresight to cut ties way before post production on JL. As someone who can at least respect the artist, I can’t fault him.

 

[Black Narcissus]

We also have to wait and see how it actually plays out on screen. We've gone this route time and time again with plot details being written out, most sound terrible and messy when written outright. Very excited about Supergirl tho.

Eh, I'm very much looking forward to most of the DC stuff this year and next.

Batgirl
Aquaman 2
The Batman
Black Adam
Flashpoint

Not bad at all.

 

[kguillou]

I think the execution of what leaked from the Flash has been exaggerated. I just don't see Muschietti going out of his way to "erase" other movies. I don't think this is going to be a Days of Future Past situation where the "bad" movies are retconned and changed. I think The Flash will be a soft reboot and and a fresh start without invalidating what came before.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Look, just give me a World’s Foinest with Batgirl and Supergirl and all will be right in the world.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Look, just give me a World’s Foinest with Batgirl and Supergirl and all will be right in the world.

I’m honestly surprised Ben didn’t see who they cast in both roles and go like “Hmm, maybe I spoke too soon”

 

[Da-Scribe]

I’m honestly surprised Ben didn’t see who they cast in both roles and go like “Hmm, maybe I spoke too soon”

When you’ve got JLO I don’t think much else is needed in life. Surprised he hasn’t retired altogether.

 

[FunkMiller]

At the end of the day, WB only has themselves and their impossibly bad decision making skills to blame. I may not have liked all his movies and I definitely don’t agree with how he views some of the characters, but they gave him the keys to the kingdom and took them away far too late in the process, only making themselves look like fools.

guy made the movies he wanted to make, not his fault that WB tried to put the kibosh on things far too late in the process. They should’ve had the foresight to cut ties way before post production on JL. As someone who can at least respect the artist, I can’t fault him.

100% this.

All the blame - all of it - lies on the shoulders of the executives at Warner Bros for this entire dumpster fire from 2013 onwards.

I greatly disliked how Snyder handled Superman and Batman… but at least he had a solid vision that he wanted to see executed. The execs were the ones in the wrong for letting him press ahead with it with no oversight.

And then when they panicked, after they failed to do their bloody jobs properly in the first place, they blamed him, screwed him over, and made everything ten times worse.

At this stage I genuinely feel the only hope for DC on film going forward is if somebody else buys it out from under the feckless, coke sniffing morons who run WB.

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

Imagine if Matt Reeves had directed MOS in 2013. He was one of the finalists for the job.

 

[BatLobster]

The irony of the way it all played out is... under this new multiverse model, it would've been feasible that Snyder could've done a standalone adaptation of Dark Knight Returns, which was clearly his dream project and the reason the DCEU went in the direction it did. I think if Snyder had been able to operate in a space where he wasn't impacting the overall continuity of the DC Universe as a whole, people may have been more accepting of it.

Anyway, it is what it is. I wasn't much of a fan of Snyder's run, but I'll give him some credit for casting Gal as Wonder Woman and Mamoa as Aquaman. Seeing as those two went on to have hugely successful solo films, I have no problem saying that Snyder cast the right people for the roles and he's always had a decent eye for casting. So it wasn't all a loss. I feel bad for Superman fans (the ones who love MOS anyway) who never got to see a true follow up. Superman got done dirty in this whole thing. It's still baffling that WB gets so trigger shy with the character.

Looking back though, it all feels so inevitable. WB had their eye on a Batman vs. Superman movie for a very long time. That was their original hope when they were simultaneously developing Batman Begins and Superman Returns. Only for SR to underperform while Nolan (smartly) made an effort to silo off his films from interference with other franchises. Snyder finally pitched them a way to have everything they'd been wanting for over a decade. I'm not letting them off the hook for ignoring the divisive track record he has as a filmmaker and entrusting him with their two biggest DC icons, but if you look at the situation from all angles it's also easy to see why they thought it would be the right gamble to make, especially if they were on board with trying to brand DC as the darker/grittier alternative to the MCU.

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

Oh I would still love to see a proper TDKR from Snyder, maybe in a few years

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Yes, even after everything that has happened, I’d still show up for his Dark Knight Returns, which they should’ve let him do from the start.