Justice League Zack Snyder Directing Justice League (The Snyder Cut Edition)

[souperman]

Maybe I need to see it again, but I thought Aquaman was cheesy garbage. Maybe Zack didn’t say anything because it was during the worst time in his life. His silence in 2018 was understandable. But it’s clearly not the tone of his Aquaman & there are contradictions. But we can say that about most of the DCEU spin-offs.

AM was ok for me. Slipped into cheese here and there. A bit over the top for my taste. Like roger Moore 007 vs Craig. Fun enough for what it was but I don’t count it in the same world as Snyder’s which I prefer for now.

 

[Kevin_28]

Yea I agree with shauner on why zack may not have been as vocal when aquaman was released. That being said, he was supportive behind the scenes. With aquaman, to me, it was entertaining for what it was, but definitely too cheesy for my personal preference (maybe due to GJ). There did seem to be some small things sprinkled in there that would have been more interesting to explore more in depth like Arthur’s struggles with his inaction when it came to BMs father, etc. My guess is that I will end up liking the second one more as Wan said it would be more serious and relevant. It probably will unravel more of those threads started in Aquaman.

 

[blackdragon6]

There's a clear difference between Snyder fans and Snyder cultists.

To be fair, I don't think people see a difference.

 

[Erzengel]

I enjoyed Aquaman and would put only behind WW. Momoa fits the role but I never would have thought this would have been the top grossing DCEU movie when everything was announced after MOS.

 

[blackdragon6]

Aquaman was just ok imo, but I LOVED Black Manta, and how everything looked in the film. But I hated the intentional cheese tho. Having said that, I think Wan handled his cheese better than Patti did for WW84.

 

[kguillou]

Yeah WW84 just turned the cheese all the way up. Although Cheese isnt necessarily a detrimental thing if youre having fun with the movie. Aquaman didnt allow you to linger on the plot as it was too busy keeping you entertained with the action and visuals and Mamoa’s antics. WW84 unfortunately didn't have those distractions to keep you from scratching your head at the plot.

 

[dhandler01]

The strength in Aquaman is definitely the visuals, it's a beautiful movie and I'm still curious if they'll end up doing that Trench movie. However, the overall story/script was weak but the cast did great with what they were given. The pitbull reference a couple of posts back makes me laugh, what the heck was that in the movie? The movie turned into a slow-motion Baywatch sh*tshow for a split second and it was out of nowhere. There are a lot of people that criticize Snyder for being a visuals-only director, but oddly enough, none of those criticisms are directed towards this movie and many even sight it as the best DCEU movie. I trust Wan a lot as I've been a fan of his practically his entire career, so I trust the sequel will be more cohesive and consistent.

Well to a lot of people Aquaman is just more enjoyable so they will ignore the issues with story. AM is not trying to be anything other than the love letter to Swarzenegger/Stallone/Willis Films that it is. That puts people in a different place than say a Snyder film which is trying to be at times many different things all at once. AM leaned into the ridiculous and often didn't feel the need to even explain it.

The scene where the big fishermen meet AM in the bar and it looks like a fight is about to happen and they just do lots of drinking and taking selfies is the perfect example. If Snyder shoots that scene it is completely different and likely ends up similar to the scene in MOS which, while funny, doesn't have the same charm in the eyes of a lot of people. (makes me laugh every time) It would have been more dour and probably couched in a deeper narrative. Wan basically just played it as "we know what you think, we know this is stupid so lets just subvert all of it and get you all laughing!" and it worked. Even though Arthur had issues with his royal lineage he never had issues with being a badass and that was what audiences wanted to see. (Wonder Woman was the same way) To him it wasn't a curse, it was just part of the party!

Hell even the Pitbull part, which is as groan worthy as it gets...just friggin fits because of the actors involved. As a huge fan of Stargate: Atlantis I know that type of scene is perfect for Momoa and he probably died laughing when it came to filming it. Again it makes no sense, but neither does any of the friggin movie! Wan said exactly what we always say when it comes to people analyzing these stories: "this is a film about a guy who can talk to fish, swim at massive speeds, is the royal heir to the Lost City of Atlantis...etc.". If you can accept that then Jason Momoa re-doing his Baywatch Glory Days is nothing! Oh and you know those memes of Aquaman on Cthulu...WELL HOW ABOUT HIM RIDING AN ANCIENT CTHULU LOOKING SEA BEAST VOICED BY JULIE ANDREWS!! No it makes no sense...but who cares!

Audiences tend to be kinder to films that recognize what they are. Some stories are just going to be dumb and ridiculed but if you lean into that the audience will go along for the ride. Wan knew AM was going to have an uphill battle for legitimacy, and he knew Momoa is rather limited as an actor but rolled a 20 for charisma so he played to that. Lots of hero shots, lots of cheesy one liners and lots of action set pieces. It is cliche, it is rather flimsy, but it is just everything I loved about summer blockbusters as a kid/teen. The story is just there to service the actors and the stuff that they can do. You shut your mind off and just enjoy.

 

[kguillou]

Well to a lot of people Aquaman is just more enjoyable so they will ignore the issues with story. AM is not trying to be anything other than the love letter to Swarzenegger/Stallone/Willis Films that it is. That puts people in a different place than say a Snyder film which is trying to be at times many different things all at once. AM leaned into the ridiculous and often didn't feel the need to even explain it.

The scene where the big fishermen meet AM in the bar and it looks like a fight is about to happen and they just do lots of drinking and taking selfies is the perfect example. If Snyder shoots that scene it is completely different and likely ends up similar to the scene in MOS which, while funny, doesn't have the same charm in the eyes of a lot of people. (makes me laugh every time) It would have been more dour and probably couched in a deeper narrative. Wan basically just played it as "we know what you think, we know this is stupid so lets just subvert all of it and get you all laughing!" and it worked. Even though Arthur had issues with his royal lineage he never had issues with being a badass and that was what audiences wanted to see. (Wonder Woman was the same way) To him it wasn't a curse, it was just part of the party!

Hell even the Pitbull part, which is as groan worthy as it gets...just friggin fits because of the actors involved. As a huge fan of Stargate: Atlantis I know that type of scene is perfect for Momoa and he probably died laughing when it came to filming it. Again it makes no sense, but neither does any of the friggin movie! Wan said exactly what we always say when it comes to people analyzing these stories: "this is a film about a guy who can talk to fish, swim at massive speeds, is the royal heir to the Lost City of Atlantis...etc.". If you can accept that then Jason Momoa re-doing his Baywatch Glory Days is nothing! Oh and you know those memes of Aquaman on Cthulu...WELL HOW ABOUT HIM RIDING AN ANCIENT CTHULU LOOKING SEA BEAST VOICED BY JULIE ANDREWS!! No it makes no sense...but who cares!

Audiences tend to be kinder to films that recognize what they are. Some stories are just going to be dumb and ridiculed but if you lean into that the audience will go along for the ride. Wan knew AM was going to have an uphill battle for legitimacy, and he knew Momoa is rather limited as an actor but rolled a 20 for charisma so he played to that. Lots of hero shots, lots of cheesy one liners and lots of action set pieces. It is cliche, it is rather flimsy, but it is just everything I loved about summer blockbusters as a kid/teen. The story is just there to service the actors and the stuff that they can do. You shut your mind off and just enjoy.

Dude i swear, I made noises I didnt even know i could make when Mamoa came out riding that big ass kaiju cthulu creature. That, in my personal book, is one of the top ten most F*** YEAH!! cbm moments ever.

 

[souperman]

 

[emielaen]

Aquaman is visually stunning, but the dialogue is... hard for me to enjoy.

Yeah that's mainly where i hope that seriousness and maturity Wan talked about is applied. I'm cool with the plot and visuals being ****ing crazy, but the dialogue can definitely improve which would help the interactions feel more natural imo.

 

[heatvision38]

I actually shamelessly love that Pitbull song

Love that moment. I'm always good for 80's cover songs.

 

[heatvision38]

Could be different clans or different types of guards.

 

[DeadStroke]

and snyder will do the bubble thing View attachment 43223

Could be wrong, but I think Snyder said talking without the bubble is dumb. So I'm not sure if he even saw Aquaman (at least by 2019)

 

[Deck Rickard]

Maybe I need to see it again, but I thought Aquaman was cheesy garbage. Maybe Zack didn’t say anything because it was during the worst time in his life. His silence in 2018 was understandable. But it’s clearly not the tone of his Aquaman & there are contradictions. But we can say that about most of the DCEU spin-offs.

Yeah Aquaman felt like a video game. Though I’m pretty sure characters in PlayStation cut scenes have more chemistry than Momoa and Heard did.

 

[heatvision38]

Could be wrong, but I think Snyder said talking without the bubble is dumb. So I'm not sure if he even saw Aquaman (at least by 2019)

From what I recall, I just think he wasn't sure how to make it work from a creative and logical standpoint. I've also heard Snyder say that logically, without a bubble, it wouldn't work like human language, but I don't think fans really care as long as it sounds good.

 

[idiot09]

No Studio was going to release a 4 hour movie and I feel if people think a half an hour makes the difference between the BvS TC and Ultimate cut what would an hour or an hour and a half not to mention John's changes would have been.

I think many would take a shorter ZSJL over the theatrical, because its not just about the length which would make ZSJL better, its the different content, style, tone, music etc. Regardless of length people are responding to changes that WB didnt want, like Black suit Superman, the more badass Steppenwolf, Knightmare Joker etc(going by trailers alone).

Also if ZS had his way, we would have probably had a 3hr theatrical, and a 4hr extended on home media, like say ROTK. That's definitely doable.And if he was given time from the beginning, I'm sure he could have made a proper TC edit. Zack admitted he had many cuts of the movie at different lengths. Watchmen theatrical works, director's cut is just better.

As far as we know the decision to cut BvS down was very very last minute, and lets be honest, it didnt work. I will agree with you that cutting a 4hr movie down to 3hr is difficult, but we have examples that have done it well before so who knows. Also I'm willing to bet some of the stuff in the 4hr cut can easily be trimmed/cut down and he is only putting it back in because he can. Remember, he was happy with the 214 director's cut.

Spoiler

putting in spoiler, cause off topic

This is also the first live meeting with them in cinema, it was always going to bring people in.

Yeah for sure, there is a novelty factor there, and that also results in high expectations from studio. I dunno why I'm discussing BO again, I'm no expert. I am not sure if the character's name automatically ensures a success I think there's been anomalies both ways, and sometimes the name can be a drag because of pre-conceived expectations and notions. That's all I'm saying.

BvS BO has been discussed to death, and we all know BO is unpredictable and depends on a LOT of factors. We can all agree the movie made money, but was not as big a hit as WB expected.

 

[idiot09]

Damn TC Steppenwolf was a bald bastah

 

[SupermanFan]

Aquaman is one of my all time favourite CBMs. It’s my second favourite DCEU film after Man of Steel.

What I love about it is it feels like WB to James Wann you can only ever make one Aquaman movie. So he put everything in Orm, Black Manta, the Karathen, the Trench and so on. It’s a brilliant blend of many different elements top fantastic, action, horror, comedy, love story etc. I absolutely love Arthur’s journey in the film. I totally disagree when people say he didn’t have chemistry with Amber Heard too.

Visually it may be the most stunning film I’ve ever seen too.

Easily a Top Ten CBM of all-time for me.

 

[marvelboy10]

The story where Arthur had to retain another trident may have angered Snyder.
.

This part made me curious, why he would be angry for that ?

Damn TC Steppenwolf was a bald bastah

He looks like my Friend Amine. Badass

 

[kguillou]

Aquaman is one of my all time favourite CBMs. It’s my second favourite DCEU film after Man of Steel.

What I love about it is it feels like WB to James Wann you can only ever make one Aquaman movie. So he put everything in Orm, Black Manta, the Karathen, the Trench and so on. It’s a brilliant blend of many different elements top fantastic, action, horror, comedy, love story etc. I absolutely love Arthur’s journey in the film. I totally disagree when people say he didn’t have chemistry with Amber Heard too.

Visually it may be the most stunning film I’ve ever seen too.

Easily a Top Ten CBM of all-time for me.

It was refreshing to see a cbm that just decided to say “f*** it” and just go for broke. Like you said it feels like the first and last Aquaman film ever made, it put it all out there in case a sequel was never made. And thats a rarity in this day and age where every movie is just a set up for the next film down the line.

 

[SupermanFan]

It was refreshing to see a cbm that just decided to say “f*** it” and just go for broke. Like you said it feels like the first and last Aquaman film ever made, it put it all out there in case a sequel was never made. And thats a rarity in this day and age where every movie is just a set up for the next film down the line.

Yeah it really was refreshing, there’s too much focus on “the franchise” these days IMO.

You know something I’ve long through is that WB weren’t expecting it to be the massive hit it was either. I honestly think had it not started production when it did they’d have delayed it and maybe never gotten to it. Thank god they didn’t.

 

[Erzengel]

I think many would take a shorter ZSJL over the theatrical, because its not just about the length which would make ZSJL better, its the different content, style, tone, music etc. Regardless of length people are responding to changes that WB didnt want, like Black suit Superman, the more badass Steppenwolf, Knightmare Joker etc(going by trailers alone).

Also if ZS had his way, we would have probably had a 3hr theatrical, and a 4hr extended on home media, like say ROTK. That's definitely doable.And if he was given time from the beginning, I'm sure he could have made a proper TC edit. Zack admitted he had many cuts of the movie at different lengths. Watchmen theatrical works, director's cut is just better.

As far as we know the decision to cut BvS down was very very last minute, and lets be honest, it didnt work. I will agree with you that cutting a 4hr movie down to 3hr is difficult, but we have examples that have done it well before so who knows. Also I'm willing to bet some of the stuff in the 4hr cut can easily be trimmed/cut down and he is only putting it back in because he can. Remember, he was happy with the 214 director's cut.

If he was able to do a 3 hour 34 minute cut or even just to 3 hours, in 2017, that still would have been the longest comic book movie ever released at the time theatrically. Even 4 years later, I think Endgame is the only one that's clocked over 3 hours unless I'm forgetting a less mainstream comic book movies.

I mean if we are talking in theory? I'm sure Snyder could have condensed a 4 hour movie into a 3 hour movie. In reality, if MOS made $950M and BvS gave $1.2B, I'm sure the Studio would have been hesitant but you would have a stronger case to give Snyder the chance.

 

[DCnightwing23]

Since the thread has turned towards Aquaman, can I just shoutout the fantastic costume designer for the movie - Kym Barrett knocked it out of the park, everyone's design was on point and the materials used were astounding, Aquaman/Orm/Black Manta are legitimately as close to perfection as you can get. Thinking of it, a massive shoutout to Michael Wilkinson with his amazing designs throughout the Snyder trilogy, his resume is amazing. I love the look of the DCEU as a whole and if you look at the list of costume designers so far it's an amazing group.

 

[Spider-jedi]

Since the thread has turned towards Aquaman, can I just shoutout the fantastic costume designer for the movie - Kym Barrett knocked it out of the park, everyone's design was on point and the materials used were astounding, Aquaman/Orm/Black Manta are legitimately as close to perfection as you can get. Thinking of it, a massive shoutout to Michael Wilkinson with his amazing designs throughout the Snyder trilogy, his resume is amazing. I love the look of the DCEU as a whole and if you look at the list of costume designers so far it's an amazing group.

thats a great list. i still cant stand the flash look. it just rubs me the wring way everytime i see it. it just too busy for my tastes. every other suit seems to streamedlined and easier on the eyes. they are ggggreat.

 

[souperman]

Amber Heard looked good on film in the little Zack shot JL we have seen.

in AM she could have been easily replaced by anyone IMO. ... and I hear she sleeps with the fishes. !

Her costume was silly right off the bat. Looked like a sequined jump suit from the disco era compared to the other costumes in AM. JL out fit was great.

AM to me, has the look of a comic book brought to life. Snyder’s films are life inspired by comic references.

AM got way too Clash of the Titans for my taste. More of a 70s Godzilla movie with elements from old Kung-fu movies thrown in.
Fun but not thought provoking.

Kung-fu TV series BTW , classic