Zimmer calls Elfman's theme "JOLLY"

[batman44]

I must be the only one who didn't think he was taking a jab at Elfman's score.

 

[Nightwing1977]

I must be the only one who didn't think he was taking a jab at Elfman's score.

Me either. I don't think he was bashing him as some think. I think he mean the tune or something. Some are taking his comments way too seriously.

 

[byte19]

reasonable ppl finally!!

 

[imnotbatman]

to me it doesnt sound like hes bashing elfman, but it does sound like he is a wee bit jealous. i mean, elfmans theme is awsome, to the point where supposedly zimmer "tested" it for TDK. thats pretty cool if they did.

 

[Bruce_Wayne29]

"Jolly" ?!? I'm becoming less and less tolerant to the whole Batman begins aficionadosor makers as they contantly try to destroyed or reduce the movies or Tim Burton. It's quite irritating and boring at the end.
I'm pretty sure a legion of BBegins fans will drink Zimmer's speech and take it as God's.
I think the music of Danny Elfam was one of the most powerful elements in the movies. "Why revist the old stuff ?" because it's good. IMO, it is not always necessary to take the same things in a new movie, but I think there are room for transformations. A new franchise could take the Elfman's theme and make it more violent, or more this or that, transform it but keep the whole theme like they do with James Bond so to speak.
Elfman's theme was heroic as hell, and very dark and strong, and it embodies perfectly the character. The cartoon used a similar theme and I think it worked fine, similar but different. I think this is how it should work. BBegins theme was not bad, but it is not as good as Danny Elfman's one.


agreed.

I agree, I'm becoming sick of it too. They are trying to uplift their stuff by bashing the great work of others. It shows envy and insecurity. The fact that (even though Begins was a sucess and got great reviews) people still talk about Keaton, Burton and Elfman shows how that legacy will never be destroyed or forgotten. No matter how much they try.

 

[Nightwing1977]

You guys think Zimmer would be jealous of Elfman? How wrong some of you guys are. Again, I think most of you guys are taking his comments out of content. He is not bashing Elfman's work at all. Using the word "jolly" doesn't mean he is saying Elfman's music was awful or anything. Maybe it just his way of saying what make their tune different or something. And Zimmer or anyone else are not trying to say negative about what Burton/Elfman with saying their is better. Nobody has said that.

 

[El Payaso]

You guys think Zimmer would be jealous of Elfman? How wrong some of you guys are. Again, I think most of you guys are taking his comments out of content. He is not bashing Elfman's work at all. Using the word "jolly" doesn't mean he is saying Elfman's music was awful or anything. Maybe it just his way of saying what make their tune different or something. And Zimmer or anyone else are not trying to say negative about what Burton/Elfman with saying their is better. Nobody has said that.

I'd agree if Zimmer said "My score won't be as traditional" or something like that. But Elfman's score was anything but "jolly" and it's clear that labelling Elfman's bat-theme as "jolly" is like Nolan saying "Of course I love Burton's Batman... for my 5 years old son's birtyday party. Not that there's anything wrong with that." I'm sorry but even if I can't state Zimmer is jealous he's trying to be passive-aggressively negative to Elfman in that quote, his intention or not that's what's read.

 

[Seditionary]

Zimmers done a **** ton of scores for alot of successful movies. Hes really talented and professional. He's not talking **** or making fun or anything, Hes just friggin citing that yer not going to get his take on the same idea.

And as far as the batman begins score goes..he has specifically said that he did not think that batman had earned a "THEME" as it was a year one story where he was finding his footing.

I'd expect some more notable themes this time around, as on the leaked soundtrack track titles one is called "I am the batman". Not to mention the harvey/two face and joker scores.

And tell me you dont get goosebumps everytime those rising two notes play at the end of the trailers.

 

[El Payaso]

Zimmers done a **** ton of scores for alot of successful movies. Hes really talented and professional.

He's certainly all that.

He's not talking **** or making fun or anything, Hes just friggin citing that yer not going to get his take on the same idea.

If in the process you call "jolly" to a certainly dark and perfect score then you are.

"No, we're taking a different approach" is stating it'll be different only.

And as far as the batman begins score goes..he has specifically said that he did not think that batman had earned a "THEME" as it was a year one story where he was finding his footing.

I never got that notion but if he can improve what's done then it's all good.

I'd expect some more notable themes this time around, as on the leaked soundtrack track titles one is called "I am the batman". Not to mention the harvey/two face and joker scores.

And tell me you dont get goosebumps everytime those rising two notes play at the end of the trailers.

I certainly got the goosebumps. Zimmer's score is notable.

 

[UltimateJustin]

While the Elfman theme, especially as adapted by Shirley Walker, is to me the quintessential theme for Batman, for the past three years I generally hum the two-note motif from Begins when I think of Batman.

Other than that, I agree that JNH's work on the BB score is what really makes it great.

I don't think Zimmer was really dissing him, but it is under his skin. Its like the fans are his new girlfriend and she keeps comparing him to her ex-boyfriend, who was black.

 

[byte19]

oooh!!!! thats kinda harsh ain't it? thats like saying; one time at band camp i had this pepsi can.....

 

[aturner]

Samples of TDK soundtrack up here:

http://www.exlibris.ch/musik/OSTVARIOUS/Dark_KnightThe/PHO/8505-9362498600.aspx

Even though they are short clips, I'm liking it. Sounds a lot more ominous, and it sounds like Newton Howard's contributions show through well. The Harvey Dent theme (from what you can hear of it) sounds tragic, which is exactly as I hoped.

 

[UltimateJustin]

Samples of TDK soundtrack up here:

http://www.exlibris.ch/musik/OSTVARIOUS/Dark_KnightThe/PHO/8505-9362498600.aspx

Even though they are short clips, I'm liking it. Sounds a lot more ominous, and it sounds like Newton Howard's contributions show through well. The Harvey Dent theme (from what you can hear of it) sounds tragic, which is exactly as I hoped.

Some of this is pretty amazing. It sounds like it will be a perfect sequel to the original score.

 

[Bubastis]

I must be the only one who didn't think he was taking a jab at Elfman's score.

I completely agree. I think Jolly in the european context means "great," not "happily silly." I think both scores were great for their respective movies, and both composers understand that.

Can't we all just get along?

 

[raleagh]

I think Jolly in the european context means "great," not "happily silly."

no, it doesn't.

 

[UltimateJustin]

no, it doesn't.

No, but it still means "happily silly", which to Europeans is the pennacle of greatness.

 

[Bubastis]

What about "Jolly good show"?

 

[lujho]

Zimmer obviously means lively and uptempo when he describes Elfman's theme (sounds like he's talking about the main march here, not Elfman's entire score) and that's a totally fair description. Yeah, it's a slightly odd usage of the word but then again English isn't Zimmer's first language.

He's not bashing Elfman's score in anyway, just saying, quite rightly, that that style wouldn't have fit Nolan's movie.

Now, I think Zimmer's Score for Begins is pretty bland and self-plagiarizing and the samples for TDK scound like more of the same... more of exactly the same, over and over again, so I'm not coming to this as some Zimmer apologist. I just think that what he said is totally fair.

Honestly, what little I've heard of what seems to be main theme for Gotham Night (on it's website) seems a much better Batman theme.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Zimmer isn't talented enough to clean Elfman's immortal nutsack.

 

[UltimateJustin]

I think they could have and should have incorporated the theme into Begins, but not in the "jolly" way with the brass and everything it was used in BATMAN. They could take the theme and make it more subdued and subtle. They could make it more classy and more badass, probably. Batman deserves a universal theme that people will always know him by like Superman, Indiana Jones and the kids from Honey, I Shrunk the Kids.

Mask of the Phantasm still has by far the greatest music ever created for the Batman. I liked the Begins score alot, but a Batman score without a latin choir is like gay sex without the shame. It takes away from the excitement.

 

[El Payaso]

I think they could have and should have incorporated the theme into Begins, but not in the "jolly" way with the brass and everything it was used in BATMAN.

That's easy since nothing was jolly on Elfman's theme.

 

[UltimateJustin]

That's easy since nothing was jolly on Elfman's theme.

Thatz tru 2 da game, but I meant that the Elfman theme was powerful and drew attention to itself and was a scene stealer. They could have made it more soft and haunting for modern audiences who are afraid of memorable movie themes.

 

[El Payaso]

Thatz tru 2 da game, but I meant that the Elfman theme was powerful and drew attention to itself and was a scene stealer. They could have made it more soft and haunting for modern audiences who are afraid of memorable movie themes.

Are you saying that music can make you stop paying attention to a movie and what's going on on the screen?

I thought people could watch and listen at the same time?

Man, I'm glad they didn't tone the score's power down for future paranoid audiences.

 

[UltimateJustin]

Are you saying that music can make you stop paying attention to a movie and what's going on on the screen?

I thought people could watch and listen at the same time?

Man, I'm glad they didn't tone the score's power down for future paranoid audiences.

What I'm saying is they could have done what that guy who basically sucks but did good at updating John William's Superman score for SR did with the Love Theme from Superman. The original was too light, fluttery and untamed for today's standards so he tweaked it and made it more emotional.

Audiences today can't handle powerful scores. They don't know what to do with themselves and they lose control of their motor skills. IMO.

 

[El Payaso]

What I'm saying is they could have done what that guy who basically sucks but did good at updating John William's Superman score for SR did with the Love Theme from Superman. The original was too light, fluttery and untamed for today's standards so he tweaked it and made it more emotional.

Audiences today can't handle powerful scores. They don't know what to do with themselves and they lose control of their motor skills. IMO.

They... what?




But well, I think they did good with having a total different score so the franchises are separated.