DC Animation “My Adventures with Superman” in the works at Adult Swim & Max

[flickchick85]

Yeah I don’t get the notion that this doesn’t know what it wants to be. It has a VERY clear vision to me, one that’s distinctive from the Superman media that’s come before it, yet fully captures the spirit of Superman.

To each their own, but I didn’t get the impression that this creative team gave a single thought to Zack Snyder while making it.

 

[The Question]

Sorry to hear you felt this way. I personally had the opposite experience! Every episode of the first season felt like a win to me, and I think it 100% knows what it wants to be and charges right into that quite bravely.

I didn't feel like any of it was some kind of direct push back on Snyder's version of the characters. It just felt like a new take on the characters, that embodies all the core qualities that feel important to me. And I think every interview I've seen with Josie Campbell just reinforces that. She's clearly a huge fan, and a knowledgeable one to boot.

The show at points had me joyfully cheering, and at other points, crying, because it hits the notes I love so well.

My overall vibe each episode was just 'yeah, I have no notes'. And I'm usually pretty critical of shows flaws, even when I love them (I.e. Smallville, S&L).

It's the villains that are the biggest sticking point for me. Every change felt unmotivated and also cheapened the character to me. Intergang is just team rocket now. Parasite is some kind of evil Tony Start, I guess. They don't feel like choices that were made for reasons.

 

[Lily Adler]

Looking great, just need that Season 3 announcement.

I wouldn't call Lois and Clark "Best Friends", announcer.

 

[flickchick85]

I thought combining Amazo and Parasite made for a fun and creative remix. And I think the lore they’re building with the Kryptonian tech is perfectly “reason” enough to be putting their own spin on things. But everyone’s entitled to their opinion! If it doesn’t jive with you, it doesn’t jive. Lord knows I’ve had that experience with certain beloved Superman media myself.

I wouldn't call Lois and Clark "Best Friends", announcer.

How ‘bout “gal pals”?

 

[hopefuldreamer]

It's the villains that are the biggest sticking point for me. Every change felt unmotivated and also cheapened the character to me. Intergang is just team rocket now. Parasite is some kind of evil Tony Start, I guess. They don't feel like choices that were made for reasons.

Fair enough. I personally enjoyed the villains for the most part, especially Parasite. His evolution throughout the series, and how Clark interacts with him, made for some of the high points of the series for me, and added to the overall message the show was conveying.

I agree to some extent about the team rocket thing, its not something I'd choose - but I guess those stylistic nods to anime don't effect my appreciation of the shows overall understanding and love for Clark Kent/Superman, Lois Lane.

 

[Lily Adler]

I thought combining Amazo and Parasite made for a fun and creative remix. And I think the lore they’re building with the Kryptonian tech is perfectly “reason” enough to be putting their own spin on things. But everyone’s entitled to their opinion! If it doesn’t jive with you, it doesn’t jive. Lord knows I’ve had that experience with certain beloved Superman media myself.


How ‘bout “gal pals”?

Ivo isn't Amazo. He made Amazo.

 

[flickchick85]

Ivo isn't Amazo. He made Amazo.

View attachment 89385

I’m aware. He also made this tech, under the “AmazoTech” banner. Ergo, it’s a Parasite/Amazo remix.

 

[Lily Adler]

I’m aware. He also made this tech, under the “AmazoTech” banner. Ergo, it’s a Parasite/Amazo remix.

Technically no.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Ivo isn't Amazo. He made Amazo.

View attachment 89385

All I can say is... I think this parasite IS totally Amazo.

 

[Lily Adler]

All I can say is... I think this parasite IS totally Amazo.

View attachment 89388

 

[flickchick85]

Technically no.

View attachment 89387

Technically yep!

 

[Sithborg]

Having watched Campbells other two series she was heavily involved in, She-ra and the Princesses of Power and Camp Cretaceous, I very much see what she is going for in this show.

 

[The Question]

Having watched Campbells other two series she was heavily involved in, She-ra and the Princesses of Power and Camp Cretaceous, I very much see what she is going for in this show.

Can you clue me in?

 

[Sithborg]

Can you clue me in?

I mean, you call it anti-Snyder just to be anti-Snyder. When in reality, any good Superman adaptation will be anti-Snyder. Also kind of funny because I feel the Zero Day event kind of stole a bit from MoS.

Campbell is creating a new Superman show for a new generation. Incorporating tons of stuff that has happened in YA animation over the years. Its not about being faithful, like X-men 97, but remixing things and themes to something kids now would appreciate. While keeping that core of Superman. You have serialized elements to the episodic nature, which is why the villains are all essentially tied to Kryptonian tech, to tie them all together for a broader story.

And honestly, the comparison to Sailor Moon is kind of hilarious. You do understand the original show was stretched out. And I mean STRETCHED out. The story beats here are very comparable to the manga and Crystal.

 

[The Question]

I mean, you call it anti-Snyder just to be anti-Snyder. When in reality, any good Superman adaptation will be anti-Snyder. Also kind of funny because I feel the Zero Day event kind of stole a bit from MoS.

Campbell is creating a new Superman show for a new generation. Incorporating tons of stuff that has happened in YA animation over the years. Its not about being faithful, like X-men 97, but remixing things and themes to something kids now would appreciate. While keeping that core of Superman. You have serialized elements to the episodic nature, which is why the villains are all essentially tied to Kryptonian tech, to tie them all together for a broader story.

And honestly, the comparison to Sailor Moon is kind of hilarious. You do understand the original show was stretched out. And I mean STRETCHED out. The story beats here are very comparable to the manga and Crystal.

I wasn't talking about the pacing.

Anyway, I get all of that, but to me that just sounds like marketing speak. Peter David once said that, when you're writing a story, a helpful exercise is to try and explain what the story is about without naming or describing any of the characters or events. If you can do that, it means your story has a strong foundation that everything else is built on top of. The example he gave was Neil Gaiman's Sandman, saying that Sandman is a story about being faced with a binary choice, either change as a person or die, and weighing those two options.

That's kind of what I'm getting at with the show not feeling like it knows what it wants to be.

 

[The Question]

Yes I'm sure.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

I wasn't talking about the pacing.

Anyway, I get all of that, but to me that just sounds like marketing speak. Peter David once said that, when you're writing a story, a helpful exercise is to try and explain what the story is about without naming or describing any of the characters or events. If you can do that, it means your story has a strong foundation that everything else is built on top of. The example he gave was Neil Gaiman's Sandman, saying that Sandman is a story about being faced with a binary choice, either change as a person or die, and weighing those two options.

That's kind of what I'm getting at with the show not feeling like it knows what it wants to be.

You can definitely do that with this story. TBH I think you could with any story 🤷‍♀️ There are multiple interpretations here.

My take would be - it's a story about figuring out who you really are with the help of the people that love you

 

[Dr.]

Peter David once said that, when you're writing a story, a helpful exercise is to try and explain what the story is about without naming or describing any of the characters or events. If you can do that, it means your story has a strong foundation that everything else is built on top of.

This resonates with me as it reflects my own attitude. In terms of Superman stories, I sometimes find certain scenes to be a tad sophomoric. I.e., the main appeal seems to be that it’s Superman, in particular, involved in the interactions. But if one were to substitute someone else in, those same scenes would come across as weak or ham-handed. To be sure, Superman is a unique character; so his circumstances can't always or easily be translated to others. Generally, however, I take the view that a clumsy scene doesn’t automatically become a better one just because Superman is in it.

All that said… I found season one of My Adventures with Superman to be quite enjoyable. True, the villain plots and developing Krypton backstory are somewhat standard/boilerplate. But the Clark/Supes/Lois (and Jimmy) interactions are fun. In terms of a sub-genre, I guess MAWS is going for a more romcom-y hijinks approach. And on that basis, it seems to work. I'm open to different interpretations and iterations of the Superman mythos. (For instance, I also liked the Snyder trilogy.) Vive la difference.

 

[The Question]

This resonates with me as it reflects my own attitude. In terms of Superman stories, I sometimes find certain scenes to be a tad sophomoric. I.e., the main appeal seems to be that it’s Superman, in particular, involved in the interactions. But if one were to substitute someone else in, those same scenes would come across as weak or ham-handed. To be sure, Superman is a unique character; so his circumstances can't always or easily be translated to others. Generally, however, I take the view that a clumsy scene doesn’t automatically become a better one just because Superman is in it.

All that said… I found season one of My Adventures with Superman to be quite enjoyable. True, the villain plots and developing Krypton backstory are somewhat standard/boilerplate. But the Clark/Supes/Lois (and Jimmy) interactions are fun. In terms of a sub-genre, I guess MAWS is going for a more romcom-y hijinks approach. And on that basis, it seems to work. I'm open to different interpretations and iterations of the Superman mythos. (For instance, I also liked the Snyder trilogy.) Vive la difference.

My problem isn't with the changes, it's with the execution. I love romcoms, I just don't think this is a particularly good one.

 

[Still Wynning]

I thought the message and thesis of the show was quite clear and not confusing at all. This post pretty much sums it up for me:

You can definitely do that with this story. TBH I think you could with any story 🤷‍♀️ There are multiple interpretations here.

My take would be - it's a story about figuring out who you really are with the help of the people that love you

Also, as far as the villains go, yes, the characters have been simplified, but they are not boilerplate or even nonexistent. Doctor Ivo/Parasite appropriates alien technology and wears an alien suit that literally fuels and increases his own already large ego and bigotedness the more hits and energy he takes around him, and can’t think straight or listen to reason the more powerful the suit gets (not subtle at all.). The Brain and Monsieur Mallah, after having been betrayed by the government in the past, just want to perform their mad scientist experiments and share their love together in peace. Sam Lane and Amanda Waller and both of their motivations as it relates to Zero Day…do I even need to explain?

As for some of the other villains, the show isn’t finished yet, so we could delve more into who some of them are and why they do what they do.

Ultimately, The Question, I think your opinion on the show just comes down to personal preference and subjectiveness. It personally didn’t work for you, and that’s fine, but it obviously worked for a lot of people, which is not nothing. So, something about it speaks to people and says something about its own inherent quality. Even if I wasn’t a Superman fan, which I am, I would still find this show absolutely charming and delightful.

Also, what you said about Superman using a Henshin to transform and it taking away from his humanity? Literally only happens once, in the second episode. Never happens again. Also, his mom makes him the shorts to complete the outfit. One of the themes of the show is literally about the push and pull between Clark’s humanity and his alien heritage, and him struggling and grappling with that, and the suit he wears is one of the clearest and most blatant examples of that symbolism in the show. It is not subtle about it.

 

[Spider-Fan]

One day I am going to have to try and come back to this show. I remember trying to watch it late one night, and I got halfway through the 1st episode. One thing that I found tedious was I felt they made Clark a tad too bumbling. Like it felt like every 2 seconds he was breaking something. Which was funny a few times, but even there I felt overdone. But in my defense, I was tired when I started watching it and was half falling asleep. I need to give it another shot down the road

 

[The Question]

I didn't say the themes are confusing. I don't think I've explained my point of view very well. I do agree that that is what the creators are going for, but I don't think it's what the show is ABOUT in practice. Like, I don't think the writing of the plots or characters serve that theme very well at all, and I think the creators seem too preoccupied with shipping and anime references and not focused enough on embodying those themes in the writing. On top of that, I think they're leaning on the mythology and pre-existing fan goodwill at the expense of actually earning their moments. The League of Loises was rushed and kind of half baked, for example. Also a lot of the episodes just feel VERY first draft to me.

 

[The Question]

I thought the message and thesis of the show was quite clear and not confusing at all. This post pretty much sums it up for me:

Also, as far as the villains go, yes, the characters have been simplified, but they are not boilerplate or even nonexistent. Doctor Ivo/Parasite appropriates alien technology and wears an alien suit that literally fuels and increases his own already large ego and bigotedness the more hits and energy he takes around him, and can’t think straight or listen to reason the more powerful the suit gets (not subtle at all.). The Brain and Monsieur Mallah, after having been betrayed by the government in the past, just want to perform their mad scientist experiments and share their love together in peace. Sam Lane and Amanda Waller and both of their motivations as it relates to Zero Day…do I even need to explain?

As for some of the other villains, the show isn’t finished yet, so we could delve more into who some of them are and why they do what they do.

Ultimately, The Question, I think your opinion on the show just comes down to personal preference and subjectiveness. It personally didn’t work for you, and that’s fine, but it obviously worked for a lot of people, which is not nothing. So, something about it speaks to people and says something about its own inherent quality. Even if I wasn’t a Superman fan, which I am, I would still find this show absolutely charming and delightful.

Also, what you said about Superman using a Henshin to transform and it taking away from his humanity? Literally only happens once, in the second episode. Never happens again. Also, his mom makes him the shorts to complete the outfit. One of the themes of the show is literally about the push and pull between Clark’s humanity and his alien heritage, and him struggling and grappling with that, and the suit he wears is one of the clearest and most blatant examples of that symbolism in the show. It is not subtle about it.

So why did the henshin happen at all? Why not just have Ma Kent make the whole suit instead of just the shorts? It all feels a bit clunky to me.

Also, the show's lack of subtlety with the characterization is a flaw, not strength.

 

[The Question]

Let me try and sum up my criticisms clearly and concisely, just so I'm not misunderstood.

1) My biggest problem is the one I've touched on the least, actually, which is simply that the writing of nearly every episode feels like a first draft. Episodes follow an "and then and then and then" story structure instead of a "therefore/but" story structure (example of what I mean in the link). There are regular plot holes and leaps in logic that could be cleared up on a second draft (like the portal-proof room suddenly not being portal-proof anymore as soon as Mxyzptlk wants to leave, or the League of Loises opening fire on Superman simply because he was helping a con artist who is known for manipulating people into trusting him). The plot contrivances, like the LoL bringing Lois and Jimmy along for not particular reason, are also an issue. The Mxyzptlk episode is one of the most recent ones I watched, so that's where my memories for examples are freshest. On a related note, the dialogue is also, in my opinion, kind of bad. A lot of cliche lines like Deathstroke's sinister "we're the good guys," or the punk cyborg Lois' unhelpfully cryptic comments about Superman.

2) I'm not sure the writers actually do have the best grasp of the characters they're writing. Lois comes off as very controlling and entitled towards Clark, a co-worker she's only known for a few weeks, and extremely hypocritical about her "secrets are bad" philosophy, and I'm not sure the writers see that. Clark's romantic gestures toward Lois are VERY extreme and over the top for someone who he's only just started dating, and I'm not sure the writers realize that. Jimmy just feels like a watered down version of Sokka from ATLA, but without the arc or the insecurities. And of course, there's the fact that the journalistic ethics of characters like Vicky Vale should and would get them fired in the real world, not promoted to editor.

3) As I said before, I really don't like most of the villains. Deathstroke and the government guys are okay, but that's about it for me. None of the changes made are better, or even all that interesting. Intergang was a massive criminal conspiracy that required the skills of Clark Kent to defeat just as much as Superman. Now they're team rocket. Ivo/Parasite is written like an SNL parody of Elon Musk, he doesn't feel like a character in his own right. He feels extremely flat and one dimensional, like a character from a satire and not like a villain who is a credible threat. He's too goofy, and he lacks the intensity or menace of EITHER of the DC villains he's based on. I've got no problem with changes, but these changes all feel unmotivated. They all feel, to me, like the writers thought "okay, HOW do we make these characters different" instead of starting from a place of having a really good new idea. The changes they made, to me, bring no improvements, and strip away the characters' personality. Silver Banshee was a scorned and cursed woman looking for revenge. Now she's just a thief. The Mist was an assassin from a family of assassins. Now he's just a thief. Livewire was a shock rock radio DJ drunk on power. Now she's just a thief. Parasite is the only one who actually has some kind of personality and vibe, and that vibe is just a watered down MCU Justin Hammer. The villains are all a miss for me. Except Mxyzptlk. He was fun. And "Alex"... that whole thing with "Alex" is just a miss for me.

4) The anime references all feel pretty shallow to me. That's all I have to say about that.

5) While yes, I agree the show has themes it is going for, I don't think it dramatizes those themes effectively, or treats them as a narrative priority. Way more attention is put on making Clark and Lois hot and living them "kawaii" moments where they blush, than on actually exploring themes of identity and friendship. It seems like this show is working on the J.J. Abrams "Mystery Box" school of storytelling, and the themes only ever come up when we peak into the mystery box. In the scenes where they don't, it's just cute anime antics peppered with lip service payed to "a normal life" every now and then. That's my problem with the show's themes, not that they aren't clear, but that the writing doesn't live up to them.

These are my problems with the show in detail. I just wanted to make sure I was clear.

 

[flickchick85]

Let me try and sum up my criticisms clearly and concisely, just so I'm not misunderstood.

1) My biggest problem is the one I've touched on the least, actually, which is simply that the writing of nearly every episode feels like a first draft. Episodes follow an "and then and then and then" story structure instead of a "therefore/but" story structure (example of what I mean in the link). There are regular plot holes and leaps in logic that could be cleared up on a second draft (like the portal-proof room suddenly not being portal-proof anymore as soon as Mxyzptlk wants to leave, or the League of Loises opening fire on Superman simply because he was helping a con artist who is known for manipulating people into trusting him). The plot contrivances, like the LoL bringing Lois and Jimmy along for not particular reason, are also an issue. The Mxyzptlk episode is one of the most recent ones I watched, so that's where my memories for examples are freshest. On a related note, the dialogue is also, in my opinion, kind of bad. A lot of cliche lines like Deathstroke's sinister "we're the good guys," or the punk cyborg Lois' unhelpfully cryptic comments about Superman.

2) I'm not sure the writers actually do have the best grasp of the characters they're writing. Lois comes off as very controlling and entitled towards Clark, a co-worker she's only known for a few weeks, and extremely hypocritical about her "secrets are bad" philosophy, and I'm not sure the writers see that. Clark's romantic gestures toward Lois are VERY extreme and over the top for someone who he's only just started dating, and I'm not sure the writers realize that. Jimmy just feels like a watered down version of Sokka from ATLA, but without the arc or the insecurities. And of course, there's the fact that the journalistic ethics of characters like Vicky Vale should and would get them fired in the real world, not promoted to editor.

3) As I said before, I really don't like most of the villains. Deathstroke and the government guys are okay, but that's about it for me. None of the changes made are better, or even all that interesting. Intergang was a massive criminal conspiracy that required the skills of Clark Kent to defeat just as much as Superman. Now they're team rocket. Ivo/Parasite is written like an SNL parody of Elon Musk, he doesn't feel like a character in his own right. He feels extremely flat and one dimensional, like a character from a satire and not like a villain who is a credible threat. He's too goofy, and he lacks the intensity or menace of EITHER of the DC villains he's based on. I've got no problem with changes, but these changes all feel unmotivated. They all feel, to me, like the writers thought "okay, HOW do we make these characters different" instead of starting from a place of having a really good new idea. The changes they made, to me, bring no improvements, and strip away the characters' personality. Silver Banshee was a scorned and cursed woman looking for revenge. Now she's just a thief. The Mist was an assassin from a family of assassins. Now he's just a thief. Livewire was a shock rock radio DJ drunk on power. Now she's just a thief. Parasite is the only one who actually has some kind of personality and vibe, and that vibe is just a watered down MCU Justin Hammer. The villains are all a miss for me. Except Mxyzptlk. He was fun. And "Alex"... that whole thing with "Alex" is just a miss for me.

4) The anime references all feel pretty shallow to me. That's all I have to say about that.

5) While yes, I agree the show has themes it is going for, I don't think it dramatizes those themes effectively, or treats them as a narrative priority. Way more attention is put on making Clark and Lois hot and living them "kawaii" moments where they blush, than on actually exploring themes of identity and friendship. It seems like this show is working on the J.J. Abrams "Mystery Box" school of storytelling, and the themes only ever come up when we peak into the mystery box. In the scenes where they don't, it's just cute anime antics peppered with lip service payed to "a normal life" every now and then. That's my problem with the show's themes, not that they aren't clear, but that the writing doesn't live up to them.

These are my problems with the show in detail. I just wanted to make sure I was clear.

Oh your complaints were clear. I just don’t agree with any of it. And that’s fine. The show’s not for you. It is for me and plenty of others, and that’s what makes characters like Superman endure for as long as he has.