Arrow Arrow 4X1 - Green Arrow

[b_boy]

I liked Thea being all happy and her, Laurel and Diggle as a team. They really seemed like a team where everyone trusted that the other would do their parts and be an equal.

I don't think is capt. Lance on the grave because it wouldn't make sense to have Oliver alone on his grave when Lance is Laurel's and Sara's father (Sara would already be back in 6 months). Roy or Oliver's son would make more sense I think.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I really wish we could've seen the team win some battles before asking Oliver to come back instead of jumping all the way to their last mission as a 3some.

 

[DCnightwing23]

I LOL'd when the group gathers in the lair after seeing Darhk's abilities and everyone assumes he is a metahuman, which is more believable given the connection between Flash and Arrow, then Oliver out of nowhere says something along the lines of "that wasn't a metahuman, it was mystical." How the hell can you even tell the difference??????? To me, and many other's it looks like a straight up metahuman... Oh, Oliver must have left the island for the billionth time and ran into some mystical stuff, then went back to the island... for the billionth time.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I'm not really a fan of Oliver knowing about "mysticism". He doesn't have to encounter everything and everyone in the past. But yeah there is really nothing different that DD did that a meta human couldn't possibly do.

 

[DoomGuy91]

It seems back in season 2 when Oliver (paraphrasing here) told Diggle that he encountered a superhuman (slade) before, and he has seen some strange things while he was exiled, those strange things is not just mirakuru. Besides that, we had him encounter that toxin in season 3 (and also saw someone under mind control), and it seems mysticism is also one of those strange things.

 

[DoomGuy91]

That's what I thought.

They could have him do his mission for Waller on the Island , she takes him off the Island once he has completed it. For some reason he is sent to Russia, then in his last year before returning to Starling he is ditched on the Island again.

Also he still has to learn how to fly a plane.

So maybe they are saving the Russia flashbacks for season 5.

Though some have said that the season 5 flashbacks (if there is one) should be his last year before returning to season 1 present. Making it 5 seasons 5 years gone. But if this show keeps going past season 5, they may want to expanded Olivers flashbacks beyond 5 seasons. This could be done if they don't follow the route of "1 season equals 1 flashback year" all the time, and do not have big time jumps.

So if the writers wanted to, they could stretch out Oliver's last time being stranded on the Island, to season 6 flashbacks or beyond. Therefore making sure whenever this series finally ends, the last Oliver Flashback is the start of season 1. Becoming full circle.

 

[zenith16]

I think the only reason he's on the island is to assassinate am mystical foe but really why it had to be that place(the island) there I don't know.

it could have been any where. it was bit too early for it .


But it seems some of the fan base it seem wanted him back there. cause what went in season 3 (it wasn't the location it was the writers) he's supposed have hate issue's with the island yes. most of his worse night mares or initals of them happened there. but that shouldn't mean every single horrible thing that he met and dis liked like the mystical side should have happened there as well.


it could have happened in Russia as well. but oh well.

 

[herolee10]

I'm not really a fan of Oliver knowing about "mysticism". He doesn't have to encounter everything and everyone in the past. But yeah there is really nothing different that DD did that a meta human couldn't possibly do.

Yeah, it's really becoming somewhat of a running gag/old that Oliver just happens to have had conveniently encountered the thing that he's facing every season some time in the past.

Can't Oliver just go through on season without having encountered it in the past? It worked for Season 1.

Plus, like you said, there was nothing to really indicate that Damien's powers were special where it could be categorized as being mystical than meta-human like.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Aired here tonight, really loved it, I didn't hate S3, but it was a big step down from what came before. I had a feeling the writers knew that and would try harder this season though, and the first episode shows that, so hope the rest of the season does.

Oliver back on the island doesn't bother me either, as the flashbacks last season were poor, and he has a lot to learn yet before getting to the stage of him coming back.

The show seems more fun than usual also, with the humour rampant, but it still had its dark moments, and the ending at the grave was a good tease, I think it will tak a while to find out who it is. The action seemed much better than last season as well, more like the first 2 seasons, which is a good thing, 8/10 for this episode.

 

[metaphysician]

Isn't Star City now leaderless? no DA no mayor no emergency service head.....I sure the council could run but no deputy mayor? I would think state government have to come in and help since the police can't handle the problem

This is one of those places where you just have to suspend disbelief. In the DCU, there is apparently no state government worth mentioning, going by how little importance it has versus the giant cities.

 

[Fincher]

Good:

- Damian Darhk was cool. I'm expecting the villainous plot to be a significant step up from last season.

- The Oliver and Felicity stuff really wasn't bad.

- They're setting Quentin up as a badguy (albeit a somewhat reluctant one) instead of acting like he's in a position to moralize. Just so they know I'm not forgiving him for s***.

- Thea

- The action


Bad:

- Adding magic, and in doing so further drifting from the near-realism of the first season

- Diggle's mask. And whatever good came out of him covering his face to protect his identity was counteracted by

(1) Laurel, in a brightly lit room beside her father with other cops in the room (when she's a lawyer), speaking in her normal voice and expecting her mask to be enough of a disguise

(2) Laurel twice, while not in costume, discussing Team Arrow business around other people without doing much to conceal what she's talking about

How are they ever going to stay off Lady Cop's radar if they're this bad about keeping their secret?


Overall: 7/10. Well, a high 7/10.

I seriously hope that isn't Thea at the end.

 

[Bathead]

So, you have no problem with meta-humans, which are just as fantastic and unrealistic as magic?
Or do you?
Either way, as "semi-realistic" as the show was at first, considering the source, (comics) this direction of going towards the more fantastic is not out of place. I find the more the show embraces the more fantastic aspects of the comics, and does so un-apologetically, the more I like it. I get a little tired of this absolute insistence on realism in an inherently unrealistic genre.

 

[Fincher]

I'm not against fantasy, I'm in favor of consistency. The first season set the tone for what I expected from the show, and I don't think at the time they even intended to go this route. Why make Harbinger an A.R.G.U.S. agent unless that's the closest you can get with your show concept?

 

[ThePreface]

I'm not against fantasy, I'm in favor of consistency. The first season set the tone for what I expected from the show, and I don't think at the time they even intended to go this route. Why make Harbinger an A.R.G.U.S. agent unless that's the closest you can get with your show concept?

It stopped being inconsistent the day the Flash pilot aired. The Lazarus Pit took it a step forward. It's not that mysticism didn't exist; it's that it's rare enough that Oliver didn't have to mention or worry about it before.

And having different aspects like science fiction and fantasy being introduced gradually is better than throwing everything and the kitchen sink at the audience in the first season. As Oliver becomes more powerful as a symbol so do the stakes and his enemies.

 

[Fincher]

It stopped being inconsistent the day the Flash pilot aired. The Lazarus Pit took it a step forward. It's not that mysticism didn't exist; it's that it's rare enough that Oliver didn't have to mention or worry about it before.

I don't watch The Flash and don't worry about what happens on that show in regard to Arrow. The Lazarus Pit was ambiguous; it was this episode that firmly established mystical elements, so it's this episode (and season) that takes the blame, from my perspective.

And having different aspects like science fiction and fantasy being introduced gradually is better than throwing everything and the kitchen sink at the audience in the first season.

And I don't agree. Buffy the Vampire Slayer introduced vampires and magic and robots in the first season. I didn't say, "Slow down, start by fighting muggers or something and work up to that stuff in the third or fourth season." Maybe that's a good strategy for attracting people who avoid science fiction and fantasy, or maybe not, but I don't rate shows based on what works for them.

 

[ThePreface]

How is magic insta-healing water ambiguous? Because if it is I'd like to know who your primary care physician is or what medical school you went to...

 

[Bathead]

I'm not against fantasy, I'm in favor of consistency. The first season set the tone for what I expected from the show, and I don't think at the time they even intended to go this route. Why make Harbinger an A.R.G.U.S. agent unless that's the closest you can get with your show concept?

Disagree. I think it's been their plan from the get-go.

 

[Bathead]

It stopped being inconsistent the day the Flash pilot aired. The Lazarus Pit took it a step forward. It's not that mysticism didn't exist; it's that it's rare enough that Oliver didn't have to mention or worry about it before.

And having different aspects like science fiction and fantasy being introduced gradually is better than throwing everything and the kitchen sink at the audience in the first season. As Oliver becomes more powerful as a symbol so do the stakes and his enemies.

That's what I believe was their plan from the beginning. I'm sure they figured a lot of folks are uncomfortable with the fantastic aspect of comic books, (with the way the average person likes to ridicule comic books and superheroes, I can believe that) I believe the producers wanted to introduce it piecemeal so ome of the audience would get used to it.

 

[Fincher]

How is magic insta-healing water ambiguous? Because if it is I'd like to know who your primary care physician is or what medical school you went to...

Season 2 had a drug called Mirakuru that caused rapid healing, among other things. Actually, given that and the psychological effects of both, Mirakuru could have easily been a derivative of the Lazarus Pit. And if it being magic were so obvious, why would Oliver have told them Damian was mystical and that he had seen things as if they had not also seen something mystical? Why would the discovery of magic in Season 3 not have provoked any sort of response from any of them?

 

[ThePreface]

There's no amount of science to explain how a cut hand insta-heals by coming into contact with water. Sorry. In the Flarrowverse the Lazarus Pit is literally our version of the Fountain of Youth. I thought that was clear when Ra's name dropped Ponce de Leon, Al-Khidr, and Herodotus. If that isn't magic homey you have a very vivid imagination.

 

[Fincher]

It can be explained just as easily as a meta-human who can shoot beams from his eyes. For example, there could be symbiotic micro-organisms in the water.

 

[Jedi Arrow]

Watched the episode tonight. I was very impressed. Damien Darhk is demented and villainous...Laurel, Thea, and Diggle are awesome...Olicity is actually great for a change...

Oh, and Oliver is happy. This is the best depiction of Oliver...since S1, probably. This is terrific. I want them to keep this up all season. He even made a snarky comment to Darhk before the fight.

Even the funeral thing at the end–Oliver's attitude was totally different than what it would've been last season or S2. He would've blamed himself. Now, he just says "I'm responsible for stopping the darkness" and "I'm going to kill him." This is a vastly different Oliver.

I'm curious where they're going with Detective Lance. Why's he working with HIVE? He's clearly being coerced, at least somewhat, so it's not like he is on Darhk's side. But...why?

The only problem I have is it seems this episode almost moved too fast.

Overall: 9/10

 

[ThePreface]

It can be explained just as easily as a meta-human who can shoot beams from his eyes. For example, there could be symbiotic micro-organisms in the water.

 

[Bathead]

It can be explained just as easily as a meta-human who can shoot beams from his eyes. For example, there could be symbiotic micro-organisms in the water.

And when you try to find a pseudo-scientific reason for magic, you ruin the fantasy. Besides, those kind of comic book pseudo-scientific explanations for things like mysticism and Lazarus pits (or Norse gods even) are not any more realistic or believable than straight up magic.
What's wrong with accepting the fantastic for what it is?

 

[Fincher]

And when you try to find a pseudo-scientific reason for magic, you ruin the fantasy. Besides, those kind of comic book pseudo-scientific explanations for things like mysticism and Lazarus pits (or Norse gods even) are not any more realistic or believable than straight up magic.
What's wrong with accepting the fantastic for what it is?

I find the explanation I gave more believable in real world terms than a mystical fountain, and if the Lazarus Pit was a real thing, scientists would want to observe it and find an explanation rooted in science rather than shrug and say it must be magic. Regardless, all this comes down to whether I penalize Season 3 or Season 4 for introducing "magic", since either way it still doesn't mesh with how the show started.