Marvel Films The Marvel Studios News and Discussion Thread

[psylockolussus]

Fantastic 4 isn't guaranteed for success.

If Thunderbolts*/Sam Wilson flop, that would flop too.

 

[Filmfreak]

Fantastic 4 isn't guaranteed for success.

If Thunderbolts*/Sam Wilson flop, that would flop too.

That's why I said "probably" and not "definitely". I think F4 has more chances compared to the other two, but it's going to heavily depend on the quality of the film and the rest of the characters that are going to be featured. I agree, however, it doesn't have the IP recognition some think it has in general audience, and the previous attempts surely must have damaged the brand up to some extent.

Deadpool, Spider-Man and The Avengers are the only ones I see as guaranteed hits and even they have to be a bit careful with their budgets.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I mean, there has been a decline in 80% of superhero content in general in the last year and a half, it's not just with Marvel. Nor is it coincidental that their two and only huge box office bombs happened in the same year. The decline is obvious and it's real. Same for TV when numbers have been going down with each show.

And judging on the content on both films and shows, profit will be the exception in the future, unless they really change things up. Deadpool and F4 will probably be successful, but Sam Wilson, Thunderbolts, War Machine and Blade (if it doesn't have a small budget) are almost guaranteed to flop at this point. And equally Daredevil will probably be a hit, but then you have Agatha, Ironheart and Wonder Man, so yeah. I feel comfortable in believing that the pattern is real, but for those who don't buy it yet, I guess you're going to have to wait and see.

Things like Thunderbolts are too far along. When you make changes in how you manage a studio, you don't usually feel that new direction for essentially 3 years cause even a fast tracked movie takes 3 years to develop on average. Lately MCU films have been on that train longer. So these things like Wonder Man or Agatha or Thunderbolts are happening. Nothing changes it and we will have to see what they do. But when this new policy really gets started, then you focus on Doctor Strange, FF (if it does well), X-Men, etc. They easily can support 2 or 3 releases a year. Last year was bad for CBMs. But most of what failed also reviewed poorly. GOTG3 and ATSV thrived. Just get that train back on track with some trusted IPs, and they'll be fine.

 

[Chris B]

Saying the likes of Thunderbolts and Armor Wars being guaranteed flops feels a bit extreme to me. Not to deny that the MCU is having problems, but I should think that a lot of their problem right now is that the decline in quality post-Endgame has finally started to catch up with them. If something like Thunderbolts ultimately proves to be a good film, I don't see why it can't be successful.

The goal right now, and their recent comments suggest they know this, is to focus on rebuilding the good will they've lost with audiences.

 

[psylockolussus]

Birds of Prey was fine, much better than Suicide Squad 2016 and several Dceu movies, but it didn't attract a lot of attention. So I don't really agree just because something is good, people would show up. The movie still needs to be appealing and goodwill from previous films is certainly a factor.

Thunderbolts* should at least perform better than the Marvels, as I think the early summer release would benefit it. But it is still not a very appealing project for the general public. If the "reports" for Brave New World, turned out to be much worse and its problems showed up in the actual film, that would be another hurdle for Thunderbolts* and Fantastic 4.

I also think Deadpool/Wolverine are a bit far out from Brave New World, so I don't think the goodwill from that movie would benefit Brave New World that much next February. There's also Venom/Kraven coming out in Q4 which won't help the general perception for recent Marvel movies.

 

[psylockolussus]

That's why I said "probably" and not "definitely". I think F4 has more chances compared to the other two, but it's going to heavily depend on the quality of the film and the rest of the characters that are going to be featured. I agree, however, it doesn't have the IP recognition some think it has in general audience, and the previous attempts surely must have damaged the brand up to some extent.

Deadpool, Spider-Man and The Avengers are the only ones I see as guaranteed hits and even they have to be a bit careful with their budgets.

A third Black Panther and Doctor Strange movie should be fine as well, especially they were very successful just 1 to 2 years ago. But like you said they need to be careful with the budgeting. A trilogy should at least be the end game or goal for those two ips.

I want Marvel Studios to have this line up for 2026 to 2028.
2026: Avengers (May), Spider-Man (Jul or Dec), Shang-Chi (Sep)
2027: Dr. Strange (Feb), Avengers (May), Black Panther (Nov)
2028: X-Men (May), Fantastic 4.2 (Jul or Dec)

I have 3 film movies for 2026/27 simply because the gap between the sequels are getting longer and those sequels should be released asap especially Shang-Chi. Then 2028 onwards, they could focus on releasing two movies and release a new Avengers movie every 3 years again after The Multiverse Saga.

If Avengers 5 is delayed to 2027 which I think is possible, then:
2026: Shang-Chi (May), Spider-Man (Jul or Dec)
2027: Dr. Strange (Feb), Avengers (May), Black Panther (Nov 2027 or Feb 2028)
2028: Avengers (May), Fantastic 4.2 (Jul or Dec)
2029: X-Men (May)

No Blade (I'll save it until the Mcu is super strong). No Armor Wars. No sequel to Thunderbolts*, Brave New World, Ant-Man 3 and Thor 4. I would love to see another Captain Marvel film and even Eternals 2, if its possible but there's already too many just for 2026 to 2028.

I also think they shouldn't launch the new X-Men in the same year as an Avengers movie. I'll save the new X-Men when the Multiverse Saga is already over.

 

[Filmfreak]

Things like Thunderbolts are too far along. When you make changes in how you manage a studio, you don't usually feel that new direction for essentially 3 years cause even a fast tracked movie takes 3 years to develop on average. Lately MCU films have been on that train longer. So these things like Wonder Man or Agatha or Thunderbolts are happening. Nothing changes it and we will have to see what they do. But when this new policy really gets started, then you focus on Doctor Strange, FF (if it does well), X-Men, etc. They easily can support 2 or 3 releases a year. Last year was bad for CBMs. But most of what failed also reviewed poorly. GOTG3 and ATSV thrived. Just get that train back on track with some trusted IPs, and they'll be fine.

I don't disagree with most of that. It just doesn't seem that the audience is there for the MCU or even blockbusters in general like they used to be. Too many movies have already done some damage and three a year is certainly not that different to reverse it. More interesting content certainly could to some extent, but I also don't think that Feige can deliver the way he used to and it's not just the matter of quantity that hurt the quality. We've reached a point where the universe is just not that interesting creatively and it feels a bit burnt out.

I think the next couple of years are going to make all these even more apparent.

 

[DyeLorean]

Well I think spectacle for spectacle's sake just isn't enough anymore. For me the key to unlock their quality is, surprise surprise, good stories and character development.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

Deadpool, Spider-Man and The Avengers are the only ones I see as guaranteed hits and even they have to be a bit careful with their budgets.

Avengers is literally what makes most Marvel movie franchises popular with the general masses. It's the oar in the water that keeps the boat moving. Without Avengers, only a select few heroes would have ever had significant cinematic success. Marvel drastically overestimated their ability to coast on Phase 1-3 momentum without dipping the oar back in the water.

 

[psylockolussus]

I think at least one of the three MCU films next year will flop. Unless Marvel Studios somehow lower the budget for Thunderbolts* and Fantastic 4. I don't see any of these films hitting $500 million worldwide, unless they are very good and have great legs at the box office. So in a way, I want Fantastic 4 to come out in May 2026 rather than July 2025, so it would have more chance at the box office.

Brave New World's budget is gonna be higher since they are doing extensive reshoots to make the film "better" which imo is a big red flag. It really should have been out by now or at least before 2025.

Its a good thing, Blade still can't get the ball rolling, as they probably dodged having a flop Blade movie in 2025.

 

[psylockolussus]

Agatha All Along - September 18, 2024
Daredevil - March 2025
Ironheart - 2025

Interestingly, they dropped Marvel Studios from the logo of the shows, and changed it to Marvel Television. Similar to how we now see Marvel Animation with X-Men '97 in the intro and above its logo. I guess they will keep "Marvel Studios" in the credits but hide them in promos. I wonder if they will use "Marvel Films" for the feature films, to differentiate the projects under Marvel Studios more.

 

[DyeLorean]

Marvel Television sounds even cheaper now.
I think they just want to differentiate the theatrical from the small screen releases since most TV shows have damaged the Marvel Studios banner.

 

[psylockolussus]

Its definitely damage control. But I also think "Marvel Studios" is losing its spark, when its visibly seen at the top of the logo of Echo, Secret Invasion, etc.

I like that they are doing something about it, though I just hope Kevin Feige would completely focus 100% on the movies because thats the main dish. I'm sure they can find someone to oversee Marvel Television and Marvel Animation.

 

[Venom 1988]

Its definitely damage control. But I also think "Marvel Studios" is losing its spark, when its visibly seen at the top of the logo of Echo, Secret Invasion, etc.

I like that they are doing something about it, though I just hope Kevin Feige would completely focus 100% on the movies because thats the main dish. I'm sure they can find someone to oversee Marvel Television and Marvel Animation.

I mean they already do, it's Brad Winderbaum. He has been head of TV, Animation and Streaming since 2021. Though I honeslty think prior to Secret Invasion bombing, he didn't have full control of everything (especially given all the reports about the various execs handling the shows). He has been involved with the shows since Hawkeye and the only time he ever gave interviews for anything was just What If and I am Groot.

Echo was the first live action show Brad promoted and it seemed like he was everywhere on the press tour for it. And since then then it seems he has been more of the forefront everything TV related so that's good. Then that leave Feige more focus on the movies. Tough like I mentioned earlier, he's not going to be completly 100% divorced from the TV side since he is Brad's boss. I do think in the next few years they are gonna promote someone to the position of head of films specifically though.

 

[blueharvest]

 

[Filmfreak]

For now mostly seems like damage control for those who stopped watching their content because they couldn't keep up but we'll see.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

So what Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D should have been all along. Maybe Cloak & Dagger got it right before their bonus episode on Runaways

 

[OrbOfConfusion]

Rebranding? A good chunk of pre Disney+ Marvel TV shows were like this already. You didn't need to see First Avenger to enjoy Agent Carter, though it would've added context. Cloak and Dagger, Runaways, even the Netflix shows weren't beholden to the grander MCU continuity and could be enjoyed in their own separate corners of the MCU. I mean, "They're interconnected, but they're not"? Which is it?

Of course something like Born Again will probably have some connections to Echo and She-Hulk, given Matt's prior adventures, and same with Agatha being connected to Wandavision (three years later), but this approach just sounds like a retreated of what Marvel Television once was. Which begs the question, why even get rid of Jeph Loeb?

 

[Venom 1988]

Which begs the question, why even get rid of Jeph Loeb?

The karate outfit at Comic-Con probably didn't do him any favors.

A more serious answer though (and it's just my speculation) is probably cause of Ike Perlmutter and Alan Fine. They oversaw the creation of Marvel Television and had a much tighter control over it than they did Marvel Studios. Given all the infighting between them and Feige, I would imagine Ike/Fine probably wanted to hire people who either wouldn't question their decisions or were more aligned more to their thinking.

And since Loeb was their hire, Feige/Disney probably just wanted a fresh start for the TV side of things. The problem is they didn't have a proper replacement for him right away. Winderbaum got promoted to this position 2 years after Loeb was gone and even then it didn't seem like he had as much control over things until the last 6 or so months. That and the lack of showrunners for shows, so there was never a clear indication of who exactly was in charge. So you had Head Writers, Directors and Producers essentially fighting for control on things.

 

[psylockolussus]

Jeph Loeb wasn't a good overseer. I do think Marvel Studios' tv shows are much better than what we got from preDisney+ era shows, AOS to Helstrom. WandaVision is much better than AOS. Secret Invasion isn't as bad as Inhumans, Helstrom and Iron Fist.

However, they still need to trim down the number of original Marvel content they are pumping out every year. When there's literally 60+ live action Marvel movies released since 1998, more or less 20 live action Marvel tv shows and countless cartoons (that is older than the movies) that are instantly accessible in Disney+ - its really going to be harder for the general public to be that invested to a new Marvel project and really make them a big success. The Marvels' box office flop was a big result of heavy load of Marvel content in streaming in a very short period of time.

Disney really needs to stopover-relying on original Marvel content. They've burnt out a lot of people as a result. And end of the day - Marvel Studios, Marvel Animation, Marvel Television, Marvel Spotlight are all .

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

The problem for Disney+ is that a good percentage of the fan base already owns their best on physical media. So how do you draw those to a subscription if new content is not added? That goes for the genre Marvel and Star Wars as well as the children's Disney Princess movies. 30 new hours a year probably isn't going to maintain subscriptions. Marvel and Star Wars are being counted on to repay their acquisition cost. With the Infinity Saga over and a new generation now coming in the guaranteed multigenerational box office of bringing in their grandparents watching their childhood fantasies is drying up.

 

[psylockolussus]

The problem for Disney+ is that a good percentage of the fan base already owns their best on physical media. So how do you draw those to a subscription if new content is not added? That goes for the genre Marvel and Star Wars as well as the children's Disney Princess movies. 30 new hours a year probably isn't going to maintain subscriptions. Marvel and Star Wars are being counted on to repay their acquisition cost. With the Infinity Saga over and a new generation now coming in the guaranteed multigenerational box office of bringing in their grandparents watching their childhood fantasies is drying up.

Thats why they need other ips to sell Disney+. For example, Netflix doesn't really rely on a few franchises to remain on top.

Disney+ cannot afford to release 3 to 4 Marvel movies + 3 to 5 shows (live action/cartoons) every year, and without any of those being a financial loss. I think the cartoons are being made with a cheaper budget (or else we would have gotten fancy 3D animation/blockbuster-like animation like The Bad Batch). The live action stuff though is much complicated. A $50 million budget for a film and a Marvel series can look really cheap especially if the budget isn't utilized well. She Hulk and Secret Invasion didn't look like their reported budget.

 

[psylockolussus]

Vision MCU Series Sets Disney+ Release Date Window, Showrunner - Comic Book Movies and Superhero Movie News - SuperHeroHype

Marvel has officially set the release date for a planned upcoming series based on Paul Bettany's character Vision, according to Variety.

www.superherohype.com

2026

 

[Cap2024]

The problem for Disney+ is that a good percentage of the fan base already owns their best on physical media. So how do you draw those to a subscription if new content is not added? That goes for the genre Marvel and Star Wars as well as the children's Disney Princess movies. 30 new hours a year probably isn't going to maintain subscriptions. Marvel and Star Wars are being counted on to repay their acquisition cost. With the Infinity Saga over and a new generation now coming in the guaranteed multigenerational box office of bringing in their grandparents watching their childhood fantasies is drying up.

I think here it's less amount of "TV" content than it is how the content is approached.

Marvel's and Star Wars' (for the most part) recent method - an endless string of one seasons which doesn't leave them much time to build a following. Restricting live action shows to basically animated show lengths.

Vs.

Netflix's Marvel method - shows with lots of one hour episodes over multiple seasons allowing more of an opportunity for growth. Only a couple of core key interconnected series that are all noticeably building up to the same end point.

Netflix was operating how TV shows are typically ran, Disney Plus' method - to my knowledge, they're the only ones oddly managing shows like many limited series.

If I was to guess, Disney Plus is trying to manage it like long-form films rather than like television shows which leads to a wonky pacing that I'm sure many have noticed.

The Netflix Marvel shows were running adjacent to the golden years of the MCU. Thus, it can be done. Marvel just needs to return to placing more emphasis on focus.

For instance, instead of many very loosely connected one-offs. Imagine one series focused on Moon Knight, another Blade, another Ghost Rider, another Werewolf By Night with the promise that they would all come together in a 'Midnight Suns' series. It doesn't need to be 'Midnight Suns,' but that is to stress - Netflix's 'Defenders' structure had promise and structure which helped to make every one of its shows play as important.

 

[KevTravels]

What's the deal with zero info or confirmation on Armor Wars?