Marvel Films The Marvel Studios News and Discussion Thread

[Mr. Peanut]

I feel like Phase 1 had "newness feel" to them, especially when they just came out.

And I don't think Marvel Studios can replicate it again, even with films like Eternals/Shang-Chi, it just don't feel the same, compare to the early years of the MCU.

Yeah it's kind of impossible to artificially recreate the vibe of a franchise when it's first starting out.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Even if we could disregard the Disney+ shows, the three movies thing was happening at their peak, where everyone and their mother was watching those films. Now, after last year, they're literally at their very bottom and the movies that they're making are with characters audiences aren't resonating much. Bottom line, that made more sense when the plan was to have a number of sequels and many new heroes to introduce, but now making films like Eternals, Thunderbolts, Captain America 4 with Sam Wilson ain't cutting it box office-wise.

So three movies is still a lot within this new context. Now imagine having a couple of TV shows that directly related to the films as well. Yeah, sorry, the way I see it it's still more than they should be making.

We have to wait and see if last year was an anomaly or if they will see an ongoing decline. While there was some depreciation from movie to movie, they still made money on most of their recent output. Plus Iger has said they're going to focus more on less risky stuff, so it makes sense. There are a lot of IPs, and if you only do 1 or 2 movies a year, that means long turn around for sequels. Which is a problem they have now and one reason I would argue there is a decline. You need your heavy hitters to be more visible and more quickly. Luke by this stage, Shang-Chi should have had a sequel. Now when the sequel happens, it may not do what they hoped cause they waited too long, the good will isn't there as strongly, are the character didn't stay visible while there was a gap. So I think 2 or 3 movies a year is fine. They just have to focus on the right output. The TV side is the one that has more issues right now

 

[OrbOfConfusion]

Thor 1 had a lot of really awesome, memorable scenes. I miss the unique vibe Phase 1 often had compared to later phases.

Still the best Thor film in my opinion.

 

[psylockolussus]

Yeah it's kind of impossible to artificially recreate the vibe of a franchise when it's first starting out.

I feel like Shang-Chi and Eternals, despite being "different" from the previous mcu films since they were new Ips to the mcu, didn't feel that brand new because there were a lot of other projects released in 2021. We got 4 live action shows, What If? cartoon and we got two more films featuring familiar faces. It was an mcu explosion in 2021 - after a year of zero new release. Shang-Chi and Eternals were just two of the many projects at that time.

i feel like in hindsight, Phase 4 should have been the breather that mcu needed after the gigantic success of Phase 3. They were still successful during phase 4 (box office wise) though it ultimately led to diminishing quality and in phase 5, box office drops.

Next year, will be interesting, if they continue to drop or if those 3 films they are releasing somehow collect big numbers. The live action shows, I don't care anymore, they are merely background noise for me. I just hope if the future shows somehow become really successful or popular, that Disney won't get greedy by ordering more shows.

Imagine if Pixar were releasing at least 3 movies per year, and at least two shows. Their output would have been worse. I don't think I've seen any franchise with this much output in such a short period of time. I can't name any Hollywood film franchise that has 33 films plus a bunch of shows connected to it. Its crazy and things could have been worse especially if this was under Sony, the old Fox and WB.

 

[Filmfreak]

We have to wait and see if last year was an anomaly or if they will see an ongoing decline. While there was some depreciation from movie to movie, they still made money on most of their recent output. Plus Iger has said they're going to focus more on less risky stuff, so it makes sense. There are a lot of IPs, and if you only do 1 or 2 movies a year, that means long turn around for sequels. Which is a problem they have now and one reason I would argue there is a decline. You need your heavy hitters to be more visible and more quickly. Luke by this stage, Shang-Chi should have had a sequel. Now when the sequel happens, it may not do what they hoped cause they waited too long, the good will isn't there as strongly, are the character didn't stay visible while there was a gap. So I think 2 or 3 movies a year is fine. They just have to focus on the right output. The TV side is the one that has more issues right now

I mean, there has been a decline in 80% of superhero content in general in the last year and a half, it's not just with Marvel. Nor is it coincidental that their two and only huge box office bombs happened in the same year. The decline is obvious and it's real. Same for TV when numbers have been going down with each show.

And judging on the content on both films and shows, profit will be the exception in the future, unless they really change things up. Deadpool and F4 will probably be successful, but Sam Wilson, Thunderbolts, War Machine and Blade (if it doesn't have a small budget) are almost guaranteed to flop at this point. And equally Daredevil will probably be a hit, but then you have Agatha, Ironheart and Wonder Man, so yeah. I feel comfortable in believing that the pattern is real, but for those who don't buy it yet, I guess you're going to have to wait and see.

 

[psylockolussus]

Fantastic 4 isn't guaranteed for success.

If Thunderbolts*/Sam Wilson flop, that would flop too.

 

[Filmfreak]

Fantastic 4 isn't guaranteed for success.

If Thunderbolts*/Sam Wilson flop, that would flop too.

That's why I said "probably" and not "definitely". I think F4 has more chances compared to the other two, but it's going to heavily depend on the quality of the film and the rest of the characters that are going to be featured. I agree, however, it doesn't have the IP recognition some think it has in general audience, and the previous attempts surely must have damaged the brand up to some extent.

Deadpool, Spider-Man and The Avengers are the only ones I see as guaranteed hits and even they have to be a bit careful with their budgets.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I mean, there has been a decline in 80% of superhero content in general in the last year and a half, it's not just with Marvel. Nor is it coincidental that their two and only huge box office bombs happened in the same year. The decline is obvious and it's real. Same for TV when numbers have been going down with each show.

And judging on the content on both films and shows, profit will be the exception in the future, unless they really change things up. Deadpool and F4 will probably be successful, but Sam Wilson, Thunderbolts, War Machine and Blade (if it doesn't have a small budget) are almost guaranteed to flop at this point. And equally Daredevil will probably be a hit, but then you have Agatha, Ironheart and Wonder Man, so yeah. I feel comfortable in believing that the pattern is real, but for those who don't buy it yet, I guess you're going to have to wait and see.

Things like Thunderbolts are too far along. When you make changes in how you manage a studio, you don't usually feel that new direction for essentially 3 years cause even a fast tracked movie takes 3 years to develop on average. Lately MCU films have been on that train longer. So these things like Wonder Man or Agatha or Thunderbolts are happening. Nothing changes it and we will have to see what they do. But when this new policy really gets started, then you focus on Doctor Strange, FF (if it does well), X-Men, etc. They easily can support 2 or 3 releases a year. Last year was bad for CBMs. But most of what failed also reviewed poorly. GOTG3 and ATSV thrived. Just get that train back on track with some trusted IPs, and they'll be fine.

 

[Chris B]

Saying the likes of Thunderbolts and Armor Wars being guaranteed flops feels a bit extreme to me. Not to deny that the MCU is having problems, but I should think that a lot of their problem right now is that the decline in quality post-Endgame has finally started to catch up with them. If something like Thunderbolts ultimately proves to be a good film, I don't see why it can't be successful.

The goal right now, and their recent comments suggest they know this, is to focus on rebuilding the good will they've lost with audiences.

 

[psylockolussus]

Birds of Prey was fine, much better than Suicide Squad 2016 and several Dceu movies, but it didn't attract a lot of attention. So I don't really agree just because something is good, people would show up. The movie still needs to be appealing and goodwill from previous films is certainly a factor.

Thunderbolts* should at least perform better than the Marvels, as I think the early summer release would benefit it. But it is still not a very appealing project for the general public. If the "reports" for Brave New World, turned out to be much worse and its problems showed up in the actual film, that would be another hurdle for Thunderbolts* and Fantastic 4.

I also think Deadpool/Wolverine are a bit far out from Brave New World, so I don't think the goodwill from that movie would benefit Brave New World that much next February. There's also Venom/Kraven coming out in Q4 which won't help the general perception for recent Marvel movies.

 

[psylockolussus]

That's why I said "probably" and not "definitely". I think F4 has more chances compared to the other two, but it's going to heavily depend on the quality of the film and the rest of the characters that are going to be featured. I agree, however, it doesn't have the IP recognition some think it has in general audience, and the previous attempts surely must have damaged the brand up to some extent.

Deadpool, Spider-Man and The Avengers are the only ones I see as guaranteed hits and even they have to be a bit careful with their budgets.

A third Black Panther and Doctor Strange movie should be fine as well, especially they were very successful just 1 to 2 years ago. But like you said they need to be careful with the budgeting. A trilogy should at least be the end game or goal for those two ips.

I want Marvel Studios to have this line up for 2026 to 2028.
2026: Avengers (May), Spider-Man (Jul or Dec), Shang-Chi (Sep)
2027: Dr. Strange (Feb), Avengers (May), Black Panther (Nov)
2028: X-Men (May), Fantastic 4.2 (Jul or Dec)

I have 3 film movies for 2026/27 simply because the gap between the sequels are getting longer and those sequels should be released asap especially Shang-Chi. Then 2028 onwards, they could focus on releasing two movies and release a new Avengers movie every 3 years again after The Multiverse Saga.

If Avengers 5 is delayed to 2027 which I think is possible, then:
2026: Shang-Chi (May), Spider-Man (Jul or Dec)
2027: Dr. Strange (Feb), Avengers (May), Black Panther (Nov 2027 or Feb 2028)
2028: Avengers (May), Fantastic 4.2 (Jul or Dec)
2029: X-Men (May)

No Blade (I'll save it until the Mcu is super strong). No Armor Wars. No sequel to Thunderbolts*, Brave New World, Ant-Man 3 and Thor 4. I would love to see another Captain Marvel film and even Eternals 2, if its possible but there's already too many just for 2026 to 2028.

I also think they shouldn't launch the new X-Men in the same year as an Avengers movie. I'll save the new X-Men when the Multiverse Saga is already over.

 

[Filmfreak]

Things like Thunderbolts are too far along. When you make changes in how you manage a studio, you don't usually feel that new direction for essentially 3 years cause even a fast tracked movie takes 3 years to develop on average. Lately MCU films have been on that train longer. So these things like Wonder Man or Agatha or Thunderbolts are happening. Nothing changes it and we will have to see what they do. But when this new policy really gets started, then you focus on Doctor Strange, FF (if it does well), X-Men, etc. They easily can support 2 or 3 releases a year. Last year was bad for CBMs. But most of what failed also reviewed poorly. GOTG3 and ATSV thrived. Just get that train back on track with some trusted IPs, and they'll be fine.

I don't disagree with most of that. It just doesn't seem that the audience is there for the MCU or even blockbusters in general like they used to be. Too many movies have already done some damage and three a year is certainly not that different to reverse it. More interesting content certainly could to some extent, but I also don't think that Feige can deliver the way he used to and it's not just the matter of quantity that hurt the quality. We've reached a point where the universe is just not that interesting creatively and it feels a bit burnt out.

I think the next couple of years are going to make all these even more apparent.

 

[DyeLorean]

Well I think spectacle for spectacle's sake just isn't enough anymore. For me the key to unlock their quality is, surprise surprise, good stories and character development.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

Deadpool, Spider-Man and The Avengers are the only ones I see as guaranteed hits and even they have to be a bit careful with their budgets.

Avengers is literally what makes most Marvel movie franchises popular with the general masses. It's the oar in the water that keeps the boat moving. Without Avengers, only a select few heroes would have ever had significant cinematic success. Marvel drastically overestimated their ability to coast on Phase 1-3 momentum without dipping the oar back in the water.

 

[psylockolussus]

I think at least one of the three MCU films next year will flop. Unless Marvel Studios somehow lower the budget for Thunderbolts* and Fantastic 4. I don't see any of these films hitting $500 million worldwide, unless they are very good and have great legs at the box office. So in a way, I want Fantastic 4 to come out in May 2026 rather than July 2025, so it would have more chance at the box office.

Brave New World's budget is gonna be higher since they are doing extensive reshoots to make the film "better" which imo is a big red flag. It really should have been out by now or at least before 2025.

Its a good thing, Blade still can't get the ball rolling, as they probably dodged having a flop Blade movie in 2025.

 

[psylockolussus]

Agatha All Along - September 18, 2024
Daredevil - March 2025
Ironheart - 2025

Interestingly, they dropped Marvel Studios from the logo of the shows, and changed it to Marvel Television. Similar to how we now see Marvel Animation with X-Men '97 in the intro and above its logo. I guess they will keep "Marvel Studios" in the credits but hide them in promos. I wonder if they will use "Marvel Films" for the feature films, to differentiate the projects under Marvel Studios more.

 

[DyeLorean]

Marvel Television sounds even cheaper now.
I think they just want to differentiate the theatrical from the small screen releases since most TV shows have damaged the Marvel Studios banner.

 

[psylockolussus]

Its definitely damage control. But I also think "Marvel Studios" is losing its spark, when its visibly seen at the top of the logo of Echo, Secret Invasion, etc.

I like that they are doing something about it, though I just hope Kevin Feige would completely focus 100% on the movies because thats the main dish. I'm sure they can find someone to oversee Marvel Television and Marvel Animation.

 

[Venom 1988]

Its definitely damage control. But I also think "Marvel Studios" is losing its spark, when its visibly seen at the top of the logo of Echo, Secret Invasion, etc.

I like that they are doing something about it, though I just hope Kevin Feige would completely focus 100% on the movies because thats the main dish. I'm sure they can find someone to oversee Marvel Television and Marvel Animation.

I mean they already do, it's Brad Winderbaum. He has been head of TV, Animation and Streaming since 2021. Though I honeslty think prior to Secret Invasion bombing, he didn't have full control of everything (especially given all the reports about the various execs handling the shows). He has been involved with the shows since Hawkeye and the only time he ever gave interviews for anything was just What If and I am Groot.

Echo was the first live action show Brad promoted and it seemed like he was everywhere on the press tour for it. And since then then it seems he has been more of the forefront everything TV related so that's good. Then that leave Feige more focus on the movies. Tough like I mentioned earlier, he's not going to be completly 100% divorced from the TV side since he is Brad's boss. I do think in the next few years they are gonna promote someone to the position of head of films specifically though.

 

[blueharvest]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1792272206929465716