2014 Global Ebola Outbreak

[Anita18]

Of course.

Doesn't surprise me. At all. It's a tragedy all around. The only thing I can do is cause instead of patients dying from medical errors, it's their own, and the blood is on the institution's hands, literally.

I didn't work in the clinical side of healthcare, but it's the same for academic research. If you end up working for someone who cares about proper training and proper safety, you are LUCKY.

I was one of the lucky ones. My boss had a culture of "This is how we're gonna do things, cause it's the right way to do things" and he also nurtured a culture of psychological safety. He encouraged us to ask anyone anytime if we needed help. Sounds like really basic stuff, but there's so much "I know what I'm doing and you'd better know what you're doing too (or fake it!)" macho posturing in healthcare and research, that people are AFRAID to speak up when they need help. Or if they do speak up, they are ignored because it's only them who are stupid, everything else is under control.

I'll bet anyone a million dollars that's exactly what happened at this Dallas hospital. I've seen it where I work - grad students come through our lab on rotation and they are relieved and surprised when my boss trains them directly. All of them had to figure things out on their own, in molecular biology labs with potentially dangerous chemicals.

It's sad. Not only does healthcare policy need to change, healthcare culture needs to change.


I feel very strongly about this because just a few years ago, a fellow grad from my college DIED after starting her first lab job at another uni. (I didn't know her, but I knew her older sister.) She was improperly trained to handle a chemical that would catch on fire if it touched air and they let her do it unsupervised on her second attempt. It caught fire and splashed on her and she was severely burned. She died several weeks later from her injuries. The uni and the prof were fined and felony charges were brought against them, but the prof pleaded out of criminal liability by accepting community service and probation.

And I see not much has changed. How many people have to die from improper or inadequate training (healthcare workers AND patients?) until the culture changes? UGH.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

So this nurse knowingly came in contact with someone with ebola and the first thing she does instead of lay low is take a flight to Cleveland to plan a wedding.

People's selfishness and denial is going to doom us all.

But at least she'll have that wedding as planned, right?

 

[Teelie]

I know a few people in the healthcare profession and they are definitely ill-trained or ill-equipped even if they are trained because healthcare is more about profit than care these days.

 

[Anita18]

So this nurse knowingly came in contact with someone with ebola and the first thing she does instead of lay low is take a flight to Cleveland to plan a wedding.

People's selfishness and denial is going to doom us all.

But at least she'll have that wedding as planned, right?

You can't quarantine every nurse who comes in contact with an Ebola patient. That's ridiculous. Nobody would show up to work at the hospital if that was mandated. She didn't know she was exposed until she got a fever days later. She worked with crappy protocols, but assumed that they would be enough and it was bad luck that it wasn't.

I'm sure the people in Cleveland and on the plane are fine.

 

[craigdbfan]

It still pretty selfish though Anita. I have no experience in the medical field but I know that if I was handling the residue of someone infected with a level 4 pathogen while being completely unequipped for it that I would now be a high risk individual.

It's hard for me to fathom a nurse who would think they'd be safe to travel by having any exposed area skin around this virus. Way too many people I feel are underestimating this virus and treating it almost like the common flu. Either she's incredibly naive or incredibly dumb and reckless.

 

[Anita18]

It still pretty selfish though Anita. I have no experience in the medical field but I know that if I was handling the residue of someone infected with a level 4 pathogen while being completely unequipped for it that I would now be a high risk individual.

It's hard for me to fathom a nurse who would think they'd be safe to travel by having any exposed area skin around this virus. Way too many people I feel are underestimating this virus and treating it almost like the common flu. Either she's incredibly naive or incredibly dumb and reckless.

And if she quarantined herself and refused to show up for work per your reasoning, she would be fired. There is FAR greater danger of her passing it on in the hospital setting than on a plane where she was barely (if even) running a fever.

That's the reality that those Dallas nurses are working in. They have to assume that they are not exposed, otherwise they're living a hypocrisy just by showing up.


It's not about individual responsibility at the end of the day, but about the system that we have to work with. It's easy for us to say that we would do something different, outside of their system. If the system is telling you you have to try your best despite crappy protocols, and to keep working, you HAVE to assume that you're safe. The cognitive dissonance would be too much otherwise.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

You can't quarantine every nurse who comes in contact with an Ebola patient. That's ridiculous. Nobody would show up to work at the hospital if that was mandated. She didn't know she was exposed until she got a fever days later. She worked with crappy protocols, but assumed that they would be enough and it was bad luck that it wasn't.

I'm sure the people in Cleveland and on the plane are fine.

They didn't have to quarantine her but she didn't have travel on a commercial flight either.

Plus the nurse had a fever when she got on the plane.

That wasn't selfish and short-sighted?

 

[Anita18]

They didn't have to quarantine her but she didn't have travel on a commercial flight either.

Plus the nurse had a fever when she got on the plane.

That wasn't selfish and short-sighted?

Yeah I just read that she had a low-grade fever when she flew. THAT is stupid, yes, and I'm totally judging her bridezilla self for doing that.

But I still don't think it's reasonable to quarantine every nurse who's been in contact with an Ebola patient. That means not showing up for work, and we simply don't have enough trained nurses for that. It is not possible, which is why it's SO important to get the protocols and proper equipment in place so they don't have to mandate ridiculous things like nurse quarantine.

Also, Ebola is barely contagious when someone has a fever. As I said, the viral load is just too low. It will only be a few more days until Duncan's fiancee and relatives will be free of quarantine. They LIVED with him while he was becoming dangerously ill, and haven't fallen ill yet themselves. They might be free and clear. I think that part is important and worth noting.

It was the nurses who were with him as he lay dying that got the illness easily even wearing (albeit improper) PPE, not the people living with him without any protection when he wasn't on his deathbed.

 

[Howlett]

Yeah I just read that she had a low-grade fever when she flew. THAT is stupid, yes, and I'm totally judging her bridezilla self for doing that.

But I still don't think it's reasonable to quarantine every nurse who's been in contact with an Ebola patient. That means not showing up for work, and we simply don't have enough trained nurses for that. It is not possible, which is why it's SO important to get the protocols and proper equipment in place so they don't have to mandate ridiculous things like nurse quarantine.

Quarantining every nurse who has been around an Ebola patient is definitely not reasonable, but keeping them off of flights or traveling around a lot is pretty reasonable.

 

[Schlosser85]

All this flying around between Ebola hotspots and the rest of the world should be banned anyway for the duration of this crisis.

And idiots like the guy in Dallas who helped a violently convulsing, vomiting, obviously Ebola-infected woman into a taxi and drove her around and then lied to get on an international flight, stopped in Cleveland, and went home to his family in Dallas, should be quarantined in the country they're exposed in. Do not pass go, do not collect one hundred dollars.

 

[craigdbfan]

All this flying around between Ebola hotspots and the rest of the world should be banned anyway for the duration of this crisis.

And idiots like the guy in Dallas who helped a violently convulsing, vomiting, obviously Ebola-infected woman into a taxi and drove her around and then lied to get on an international flight, stopped in Cleveland, and went home to his family in Dallas, should be quarantined in the country they're exposed in. Do not pass go, do not collect one hundred dollars.

Yes, yes and more yes!

We should have done that from the beginning but it seems like we're adamant about having Ebola chilling stateside.

 

[Howlett]

All this flying around between Ebola hotspots and the rest of the world should be banned anyway for the duration of this crisis.

And idiots like the guy in Dallas who helped a violently convulsing, vomiting, obviously Ebola-infected woman into a taxi and drove her around and then lied to get on an international flight, stopped in Cleveland, and went home to his family in Dallas, should be quarantined in the country they're exposed in. Do not pass go, do not collect one hundred dollars.

Yes, yes and more yes!

We should have done that from the beginning but it seems like we're adamant about having Ebola chilling stateside.

I've seen studies and research that shows cutting off air travel and isolating Africa will actually make it worse as it will spread across Africa and into other countries even faster. The best case scenario is that it has to be contained in Africa first. And leaving them to fend for themselves is not going to do that.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

The CDC has lost too much credibility now. They want to keep people calm but they are acting like 99.6 fever is no worry so she can fly. You're sick and have been around someone with Ebola....idiot.


The entire nursing staff is going to be in lockdown. The next few days are gonna be crazy.

 

[craigdbfan]

I've seen studies and research that shows cutting off air travel and isolating Africa will actually make it worse as it will spread across Africa and into other countries even faster. The best case scenario is that it has to be contained in Africa first. And leaving them to fend for themselves is not going to do that.

I wouldn't ban medical staff going there but the general public does nothing but increase the chances exponentially to spread the virus all across the globe.

It should be limited to medical staff and that's it. It doesn't give us an edge by having John Doe going in and out of West Africa.

 

[Howlett]

The CDC has lost too much credibility now. They want to keep people calm but they are acting like 99.6 fever is no worry so she can fly. You're sick and have been around someone with Ebola....idiot.


The entire nursing staff is going to be in lockdown. The next few days are gonna be crazy.

How is that the CDC's fault? This woman should have known she was not supposed to be flying. This is a case of the nurse not following the proper protocol.

 

[Anita18]

The CDC has lost too much credibility now. They want to keep people calm but they are acting like 99.6 fever is no worry so she can fly. You're sick and have been around someone with Ebola....idiot.

Please. 100.4F is the official definition for "feverish" in a human adult. People often go from 97F to 99F in the course of a day without being sick.

So no, if she had a 99.6F fever, then it wasn't REALLY worth noting on an official basis, although getting on a plane like that still wasn't the best decision in case she got worse, which she did.

 

[Red Mask]

I wouldn't ban medical staff going there but the general public does nothing but increase the chances exponentially to spread the virus all across the globe.

It should be limited to medical staff and that's it. It doesn't give us an edge by having John Doe going in and out of West Africa.

No, it's already been said that completely cutting off travel from that region would only make it worse for them to contain the outbreak. They stop getting the resources needed and support to survive and the World is just ignoring a major problem. Survivors could then foster a growing resentment that the World doesn't care about them...again.

 

[Howlett]

I wouldn't ban medical staff going there but the general public does nothing but increase the chances exponentially to spread the virus all across the globe.

It should be limited to medical staff and that's it. It doesn't give us an edge by having John Doe going in and out of West Africa.

Well, then the problem becomes that people will find other ways out of the country and will be much harder to track and monitor. Which could lead to really large clusters of outbreaks making it spread really fast and a lot harder to contain.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Please. 100.4F is the official definition for "feverish" in a human adult. People often go from 97F to 99F in the course of a day without being sick.

So no, if she had a 99.6F fever, then it wasn't REALLY worth noting on an official basis, although getting on a plane like that still wasn't the best decision in case she got worse, which she did.

Thanks for cutting off my sentence. She is being monitored for Ebola. If she's possibly becoming feverish then yeah, no fly.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

How is that the CDC's fault? This woman should have known she was not supposed to be flying. This is a case of the nurse not following the proper protocol.

The CDC doesn't want to spread panic by acting like everyone with a fever is going to make you sick, but they also aren't being aggressive in being hands on with the hospitals as if every hospital in America is prepared. They aren't.

If every hospital could deal with a contagion based on some 6 min video then those 4 hospital wouldn't have special training.

 

[Schlosser85]

So far the US cases are people being careless idiots who knowingly at least highly risk exposing themselves to Ebola and then decide to go hop on a plane and go gallivanting off somewhere else.

More people die from the flu every year than Ebola, and it's less contagious than the common cold. You don't get it just from being around someone. Even people living in the Dallas man's apartment don't seem to be infected.

I'm not saying it's not a horrific disease, because it absolutely is, and I'm not saying people shouldn't be vigilant, but most of the defenses against Ebola are things you should be doing every day, like washing your hands.

And if you've been around someone with Ebola, and you have a fever or feel sick, don't get on a plane or go visit other people!!!

 

[Marvolo]

If anyone dies because that dumbass woman broke quarantine and flew half way across the country she should be charged with manslaughter and I hope the families of the victims file lawsuits against her selfish inconsiderate ass.

And the airport that let her on a plane need to be punished somehow too.

Maybe if people start getting thrown in jail for carelessly endangering lives people will start taking this **** seriously. Its sad that the possibility of agonizing death isnt already enough for them to take it serious.

At this point the best course of action is for local authorities to confiscate the license and passports of anyone in quarantine that way the fools cant travel and if they still try to drive somewhere tow their ****ing car, and if they still try to walk somewhere taze their ass and throw them back in their house and put an officer at their door.

P.S. To whoever changed the thread title, thank you.

 

[The Apocalypse]

This keep on getting more and more frightening each day. I understand the chances of a full blown outbreak in America are kind of slim but when you hear about this sort of carelessness, it makes you wonder.

 

[Marvolo]

Now Im hearing that the CDC told her she could fly!

She contacted them and told them she had a low grade fever, but they said it was safe to fly as long as her fever wasnt 104 degrees.

This country has gone completely ******ed.

 

[Marvin]

That the major powers didn't step in and Dustin Hoffman the situation during month one or two or three...etc I honestly can't get over that. At some point folks are going to have to realize we are all in this together and it shouldn't take things crossing your boarders or massive death tolls before you act. Granted there was some sort of action early on but all this talk of how difficult it is to quarantine a country would be replaced with quarantining a few villages.

What a shame.

You hear about a simian flu case you step in and put the kabosh on it asap, wherever it may be.