Bought/Thought Vertigo Baby!!! 2-8-12

[JewishHobbit]

Yeah, I've had vertigo since Sunday and it sucks. It's getting better but it's making reading a real chore!

Anyhow, due to financial issues I wasn't able to buy comics last week so I bought them this week along with my new ones. I'm too lazy and brain-wiped to check and see which ones go with each week so I'll just review them all:

Venom 13, 13.1 - I was going to pass on this but since our income tax return came in I thought I'd give it a shot. I actually did enjoy these two issues and since I've cut enough and there's an extra week in February I can actually afford to finish this out, I'll likely continue with the series.

Carnage U.S.A. 3 - While it's nothing amazing it is such a fun read. Being a big 90's an I've always loved Carnage and I love that Wells is turning him into a noteworthy villain again. He's talking trash to Captain America and just being psychotic. I almost wish Crain succeeded in having Carnage force Steve to kill a child. Could you imagine the repercussion of that?! Also, next issue... Venom! Sweet! I wish I'd have jumped on this stuff during the last mini because I love what Wells is doing. And Doppleganger!!!! Loves me some Dopple. I don't know what happened in the previous mini, though I know she was in it, but I feel like Shriek needs to be here for the family to be complete.

Defenders 3 - This series gets worse and worse. I called this one dropped but never quite convinced myself that I should really drop it so I told my wife to pick up this issue for a final chance. It's officially dropped. I might pick up issues or arcs that focus on Iron Fist but it's no longer an ongoing buy for me.

Secret Avengers 22 - Remender's run really starts here (after the teaser .1 issue) and I found it enjoyable. He writes a wonderful Beast and I like his handling of all the characters really. Future solicits mention a death of an Avenger and I can't help but to think it's going to be Eric O'Grady. I hope I'm wrong but we'll see. I'll be sticking with this title for now.

Avengers: X-Sanction 3 - An alright issue. The mini's not been bad but nothing amazing either. Cable taks out Rulk with Blaquesmith's help. I like seeing Blaquesmith back since the era he was involved in Cable's title was the best era on the title, and I'm pretty sure it was written by Loeb then as well. I hope this isn't some sort of trick and Blaquesmith can actually be a part of the future X-franchise. I'm real interested in the next issue though with Cable having to confront Hope and Scott.

X-Factor 231 -This was a good issue. The cover confused me at first. I thought it was Deathlok taking on Iron Man, then realized it was Cable taking on Iron Man and that this must be connected to X-Sanction. Turns out I was wrong on both accounts, though close in one instance, it was Captain America as a robot (a Deathlok?) taking on Iron Man. Oh well, it was a good issue either way. I'm curious how this constantly dying Madrox thing plays out.

Uncanny X-Men 6 - This was a decent issue actually. Last issue bored me but I like the premise here of this place in the world that's grown millions of years in only a short time and now exploring it's people and agriculture and all that. I find the Immortal Man and his kin interesting and I'm curious how it ends. Still a much inferior title compared to Wolverine & the X-Men but it's getting better thankfully. If only Greg Land would leave the book.

Uncanny X-Force 21 - It's official, this artist kills the book. He doesn't portray the story worth crap, his art is horrible, and it just completely takes all enjoyment out of Remender's writing. I love this title, I love Captain Britain, I'm intrigued by Otherworld, but this is by far the worst arc since the title began by FAR and I put it entirely on Tocchini. Thankfully there's another artist next arc and it can't come soon enough.

Wolverine & the X-Men 5 - Officially the best title on the stands. It's just so kookie that it's insanely fun. Jason Aaron was born to write this book and any other X-Book they want to give him. Kid Gladiator was fantastic here and the whole trip through Toad's body was just all kinds of fun. And while Bachalo's not been that bad on this book I really wish Bradshaw would become the ongoing penciler. I think his style is unique and lends itself to this title very well.

Green Lantern 6 - A decent issue. While I typically like Mike Choi's artwork his guest stint here left something to be desired, particularly the Hal/Carol scenes. I don't know why but they just didn't seem as good as he usually does. The plot was good and I'm curious how this leads into this whole Guardians plot that's coming. A good issue and I'm glad I didn't drop it when I was thinking about dropping it. I've lost interest in the GL mythos but the title alone is still tickling my fancy, even if it isn't as much as the pre-Blackest Night era.

Batwoman 6 - While Amy Reeder's art isn't bad it's no J.H. Williams III. That aside, the issue was pretty good. I'm making a prediction that since they were both cast aside by Batwoman. Jacob (Batwoman's father) will soon be backing Bette (Flamebird) in the way he used to support Batwoman and they'll be butting heads with Batwoman to some extent. I think that's a very good direction to go and I hope they do it. I liked how we got some backstory on the Weeping Woman's origin that we didn't know about last issue and I'm curious where it all goes. Definately one of the best of the New 52.

Batman & Robin 6 - This title started very slowly for me and I nearly dropped it but I think it's really picked up. I like the direction it's taken with Robin really challenging Bruce to the point of betraying him, though not all is as it seemed. The writing is good and I love Gleason's art. I nearly dropped the book but I think I'm in for the long haul now. Like Snyder's Batman, it gets better with each issue.


Best and Worst of the Past Two Weeks!!!

Oooohh, the competition...

Best: Wolverine & the X-Men 5/Batman & Robin 6 - I just couldn't choose between these two. The fun of W&tXM and the fatherly anguish of B&R were both so well done and so good that I just had to give it to both of them. Two excellent issues. Noteworthy mentions were Secret Avengers and Carnage U.S.A., both of which could have won on different weeks.

Worst: Defenders 3 It's really bad when I buy THIS many comics over a two week span and it's not even a competition for which is the worst. Whatever star Fraction once had with me is gone. The only thing that holds me to this title is Iron Fist and knowing that Fraction can write a really good Iron Fist. Sadly, it's not worth the $4 to continue and I won't be. I'll likely skim the title as it goes and maybe pick up some Iron Fist centric issues but that's as far as it'll go. Title sucks. I'm curious how fast sales are dropping.

 

[runawayboulder]

WATXM #5 was all types of awesome. I agree with JH that Bradshaw should be the regular artist, he nails this book. The entire class of students are great but Broo is probably my favorite right now. He looks like a monster but acts adorable like a puppy. Kid Gladiator is friggin hysterical as well. I love how Aaron had multiple stories going on at once. He does a good job with not making the reader feel like they're being pulled in 6 different directions. This is flat out just great storytelling.

Punisher MAX's ending was more or less a postmortem to the entire Punisher MAX line. The issue didn't really offer a lot with the exception of Fury burning all of the journals and evidence Frank had and Fury killing Vanessa Fisk. I still think Punisher MAX could still live on someday. Frank did keep his war journals, so Marvel could go back to the MAX line with a Punisher War Journal MAX book, a sort or untold tales book if you will, taking place back when Frank was alive. 35 years is a long period. You could do stories from different era's, 70's, 80's and so on. Last word on this book, it was stellar work from Aaron and Dillion, all built originally by Ennis. Definitely one of my favorite titles that I've followed.

 

[Dread]

After last week's 11 comic wallet-buster, this week is mercifully short in terms of dollars and awful books. Spoilers ahead!

DREAD'S BOUGHT/THOUGHT FOR 2/8/12:

BATTLE SCARS #4: While this is a perfectly acceptable and entertaining action story, a clear sign on the cover of something going off the rails with this series is present; Chris Yost is now the sole credited writer of this mini series. Matt Fraction and Cullen Bunn are credited with story credits and their names – especially the “A-List” Fraction’s – were plastered on the covers above Yost’s for prior issues. Now, it seems Marvel wants to make sure Yost is the one credited to this, for good or ill. Sales are in the dumps for this mini, which launched off the back of the FEAR ITSELF crossover event. It launched with sales of over 32k and as of last month, was selling just over 18k midway through. Sales may be downright ugly for issue six, and an editor may have decided having “high profile” names like Fraction attached to it would look bad. It is rarely a good omen when the assistant editor of a comic is fired after the first issue ships. I vaguely recall when something like this happened over at DC’s WILDSTORM imprint in 2005 with a little title called THE INTIMATES. It was a teenage superhero series created by Jim Lee, Joe Casey, and Giuseppe Camuncoli; the future co-publisher at DC Comics even contributed some pencil work to the first few issues. But about midway through when the series was going off the rails and probably selling near four digits worth of copies, Jim Lee’s name magically vanished from the cover credits, as if nobody wanted to acknowledge a “superstar” was at the helm of it. The shame of it is that BATTLE SCARS is a far better comic than THE INTIMATES was, and is skillfully drawn by Scot Eaton, inked by Andrew Hennessy, and colored by Paul Mounts. It is introducing a new character in Sgt. Marcus Johnson and telling a perfectly capable and even exciting action adventure story within the Marvel Universe from an outsider’s P.O.V.

So, why has it failed to jazz up the sales charts? While FEAR ITSELF sold well, it was Marvel’s poorest selling crossover event series since the last, SIEGE, in 2009-2010. It failed to boost sales by much of a margin for most of the ongoing titles it crossed over into. It is launched at a time when Marvel, as usual, is publishing at least eighty-five-plus other comics vying for attention. It has the task of not only introducing a new Marvel character, but a character of color who actually isn’t himself a superhero – historically tall orders even in “booming” times; ADAM: LEGEND OF THE BLUE MARVEL didn’t light the sales charts aflame in 2006, after all. Finally, the series itself is perfectly entertaining, but it isn’t the stuff of Eisner awards or cult hit threads on message boards. Finally, the entire premise of this series hinges on there being a secret revolving around Johnson’s heritage, and solicitations for future issues have all but ruined that months ago.

In this issue, Marcus Johnson is smack in the middle of his quest to unravel the reason for his mother’s murder and why SHIELD and every costumed maniac for hire wants him. In the previous issue, Johnson had a rematch with Taskmaster and even battled Deadpool, and in this issue is set upon by the Serpent Society (not to be confused with the Serpent Squad, currently appearing in CAPTAIN AMERICA). A pattern has emerged within four issues; every time Johnson encounters a new costumed threat that he has no hope against, he is usually saved by another Marvel character. This happened in issue #2 when Captain America arrived to save him from Taskmaster, and in this issue, Deadpool is on hand to fight the Serpent people for him. This gives Johnson more time to interrogate Taskmaster for more information, and for Scorpio – himself a huge clue as to that heritage – revealing himself after a few issues of stalking.

The big reveal is made at the end of this issue – Johnson is related to Nick Fury, former head of SHIELD and former off-the-grid agent of SHIELD. The elderly villain who has bankrolled the hit on Johnson seeks not only revenge on Fury, but probably wants Johnson’s blood because Johnson has likely inherited some form of the “Infinity Formula” which keeps Nick Fury relatively young. The editorial motivation for this is interesting to think about. This May, “THE AVENGERS” is going to hit theaters and in that, Nick Fury is played by Samuel L. Jackson – who doesn’t look like the mainstream Nick Fury to put it simply. Nick Fury is black in the ULTIMATE universe and also in several recent TV cartoons – such as “WOLVERINE & THE X-MEN” on NickToons and “AVENGERS: EARTH’S MIGHTIEST HEROES” on Disney XD. However, rather than alter the skin color of the “mainstream Marvel Universe” Fury – a trick which Marvel did with the Punisher in the 90’s which backfired terribly – they have decided to give Fury a son who will probably end up filling a similar role at SHIELD, while Nick himself can continue to remain off the grid.

Johnson’s fortitude remains exceptional in this series. Despite being “merely” a well trained Air Force soldier, he has endured beatings from superhuman enemies which would have crippled most people and yet continues on his mission without spending much time to sleep and only performing basic first aid on his wounds. In fairness, this is standard for lead heroes in most action films, but could this also be due to Johnson’s potential “Infinity Formula” blood? Deadpool has some amusing lines of dialogue, as usual. The artwork by Eaton is quite good, even if it may not be as memorable as, say, the typical artwork in DAREDEVIL right now.

This is a perfectly entertaining series, which seeks to satisfy some cross medium synergy for Marvel Entertainment as well as introduce a new character via an action story. The problem is over-saturation, under promotion, and the inability for any new characters to flourish in the “boom and bust” comic book market Marvel and DC have spent the last eight years creating for everyone. While this isn’t exactly a lost gem, it isn’t so bad that it is deserving of its dismissal by fans.

CAPTAIN AMERICA #8: Ed Brubaker and legendary artist Alan Davis (alongside Laura Martin's colors and Mark Farmer's inks) continue on their "POWERLESS" arc, which is a continuation of this series' serial as well as a loose sequel to STEVE ROGERS: SUPER SOLDIER from 2010. Captain America is losing his super-soldier-ness due to tinkering with his cells by Machinesmith, which seems to only arise when he doubts his faith in America. Yes, it is really that crude. Fortunately, Cap has no doubt in America in the middle of thwarting a bank robbery spree by the Serpent Squad alongside Sharon Carter. Unfortunately, when he attempts to quell what is left of the Mad-Bomb riot in Harlem, he once again shrinks into a 98 lb. weakling. It is all a ploy by the new Queen Hydra to spring her hubby Codename Bravo from prison during the chaos. The strengths of this issue remain the terrific artwork as well as a thrilling battle against some notable super-villains. I am pleased to see Brubaker abandon his over-use of battles against nameless grunts to mix in villains like Ameridriod or the Squad. The detail where Queen Hydra forms an alliance with a tycoon who owns a media empire to own the news cycle is also clever and timely. The downside is that the angle of Cap losing his powers when he doubts America is a bit crude for me, and I feel those who haven't read or don't recall that mini from two years ago will feel a bit puzzled.

SCARLET SPIDER #2: Senior editor Stephen Wacker has run a very tight ship on AMAZING SPIDER-MAN for years, making sure it ships on time multiple times a month; he has since launched not one, but three spin-offs from the core Spidey title. VENOM launched last year and is currently shipping once a week this month and has survived past a year, and racked up rave reviews. This series launched last month and was Marvel's first launch of 2012, after being promoted in POINT ONE #1 in November. While it is unknown if this series will last as long as VENOM has, it is another quality Spidey spin-off series overseen by Wacker, with Chris Yost as writer, Ryan Stegman on art, Mike Babinski on inks and Marte Garcia on colors. Much as VENOM has managed to showcase Flash Thompson as a capable lead character, this series has quickly accomplished similar things with Kaine, Spider-Man's clone and former adversary. Much like Thompson, Kaine is a broken character with a host of issues, although he has heavier comic book tropes since he is the clone creation of the Jackal.

Kaine has taken one of Spider-Man's hi-tech costumes and fled south from New York City after helping the Avengers save the city in SPIDER-ISLAND. He has been cured of his "clone cancer" and has sought to simply grab a pile of cash (from criminals) and flee to Mexico to lead a peaceful life. However, he continues to stumble into acting as a superhero due to pangs of guilt. To this end, Kaine is once again trying to flee Texas for a life on the beach, when he sees a disaster unfolding at the hospital where in the previous issue, he left the only survivor of a brutal human transportation ring. Thus, Kaine takes on his first supervillain, who appears to have been granted flame-throwing superpowers by the Aztec god Xiuhcoatl; it is good to see gods other than the Greek or Norse ones empowering folks in Marvel once in a while. Much of this issue is a sight sequence, and it is effectively paced and drawn; I am often a sucker for a good action sequence. The reader learns that organic webbing is flame resistant and comparing Kaine to Spider-Man only makes him angrier. Kaine's back and forth between acting like a superhero versus acting like a brute continues here; he's willing to battle a villain to save a teenage girl as well as an entire hospital, but is also willing to shove said teenage girl out of his way in the middle of a fight. It is also interesting to see Yost treat Houston as a different city, with different civilians and police officers, than Manhattan, which readers are over-familiar with. For instance, the local beat cop and floor doctor are eager for Kaine to remain in the area by sheer virtue of having no superheroes. Stegman's artwork is exceptional here for the battle and reaction shots, but he also sneaks in his own Easter eggs, such as a local Latin drink named after legendary Spider-Man artist John Romita - whether junior or senior is up to the reader's imagination. In the end, Kaine has decided to set up shop in Houston as their local spider-themed superhero, even if he still expects things to fall apart and sees fleeing to Mexico with a duffel bag full of dirty money as a "Plan B". Marvel could use a few more crudely pragmatic heroes. Lastly, the tagline for the next issue is one of the best I have read in some time: "NEXT: EVERYTHING INSTANTLY GOES BAD". Yost also gets extra props for realizing that Houston's real life mayor is Annise Parker - such basic research is often absent when Marvel writers handle other states or countries sometimes.

The biggest flaw of the issue is that the lead villain isn't named. While his statements to the teenage damsel (who is named Aracely) imply there is more to her than seems apparent and that he will show up again, not naming an antagonist within an issue is a narrative error. According to interviews, he is named Salamander, but it is still something which should have been made obvious - especially given the villain's habit of ranting on and on during battle. It looks like Kaine may have stumbled upon superhumans involved with the Aztec gods, which is fine - again, why should only the Greek and Norse pantheons be exclusive to Marvel? Some other hardcore Scarlet Spider fans may still be sore that this series featured a cleaned up Kaine versus a resurrected Ben Reilly, but it also isn't obvious that Kaine will decide to go by "Scarlet Spider" yet anyway. The comic had to be titled something, and the title was chosen for attention; Kaine may not choose a codename, given that he barely even wants to be a superhero.

Overall, this series isn't exactly remaking the wheel, but it is utilizing it extremely well. This is a well written, well drawn, well paced anti-hero series starring a character many may have dismissed as irredeemable by 1998. The first issue sold over 53,400 copies last month, and Marvel issued a reprint of it; that was well enough to sell in the Top 25 for January's comic sales as well as not far below the typical issue of AMAZING SPIDER-MAN that month. VENOM #1 in March 2011 sold nearly 59k copies (once all reprints were tallied) and is now down to over 28.5k copies an issue. Second issue sales drops are often not Marvel's strong suit, and if it is severe, SCARLET SPIDER could be canned by issue five or six (or seven or eight with double-shipping). Hopefully, Yost and Stegman will have as long to play with their own hero and setting as Rick Remender has had with VENOM.

SECRET AVENGERS #22: With the departure of Warren Ellis, writer Rick Remender takes over for this stealth operative themed Avengers title; he is now the fourth writer the book has had in under two years. This book has proven an editorial dilemma for Marvel; initially launched on the strength of Ed Brubaker's popularity, it has remained despite him departing after a dozen issues due to high sales. Even brief runs by Nick Spencer and Warren Ellis have kept the book well above cancellation range. Thus, Remender - who was tossed on PUNISHER a while back and has steered the VENOM relaunch to success - has been handed the reigns to this series. His technical debut was a fortnight ago with issue 22.1, and this issue teams him with new regular artist Gabriel Hardman, who was extremely entertaining on AGENTS OF ATLAS/ATLAS. Bettie Breitweiser is also on hand for colors, and she is often attached to Brubaker's Capt. America comics. The gist is that now that Steve Rogers is back as Cap and on the core Avengers team again, he's being stretched too thin to run a black ops team. To this end he has recruited Hawkeye to take over for him, and has also recruited Captain Britain to the ranks. Most of the team from prior runs - Valkyrie, Black Widow, Beast, and Ant-Man/Eric O'Grady - remain. Moon Knight is gone, but the new Venom will appear next issue, to fill the role of the token maniac. This is Remender's first major team book, and he rolls with a cast of superheroes very well; he writes Beast as a full-on wisecracker, and the bit where Capt. Britain assumes he was intended to lead is cute. Beast is a character who writers either handle as a stuffy science exposition character or a bombastic wisecrack machine, and Remender is definitely in the school of the latter. Hank Pym is also involved, although it seems to be in building their new headquarters so far. As often with these sorts of stories, the team is hurled into an adventure right away - both they and a team of Adaptoids chase after a new superhuman woman in Pakistan, and this may be connected to a new Masters Of Evil. Hardman's art is exceptional as always, and Remender gives him a host of different locations and bizarre characters to cater to his strengths. Remender proves himself a master of obscure continuity, from Brian Braddock's position as part of a multi-dimensional league to Lady Deathstrike's father. Fans who jumped back onto this book, or stayed aboard it, for Remender based on his previous work have a lot to be impressed with here.

VENOM #13.1: "The Circle of Four" story has launched from VENOM #13, and will be told via one issue per week this month; why Marvel couldn't have simply made these regular issue numbers versus "Point One" issues is unknown. After issue twelve, Flash Thompson is stuck in Las Vegas after having performed a heist for Crime-Master (via blackmail) and having gone AWOL from the military with the Venom symbiote. Having punched out Captain America in aforementioned escape, Red Hulk (a.k.a. General "Thunderbolt" Ross) has been tasked with apprehending Venom and bringing him back for court-martial. At the same time, Blackheart has launched a scheme to literally bring Hell to earth via the "city of sin", which has called the attention of Alejandra, the new Ghost Rider (and her mentor, Johnny Blaze, who was the original). X-23 also gets involved, although her reasons are tenuous and obligatory - Blackheart needed her blood for his dark rites, and decided to make additional clones on a whim. Now these four characters have stumbled into each other and have formed an alliance of convenience against Blackheart and his demonic hordes. This issue is written by Rob Williams, who was also the writer on the now canceled GHOST RIDER, drawn by Lee Garbett and colored by Rob Schwager. The previous issue was a tad awkward as it had to go through the motions of uniting all the characters; now that they are united, the real fun begins. Blackheart has pitted the four against their mystical opposites, and while the purpose is to expose their flaws and beat them down with insecurities, the execution is what sets it apart here. These "opposite characters" were devised by Rick Remender in the previous issue, but Williams goes to town with them; the idea of X-23's opposite being a homicidal cheerleader is hilarious. While William's characters (Alejandra and Blaze) get the lion's share of the focus here, he also has notable bits with all the characters; to a degree it is less effective with Flash Thompson, if only because his flaws are often laid bare in VENOM. Garbett and Schwager's artwork is quite good, and they handle all of the bizarre characters and settings with exceptional skill. Blackheart in particular benefits here, and Dr. Strange and Hellstorm also make a notable cameo here. The kickoff for this story was solid, but this second chapter was more thrilling, and hopefully bodes well for the rest of this VENOM event for February.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Venom #13.1: Man, Alejandra sucks. Nice to see Doc Strange and Daimon Hellstrom, though. Hellstrom's been showing up a lot lately. I like it. I like that he's sticking to the pentagram-chest look now, too. That getup he was in for The Last Defenders kind of sucked. Although the chariot was cool. I'm rambling now.

Secret Avengers #22: Remender's run is off to a fun start. Beast is so much more vibrant and bouncy than he was under Brubaker. I love it. The initial clash between Captain Britain and Hawkeye seems to imply a nice echo of the authoritarian/rebel conflict Hawkeye has with Captain America, which I guess is fitting and should enable Hawkeye to get some good dialogue here and there. Remender does a great job of grabbing you with the main plot right away, too. I certainly didn't see that Arab mother's sucking up that explosion coming. I'm a little wary of placing a covert ops superhero team in the Middle East, since that errs a bit too close to run-of-the-mill covert ops teams' territory, but the robot angle sci fi's it up sufficiently.

Wolverine and the X-Men #5: Another fantastic issue for this series. Seriously, this is exactly what I wanted a school-centric X-Men series to be. Beast's jaunt through Toad's innards for class was awesome, Broo is adorable, Kid Gladiator is hilarious, even Kid Omega is an interesting and worthwhile addition to the cast. This review is honestly kind of boring for me because there's nothing bad for me to harp on. Just solid gold from start to finish. Even Bradshaw's art, which I usually find a bit too cartoony, is perfect because it fits the tone of the series so well.

Carnage USA #3: Another decent issue, although I kind of wish they'd skipped the random symbiote-powered military task force and gone straight to sending in Flash. I just do not care one whit about any of these military dudes with symbiotes. The family drama was over a bit too soon as well; Wells built it up a bit too much to give it such an anticlimactic payoff. He may revisit it, though, so we'll see. Looking forward to Venom's involvement from the next issue on.

Battle Scars #4: Welp, this series has pretty much lost any interest whatsoever for me. It's showed its hand, pretty much. Marcus Johnson is really Marcus Fury and this is Marvel's attempt to finally bring Samuel L. Fury to the 616 comics. At its current publishing schedule, this series'll deliver that right in time for the Avengers movie. Honestly, the idea doesn't really bother me because at least they're making a story out of it and not just doing some weird reality-warp where suddenly the Nick Fury we've all known for decades is black. That would be tacky and in terrible, terrible taste. Marcus at least seems to be a somewhat interesting character, if a bit familiar to all of the other soldier-type characters--tough, determined, overwhelmed by the superhero stuff but willing to grit his teeth and deal with it, etc. Eh, it is what it is.

 

[Dread]

Venom #13.1: Man, Alejandra sucks. Nice to see Doc Strange and Daimon Hellstrom, though. Hellstrom's been showing up a lot lately. I like it. I like that he's sticking to the pentagram-chest look now, too. That getup he was in for The Last Defenders kind of sucked. Although the chariot was cool. I'm rambling now.

Daimon Hellstrom showed up in Jason Aaron's GHOST RIDERS: HEAVEN'S ON FIRE mini series a few years back, where he also looked drastically different. He can change his appearance at will, as most demons can. But, yes, I prefer his default look, especially when he stops using Quicksilver's hairdo.

Alejandra came off as a bit generic to me, honestly. She's a typical sassy young heroine who thinks she's all that but stumbles into mistakes. While I did like the idea of her tiring from taking orders from older men, she came off as very bland to me - I found myself more interested in X-23's segments, which is strange as I don't usually care for her. Perhaps Alejandra's mundane-ness is part of why GHOST RIDER didn't take and it was axed.

X-23 being curious about whether she has a soul or not is interesting. Although I'd wager that if Vision/Victor Shade, a robot built on a table from scraps by another robot, supposedly has a soul (CHAOS WAR: DEAD AVENGERS), then I don't see why X-23 wouldn't have one. It's probably just boring and emotionless, like she is.

I would buy a team book which featured Amadeus Cho, Spider-Girl, X-23, and the new Thunderstrike and Power-Man as in FEAR ITSELF: THE HOME FRONT.

 

[Themanofbat]

Venom #13.1: Man, Alejandra sucks. Nice to see Doc Strange and Daimon Hellstrom, though. Hellstrom's been showing up a lot lately. I like it. I like that he's sticking to the pentagram-chest look now, too. That getup he was in for The Last Defenders kind of sucked. Although the chariot was cool. I'm rambling now.

Secret Avengers #22: Remender's run is off to a fun start. Beast is so much more vibrant and bouncy than he was under Brubaker. I love it. The initial clash between Captain Britain and Hawkeye seems to imply a nice echo of the authoritarian/rebel conflict Hawkeye has with Captain America, which I guess is fitting and should enable Hawkeye to get some good dialogue here and there. Remender does a great job of grabbing you with the main plot right away, too. I certainly didn't see that Arab mother's sucking up that explosion coming. I'm a little wary of placing a covert ops superhero team in the Middle East, since that errs a bit too close to run-of-the-mill covert ops teams' territory, but the robot angle sci fi's it up sufficiently.

Wolverine and the X-Men #5: Another fantastic issue for this series. Seriously, this is exactly what I wanted a school-centric X-Men series to be. Beast's jaunt through Toad's innards for class was awesome, Broo is adorable, Kid Gladiator is hilarious, even Kid Omega is an interesting and worthwhile addition to the cast. This review is honestly kind of boring for me because there's nothing bad for me to harp on. Just solid gold from start to finish. Even Bradshaw's art, which I usually find a bit too cartoony, is perfect because it fits the tone of the series so well.

Carnage USA #3: Another decent issue, although I kind of wish they'd skipped the random symbiote-powered military task force and gone straight to sending in Flash. I just do not care one whit about any of these military dudes with symbiotes. The family drama was over a bit too soon as well; Wells built it up a bit too much to give it such an anticlimactic payoff. He may revisit it, though, so we'll see. Looking forward to Venom's involvement from the next issue on.

Battle Scars #4: Welp, this series has pretty much lost any interest whatsoever for me. It's showed its hand, pretty much. Marcus Johnson is really Marcus Fury and this is Marvel's attempt to finally bring Samuel L. Fury to the 616 comics. At its current publishing schedule, this series'll deliver that right in time for the Avengers movie. Honestly, the idea doesn't really bother me because at least they're making a story out of it and not just doing some weird reality-warp where suddenly the Nick Fury we've all known for decades is black. That would be tacky and in terrible, terrible taste. Marcus at least seems to be a somewhat interesting character, if a bit familiar to all of the other soldier-type characters--tough, determined, overwhelmed by the superhero stuff but willing to grit his teeth and deal with it, etc. Eh, it is what it is.

 

[JewishHobbit]

X-23 being curious about whether she has a soul or not is interesting.

May I laugh now? Her whole ongoing series has been the pursuit of herself and whether she has a soul and when I've mentioned this you call her mundane, boring, two dementional, and a copy and all that. You read two issues that barely touch on her quest for having a soul and suddenly it's interesting.

I just find that hilarious

Wolverine and the X-Men #5: ... Even Bradshaw's art, which I usually find a bit too cartoony, is perfect because it fits the tone of the series so well.

The first time I saw his art was in the X-Men/Namor/Super Soldier Annual crossover and I thought I'd hate it for the cartooniness but I ended up kinda liking it. Not loving it, but liking it. Then I saw it on this book last issue and LOVED it. I think it's the perfect feel for the title, so much better than Bachelo (which I felt fit Generation X perfectly when he kept it a bit darker).

Carnage USA #3: Another decent issue, although I kind of wish they'd skipped the random symbiote-powered military task force and gone straight to sending in Flash. I just do not care one whit about any of these military dudes with symbiotes. The family drama was over a bit too soon as well; Wells built it up a bit too much to give it such an anticlimactic payoff. He may revisit it, though, so we'll see. Looking forward to Venom's involvement from the next issue on.

I like the idea of the task force because it brings back 4 of the 5 Lethal Protector Symbiotes (though I guess that eliminates Hybrid) but I wish they'd just be those symbiotes instead of normal guys with symbiote attachments.

And for the family deal, yeah, I agree. I REALLy wanted Carnage to force Cap to kill one of the kids. It's supposed to be a screwed up, darker story so follow through with it. That's perfectly in Carnage's character to do it and the fall out with Cap would be very interesting. I think that alone would jetipolt Carnage's horrific character through the roof.

 

[runawayboulder]

X-23 has been a pretty good character since leaving X-Force. The best issues during her solo was easily her time with FF. Since she's joined Avengers Academy, she's practically done nothing, which is disappointing to say the least.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Yeah, that's why I dropped the book. I was real curious what Gage would do with her but he regressed her a bit and after 3 issues she was mostly background so I decided not to bother. I might pick up the Runaways issues or some AvsX tie-ins (if the book has those) but I doubt it.

And I actually liked the crossover with Daken best for her series. I like Malcolm Colcord and the sibling spat was fun I thought. And the guy who drew Daken's book was amazing Marjorie Liu is a great writer and for the first time since it's first arc I'm actually excited for an issue of Astonishing X-Men to come out. I sorta feel that Gage on X-Men Legacy has been a slight disappointment for me (it isn't bad but my expectations were higher, especially compared to W&tXM and typically Uncanny X-Force) but I think Liu's book will live up to my expectations.

 

[runawayboulder]

Matteo Buffagni drew Daken after Giuseppe Camuncoli and yeah, he is pretty good. He's very similar to Immonen.

 

[Tron Bonne]

What time is it? It's Adventure Time #1 review time! There's not a whole lot to say about this comic outside this: if you're a fan of the show, it's worth your time. There's just not much else to say about it outside of that. It even directly references one of the shows major episodes of the second season involving the return of the Lich King. The dialogue did feel a bit off to me in some places, but overall, Brown captures the feel of the show pretty well, retaining the sharp and subtle wit from the show itself. The only real compliment I can level at this is that it just breezed by so quickly. The back-up involving Tree Trunks and Cinnamon Bun was a nice little piece, but even if seems to just zoom by, making the $3.99 feel even more steep. Regardless, though, I think this will potentially be a pretty fun little offshoot of the show, and I'm looking forward to more mathematical adventures in the land of Ooo in comic form.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Matteo Buffagni drew Daken after Giuseppe Camuncoli and yeah, he is pretty good. He's very similar to Immonen.

I'm thinking it was Camuncoli that I really liked.

 

[runawayboulder]

Camuncoli is awesome but he left after the 7th or 8th issue. Buffagni is pretty talented though. Like I said, his work reminds me of Immonen and that's a good thing.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Camuncoli is fantabulous. I've loved his work ever since Captain Atom: Armageddon.

Italian artists in general seem to be the bulk of Marvel's second-string artist rotation. Viti filled in/took over after Caselli on Secret Warriors, Casagrande filled in/took over after Hardman left Hulk, this Buffagni person took over after Camuncoli (who's Italian himself) on Daken, etc.

Alejandra came off as a bit generic to me, honestly. She's a typical sassy young heroine who thinks she's all that but stumbles into mistakes. While I did like the idea of her tiring from taking orders from older men, she came off as very bland to me - I found myself more interested in X-23's segments, which is strange as I don't usually care for her. Perhaps Alejandra's mundane-ness is part of why GHOST RIDER didn't take and it was axed.

She's generic to a fault. Basically, it seems like they were just looking for any different schtick they could give her. Johnny had the classic Faustian bargain that screwed him in the end, Dan was an innocent caught up in the Ghost Rider legacy, and now Alejandra is an already bad person for whom (I'm guessing; I haven't read her series) the Spirit of Vengeance is a form of redemption. Only she's still at that stage where she's an obnoxious, terrible person. She's angry at the world and crass and mean and... well, frankly, she's pretty much Rulk under Loeb. Maybe she could be interesting when she finally turns her corner into consciously wanting redemption, but right now she's just an annoyance I'll be glad to be rid of after this crossover.

X-23 still makes absolutely no impression on me whatsoever. She's still teen girl Wolverine, as far as I'm concerned. Nothing in Avengers Academy or this or anything else I've seen her in makes me think any more or less of her than that.

You know who I miss? The teen girl Scorpion. She at least had an interesting backstory, what with her divided loyalties between her evil AIM mother and her innate will to do good. But then she started f***ing Hardball and we never saw her again.

 

[Dread]

May I laugh now? Her whole ongoing series has been the pursuit of herself and whether she has a soul and when I've mentioned this you call her mundane, boring, two dementional, and a copy and all that. You read two issues that barely touch on her quest for having a soul and suddenly it's interesting.

I just find that hilarious

With all due respect, there is a difference between:

- A character you don't care enough about to invest money in her/his own ongoing who guest stars for an arc of a book you DO invest money in for a character you DO care for and the writer happens to touch on an interesting story detail for her/him

Versus

- Investing money in a character's solo title who you don't care for and haven't read much of and which didn't seem appealing initially in all prior promotional attempts

Such as, there is a difference between you buying an issue of CAPTAIN AMAZING DUDE because I praise it so much versus Captain Amazing Dude guest starring in an issue of WOLVERINE & THE X-MEN and you going, "Hey, y'know what, that plot angle isn't terrible for this story."

I'm not suddenly in love with X-23 now. I just felt that for "THE CIRCLE OF FOUR", her plot-line - her ONLY plot line, I might add - happens to fit the supernatural nature of the plot. X-23's entire hook is being an emotionless killing machine who wonders if she's real because she's a clone. There is literally nothing else to do with her, because without that she's got no gimmick and thus nothing that makes her more distinctive than Tigra or Moondragon or Alejandra or pretty much any other violent heroine. So that plot line has to come up in pretty much everything she's in, because that's all she's got. And that goes all the way back to her TV appearances in "X-MEN EVOLUTION" in 2003. I've had 9 years to get interested in her and I haven't, and not for Marvel's lack of trying.

And in fairness, I tend to often get annoyed with the "am I a real boy" plot to characters in general. That was usually why I was often hard on Vision in AVENGERS. The answer has been obvious since "PINOCCHIO" and having to see it rehashed over and over and over and over gets nerve wracking to me. Sure, every plot is an old one, but it's a plot I don't usually enjoy seeing over and over as much. Now and again is alright. The entire premise to a franchise and it would ware on me. A robot moans about not having feelings. Well, moaning about not having feelings is a feeling, so stop angsting and do something, you bag of bolts. Something that is soulless doesn't worry about not having a soul, so obviously X-23 has a soul, time to choose another plot. It's timely for "CIRCLE OF FOUR" since Blackheart is all about supernatural character-crushing antics, but for every issue of an ongoing series, eh, no. After all, the cruelty is that X-666 does have a point - X-23 has zero nuance. She is what she is, and she's nothing more. Which is similar to Elektra - another "heroine" I never cared for. The idea of her battling a demonic killer cheerleader is hilarious, though.

In contrast, SCARLET SPIDER features Kaine seeing to redeem himself. He doesn't wonder if he's a real boy - he accepts that he is a clone, his "father" was evil and he did terrible things. Kaine's focus is figuring out what he wants to do with himself now that he's not dying and insane. X-23 isn't trying to redeem herself; she still is a killing machine. Even in this story she notes she slaughters her own kind without any qualms even when they're in the same boat she was. She also has nothing to redeem since she was essentially a victim; she didn't choose to become that way like Logan once chose Weapon X or making some nasty choices in his life. X-23 is easy on the eyes, fits the "aggressive violent nomadic heroine" cliche that half of all female characters in comics have and admittedly has an interesting origin, albeit one that ties into Wolverine's and thus is not her own. You could argue that's similar to Batman's various Robin's, but I haven't been thrilled to read their solo adventures often, either.

X-23 is better than Daken, though. And I suppose she could fit in a team book somewhere. Every team has their token emotionless doll/robot.

She's generic to a fault. Basically, it seems like they were just looking for any different schtick they could give her. Johnny had the classic Faustian bargain that screwed him in the end, Dan was an innocent caught up in the Ghost Rider legacy, and now Alejandra is an already bad person for whom (I'm guessing; I haven't read her series) the Spirit of Vengeance is a form of redemption. Only she's still at that stage where she's an obnoxious, terrible person. She's angry at the world and crass and mean and... well, frankly, she's pretty much Rulk under Loeb. Maybe she could be interesting when she finally turns her corner into consciously wanting redemption, but right now she's just an annoyance I'll be glad to be rid of after this crossover.

X-23 still makes absolutely no impression on me whatsoever. She's still teen girl Wolverine, as far as I'm concerned. Nothing in Avengers Academy or this or anything else I've seen her in makes me think any more or less of her than that.

You know who I miss? The teen girl Scorpion. She at least had an interesting backstory, what with her divided loyalties between her evil AIM mother and her innate will to do good. But then she started f***ing Hardball and we never saw her again.

I do agree with you about Alejandra. Rob Williams probably didn't have the chance to take her to that level, as her book got canned before the annual marker. That said, perhaps the dilemma of the "write for the trade" mantra is that characters don't have long to go through building arcs to become better characters.

It is strange that Hardball came back in FEAR ITSELF: YOUTH IN REVOLT and that focused on him reconciling with Komodo and Scorpion was ditched. I suppose that with Mac Gargan back as the Scorpion in ASM, having two with the same name would be confusing. Like having both Clint Barton and Kate Bishop calling themselves Hawkeye. Everyone knows Kate isn't Hawkeye, has never been treated or accepted as the heir to that legacy and never will. Call her something else already. Same as DC having two dudes named Green Arrow - how'd that work out for Conner Hawke? The original always endures, the latter always falls into limbo or is ruined. So the moral is to always come up with a unique codename for characters, because giving them the same codename as an older character is always a recipe for failure.

Scorpion's mother came up in ANT-MAN & THE WASP from 2010-2011, but she wasn't mentioned. I suppose given that, she might make an interesting addition to AVENGERS ACADEMY. "Hey, you're the guy my mother tried to seduce/date rape/kill once." Can't say I have seen much of that Scorpion, though.

I still see X-23 as a creation of Kid's WB network demand that "X-MEN EVOLUTION" could not focus on an adult character - even Wolverine - without centering it on a teenager, so X-23 was born out of that edict. I see her as a bud from Wolverine's origin story who has a decent philosophical premise - what would Logan have been like had he been BORN into Weapon X and had all humanity removed since the cradle - but beyond that I don't care for her as a character. Rather than give her a unique origin, she has to crib off Wolverine and X-23 is a serial number, not a catchy codename. It would actually demonstrate some growth if Laura chose a new codename and Marvel stuck with it, but they won't because they're merchandise hacks. Instead Laura insists on the name her evil masters gave her. And the shame of it is that there are far more interesting young characters - even heroines - who might benefit from the amount of exposure that X-23 has gotten, but because she's Wolverine's teen daughter, she's gotten it. Maybe Arana would have caught on had she popped up in 2-3 ****ing TV shows and a video game.

 

[JewishHobbit]

With all due respect, there is a difference between:

- A character you don't care enough about to invest money in her/his own ongoing who guest stars for an arc of a book you DO invest money in for a character you DO care for and the writer happens to touch on an interesting story detail for her/him

Versus

- Investing money in a character's solo title who you don't care for and haven't read much of and which didn't seem appealing initially in all prior promotional attempts

Such as, there is a difference between you buying an issue of CAPTAIN AMAZING DUDE because I praise it so much versus Captain Amazing Dude guest starring in an issue of WOLVERINE & THE X-MEN and you going, "Hey, y'know what, that plot angle isn't terrible for this story."

You're reading too much into what I said. I was just laughing that a plot that's been part of her ongoing story was boring to you but is suddenly interesting in this crossover (which I believe was originally intended to conclude her quest for the soul plot).

I'm not suddenly in love with X-23 now. I just felt that for "THE CIRCLE OF FOUR", her plot-line - her ONLY plot line, I might add - happens to fit the supernatural nature of the plot. X-23's entire hook is being an emotionless killing machine who wonders if she's real because she's a clone. There is literally nothing else to do with her, because without that she's got no gimmick and thus nothing that makes her more distinctive than Tigra or Moondragon or Alejandra or pretty much any other violent heroine. So that plot line has to come up in pretty much everything she's in, because that's all she's got. And that goes all the way back to her TV appearances in "X-MEN EVOLUTION" in 2003. I've had 9 years to get interested in her and I haven't, and not for Marvel's lack of trying.

You assume that's the only plot she's capable of. It's like saying Sue's only plot was to be kidnapped and needing rescued by the other Four, or that Jean was only meant to be the token girl. Those were their only plots, until someone came along and gave them new ones. Same with Laura. Her "only plot" was originally the daughter of Wolverine... that's it. THen her "only plot" was the Feral daughter of Wolverine who grew up on the streets as a prostitute. After that Kyle and Yost came along and created a new plot for her where she was raised in Weapon X, added the Trigger scent plot, and began her overcoming her past and introducing the idea of love. So then THAT was her "only plot". Then Liu came with her ongoing and created a new plot where she wondered if she had a soul and how to come into her own. In the process of this "only plot" she also dealt with what it means to be a part of a family, with what it means to be trusted by others, what it means to break the hearts of those you love, how to trust men, repercussions of her connections to the Cosmic Marvel Universe, how to make her own choices in life, how to care for children, etc.

This arc is just the conclusion to the multi-angled quest that Liu took her on and I honestly don't even care for the way Remender and Williams has portrayed her here or Gage over in Academy. It's still a bit bland, without personality or conviction, and a shadow of her ongoing. Still this soul thing is actually a newer plot that's been hit and miss for the past two years and is now being concluded (if it goes as originally planned).

From here someone else can choose to come along and come up with another "only plot" and she can continue to grow how she has been since 2003 or whenever she was introduced in the comics.

Point is... if her having a soul is her "only plot" then why is it only a portion of the past 2 years and not the past 8 or 9 years? It isn't. It means that various plots have progressed her as a character. You just refuse to accept that because you refuse to read it and therefor it must not be true.

It's like you've read 5 issues of her 40 or so issue career and seen an unrelated cartoon and you feel you have her down to a science and refuse to hear otherwise from the people who've actually read every appearance and know how she's grown. It's silly honestly.

It's like people who mock Aquaman as a character having only seen Super Friends and read a couple cameos in JLA.

And in fairness, I tend to often get annoyed with the "am I a real boy" plot to characters in general.

It's timely for "CIRCLE OF FOUR" since Blackheart is all about supernatural character-crushing antics, but for every issue of an ongoing series, eh, no. After all, the cruelty is that X-666 does have a point - X-23 has zero nuance. She is what she is, and she's nothing more. Which is similar to Elektra - another "heroine" I never cared for. The idea of her battling a demonic killer cheerleader is hilarious, though.

Actually it was only really tackled in the first 6 or so issues of her ongoing, then the plot went elsewhere with her thinking on it every 4 or 5 issues, nothing big. It was a plot but not the only one. There was also the family plot with Daken, the Weapon X plot with Malcom Colcord (both of those one arc actually), learning to care for abused children, learning to love and care for children, the Captain Universe arc with the Fantastic Four, her friendship with Gambit and Cecelia Reyes (somewhat), and her relationship with Hellion. Her soul was only one part of a very good ongoing title of substance. Trust me, it was a lot deeper than the first two years of Academy in my opinion and I can say that... I've read both

X-23 isn't trying to redeem herself; she still is a killing machine. Even in this story she notes she slaughters her own kind without any qualms even when they're in the same boat she was.

This is actually 100% wrong and the fact that she was willing to go kill her clones almost turned me off the Circle of Four entirely. 180 from where she was as of the last issue of her ongoing. She was actually shown defending and saving the lives of teen girls cloned by Sinister way early in her run (2nd arc I think) and showing great sadness upon their deaths. While I like him as a writer, Remender's take on that was rediculous and vastly out of character.

The arc dealing with the Enigma Force was also dealing with her making amends for her past deads regarding someone she left alive as a boy.

She also has nothing to redeem since she was essentially a victim; she didn't choose to become that way like Logan once chose Weapon X or making some nasty choices in his life.

That's debatable. She wasn't necessarilly responsible because she was brainwashed to do those things but it was still her doing it and she has to live with that. I think there's every bit good reasons to redeem herself to herself and others who may judge her. Mostly to herself though, which seems to be her main deal.

X-23 is better than Daken, though. And I suppose she could fit in a team book somewhere. Every team has their token emotionless doll/robot.

Again, ignorance speaking. She's plum full of emotion... Gage, Remender, and Williams just haven't written it for some reason. That's a problem with the writers, not the character.

And honestly, Daken's actually evolved into a very interesting character, just as interesting as Laura if not more. I think Liu did a great job with him as well, though I don't think Williams did quite as good with him. Others have disagreed with me on Williams' take though.

I still see X-23 as a creation of Kid's WB network demand that "X-MEN EVOLUTION" could not focus on an adult character - even Wolverine - without centering it on a teenager, so X-23 was born out of that edict.

This is something I struggle with. I don't see Firestar as the girl on Super Friends, or Morph as the guy from X-Men the Animated Series, or Harley Quinn from Batman: The Animated Series. They all evolved beyond those because they are not in any way connected to those other than an otherworldly first appearance. Laura's exactly the same. Heck, even Spike from X-Men Evolution was far different once he made his comicbook debut.

It would actually demonstrate some growth if Laura chose a new codename and Marvel stuck with it, but they won't because they're merchandise hacks.

This I agree with actually.

And the shame of it is that there are far more interesting young characters - even heroines - who might benefit from the amount of exposure that X-23 has gotten, but because she's Wolverine's teen daughter, she's gotten it. Maybe Arana would have caught on had she popped up in 2-3 ****ing TV shows and a video game.

They're only more interesting because you've read them. Personally I don't find Arana to be interesting in the slightest... then again, like you and Laura, I've only read a handfull of appearances with her. And didn't Laura only show up in Evolution? And she did get several ongoings (or star in several anyway) as well as a team book and guest stars. She just wasn't interesting enough apparently.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

X-23 does muse on the possibility of those other clones' having souls, at least. Although she does it so perfunctorily and shrugs it off so quickly that it comes off like the writer's afterthought rather than the moral quandary it really ought to be. That kind of fed into my continued lack of interest in X-23.

 

[Sockie]

Lady Deathstrike's father.

That's not Deathstrike's father. The villain is known only as "Father," and he has a habit of calling everyone "son" or "daughter." Another reality's version of him was the villain in the Deathlok arc of Uncanny X-Force.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

If I were that guy, I would walk around saying "I'm your daddy" constantly.

 

[Dread]

You're reading too much into what I said. I was just laughing that a plot that's been part of her ongoing story was boring to you but is suddenly interesting in this crossover (which I believe was originally intended to conclude her quest for the soul plot).

I merely thought that X-23's standard plot happened to work fine in this particular story, where she is guest starring. I imagine other plots it will be tedious and thus it won't be included, and she'll just be the quiet girl who stabs things.

You assume that's the only plot she's capable of. It's like saying Sue's only plot was to be kidnapped and needing rescued by the other Four, or that Jean was only meant to be the token girl. Those were their only plots, until someone came along and gave them new ones. Same with Laura. Her "only plot" was originally the daughter of Wolverine... that's it. THen her "only plot" was the Feral daughter of Wolverine who grew up on the streets as a prostitute. After that Kyle and Yost came along and created a new plot for her where she was raised in Weapon X, added the Trigger scent plot, and began her overcoming her past and introducing the idea of love. So then THAT was her "only plot". Then Liu came with her ongoing and created a new plot where she wondered if she had a soul and how to come into her own. In the process of this "only plot" she also dealt with what it means to be a part of a family, with what it means to be trusted by others, what it means to break the hearts of those you love, how to trust men, repercussions of her connections to the Cosmic Marvel Universe, how to make her own choices in life, how to care for children, etc.

This arc is just the conclusion to the multi-angled quest that Liu took her on and I honestly don't even care for the way Remender and Williams has portrayed her here or Gage over in Academy. It's still a bit bland, without personality or conviction, and a shadow of her ongoing. Still this soul thing is actually a newer plot that's been hit and miss for the past two years and is now being concluded (if it goes as originally planned).

From here someone else can choose to come along and come up with another "only plot" and she can continue to grow how she has been since 2003 or whenever she was introduced in the comics.

Point is... if her having a soul is her "only plot" then why is it only a portion of the past 2 years and not the past 8 or 9 years? It isn't. It means that various plots have progressed her as a character. You just refuse to accept that because you refuse to read it and therefor it must not be true.

It's like you've read 5 issues of her 40 or so issue career and seen an unrelated cartoon and you feel you have her down to a science and refuse to hear otherwise from the people who've actually read every appearance and know how she's grown. It's silly honestly.

It's like people who mock Aquaman as a character having only seen Super Friends and read a couple cameos in JLA.

The cartoon was her original medium; dismissing her portrayal there is a bit suspect especially when the dudes who wrote here there would continue to write her in comics. Which, admittedly, is a pretty cool opportunity for them. X-23 was always intended to be Wolverine's cloned daughter who was so damaged by Weapon X/The Facility that she had virtually no personality left because it was all removed from her so she could be a weapon who could be pointed and fired at people. Marvel chose an awkward place to introduce her - NYX - but they tend to do that. Firestar in "SPIDER-MAN AND HIS AMAZING FRIENDS" started out as a member of the X-Men who graduated and went off on her own; so Marvel decided to make her a Hellion and then have her join the New Warriors. Makes a whole lot of sense, eh?

I don't see X-23 as a progressed character, unless by progressed one means she is basically a younger version of Elektra. Elektra is basically an emotionless killing machine who occasionally has angst ridden narration boxes about how she "knows what it means to die". When she doesn't have that she rarely has much of a character at all. X-23 is usually similar to me; her major character arc is whether she is real or has any personality or soul or whatnot. The reason is that if Marvel truly got her past that, they would have to change her name - as she would choose a new one for herself - and then she would have to have a new motivation and operation set-up. And because X-23 as she is - name and image - is a registered trademark, that means she CAN'T ever change, CAN'T become more than she is or was. Which is a dilemma because who she is is someone who I happen to find very boring. I do find it amusing that the same superheroes who wanted to beat down and arrest the Young Avengers for being a potential threat have allowed X-23 to run rampant and slaughter people.

The only thing I noticed about X-23's ongoing series is that it relied VERY HEAVILY on guest stars. Gambit, Jubilee, the Future Foundation, etc. And when a series relies exclusively on it's guest stars versus it's central character, that is usually a sign the central lead is a bit stiff. It reminds me of the last few issues of VENGEANCE OF THE MOON KNIGHT which were basically Moon Knight Team Up stories. Which isn't terrible in theory, but not usually ground breaking. The golden rule of team up stories is they never accomplish anything important.

Actually it was only really tackled in the first 6 or so issues of her ongoing, then the plot went elsewhere with her thinking on it every 4 or 5 issues, nothing big. It was a plot but not the only one. There was also the family plot with Daken, the Weapon X plot with Malcom Colcord (both of those one arc actually), learning to care for abused children, learning to love and care for children, the Captain Universe arc with the Fantastic Four, her friendship with Gambit and Cecelia Reyes (somewhat), and her relationship with Hellion. Her soul was only one part of a very good ongoing title of substance. Trust me, it was a lot deeper than the first two years of Academy in my opinion and I can say that... I've read both

"Deep" and "X-23" are not things I usually consider in the same thing. In fact I often consider characters like her shorthand for "deepness". Characters who piss and moan and being "real" or having an identity have long been the easy road to "depth". Of course a character who was tormented from the cradle would be angsty and damaged - that's not deep, that's a no-brainer.

It is nice somebody did something with the utterly ridiculous CAPTAIN UNIVERSE one-shots from a few years ago that had the Enigma Force bounce around a few characters, including X-23 (as well as Hulk, Invisible Woman, and Daredevil).

If there is one thing I liked about her showing up in AVENGERS ACADEMY, it was giving Hazmat and Mettle a little more drama in their relationship. It was assumed that because Mettle could survive Hazmat's powers, they would be kismet forever. X-23 at least now has Hazmat perhaps realizing that just being able to survive her may not keep him interested forever, so she has to treat him right or whatever. Of course, all X-23 really has offered Mettle thus far is a lecture on why killing bad people isn't something to fret about. But it is cute that X-23 is suddenly in the middle of a love triangle despite not intending to be. That the stand-off ish Hazmat has a jealous side. I would have thought X-23 and Finesse would have gotten more scenes together as two emotionless action chicks who don't understand emotions.

Of course, over time Finesse has gotten more tolerable for me, usually because she clearly does have emotions, she just doesn't see them happening. She clearly does seem to like Reptil, and she does care for Quicksilver as a father figure (enough to get angry when Magneto was belittling him). She isn't morally ambiguous like the teen tycoon Veil sided with, who saw helping cause someone's death as the cost of business. She isn't my favorite of that cast, however.

This is actually 100% wrong and the fact that she was willing to go kill her clones almost turned me off the Circle of Four entirely. 180 from where she was as of the last issue of her ongoing. She was actually shown defending and saving the lives of teen girls cloned by Sinister way early in her run (2nd arc I think) and showing great sadness upon their deaths. While I like him as a writer, Remender's take on that was rediculous and vastly out of character.

The arc dealing with the Enigma Force was also dealing with her making amends for her past deads regarding someone she left alive as a boy.

As I said earlier, this is why this is "her only subplot". If she resolves it, she stops being X-23 and would have to be someone else - would Marvel sell a series called LAURA KINNEY or whatever other codename she could come up for herself (like "Stabclaw" or whatever)? No. X-23 is how people know her, so she has to stick to this "one plot" forever.

Still, how often did Vision, or ANY superhero like Capt. America who knew robot heroes ever hesitate to immediately destroy an "evil" robot sicced against them? It's just one of those things that come up. Where does one draw the line between a robot that can be saved versus a drone which is immediately blown to bits by an explosive arrow? To play Devil's Advocate, X-23 did acknowledge the clones in the casino were like her, but since they had been made by symbiotes into mindless killing machines, she had little choice but to kill them. Sort of like when Megaman blows up one of Dr. Wily's robot masters.

That's debatable. She wasn't necessarilly responsible because she was brainwashed to do those things but it was still her doing it and she has to live with that. I think there's every bit good reasons to redeem herself to herself and others who may judge her. Mostly to herself though, which seems to be her main deal.

Especially since no other character or superhero holds her responsible for any of the murders she did before. Of course, Wolverine gets a pass for that now; he's killed more people over his lifetime than WWII, but he's now one of the daylight Avengers. But, yes, X-23 had no choice over being a weapon; thus she can angst about it.

Again, ignorance speaking. She's plum full of emotion... Gage, Remender, and Williams just haven't written it for some reason. That's a problem with the writers, not the character.

And honestly, Daken's actually evolved into a very interesting character, just as interesting as Laura if not more. I think Liu did a great job with him as well, though I don't think Williams did quite as good with him. Others have disagreed with me on Williams' take though.

I was being simplistic; X-23 does have a lot of emotion. She gets mad when she stabs things.

If three writers in a row have ignored "development", then that's more an editorial problem. I mean, does any writer "ignore" something Bendis does to - er, "with" - a character in NEW AVENGERS?

This is something I struggle with. I don't see Firestar as the girl on Super Friends, or Morph as the guy from X-Men the Animated Series, or Harley Quinn from Batman: The Animated Series. They all evolved beyond those because they are not in any way connected to those other than an otherworldly first appearance. Laura's exactly the same. Heck, even Spike from X-Men Evolution was far different once he made his comicbook debut.

The New 52 ruined Harley Quinn.

Firestar and Morph bore little resemblance to their cartoon counterparts in terms of origins when they were transferred over. Morph was mostly used in EXILES, though, which is all about reality hopping. Firestar hasn't usually been a major character, and isn't one now.

You forgot Reptil, who also was from a cartoon/toy series first.

They're only more interesting because you've read them. Personally I don't find Arana to be interesting in the slightest... then again, like you and Laura, I've only read a handfull of appearances with her. And didn't Laura only show up in Evolution? And she did get several ongoings (or star in several anyway) as well as a team book and guest stars. She just wasn't interesting enough apparently.

I got interest in Arana over time; I didn't care for her origins, and her series' obsession with it in every story sunk it. But remove her from it, and she's usually been more fun. Arana at least wasn't an angry loner like a lot of heroines are - even when her father was killed (a misstep, IMO), she still centered herself around others. Arana at least had a spunky sense of humor; I think I can honestly say I have NEVER seen X-23 smile in any panel or artwork ever. I don't think making her Spider-Girl in Julia Carpenter's hand-me-downs was a good idea either, but, Marvel does that.

X-23 showed up in "X-MEN EVOLUTION", "WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN" and was alluded to in "HULK VS. WOLVERINE". She has also appeared in MARVEL VS. CAPCOM 3. In comparison, the New Warriors appeared in only one cartoon; blink and miss cameo shots in the second season of "FANTASTIC FOUR" in the 90's.

My point is that few new characters from Marvel have benefited from as much exposure as X-23 has gotten; Reptil is the best closest example. I mean, will the cast from AVENGERS ACADEMY ever show up in another medium? Or even the Young Avengers? Or ****ing Night Thrasher? And it would be fine if X-23 was more than a very basic hack and slash vagabond heroine, but she isn't. Either by design or editorial fiat, she isn't. And I usually find that very boring in a lead heroine. But that can still be acceptable in an occasional guest starring stint, such as in VENOM right now.

That's not Deathstrike's father. The villain is known only as "Father," and he has a habit of calling everyone "son" or "daughter." Another reality's version of him was the villain in the Deathlok arc of Uncanny X-Force.

Oh, and here I thought that was Lord Dark Wind. Thanks.

This is one thing which is irksome about some writers when they re-use characters over several comic book runs. They never explain **** to newcomers and they assume everyone reads their past work. Nothing turns me off a comic sooner than having to Wikipedia some crap I don't know.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Honestly, I was kinda confused by that as well. Father died in Uncanny X-Force and I assumed then that it was the actual Father (first shown in Morrison's New X-Men). Well now I know and it makes a lot more sense.

And just thought I'd apologize to Dread about that reply about X-23 last night. The vertigo I've been going through this week's put me on edge and I think my reply came accross a lot more argumentive or condescending as it was intended. So sorry about that.

And I do agree that it isn't necessarilly Gage, Williams, or Remender's fault that she's not being written fully in character post-ongoing but actually the editors. I think that's where most of my frustration comes from. She has such a good ongoing written so well by Majorie Liu and then it's mostly ignored by these other writers and people who didn't read the ongoing (you for example) assume she's not progressed, which she has, greatly. It's just frustrating as a fan.

My biggest pet peeve in comics is character regression.

 

[WolfCypher]

Venom 13.1
Did not care for. I really haven't been enjoying this book since issue 8 (Spider-Island). Nine had that F-lister bank-robbing tank driving baddie, and was just another of Flash "losing control, Bulking up" filler. I was greatly looking forward to seeing where "season 2" would go, what with Flash's bosses being shut down and Venom going AWOL. But so far? These recent issues (the roadtrip and the now this Co4 story) have not been impressing me as much as Venom's fight with Kraven, his 1st encounter with Jack, or his tango with Spider-Man while Betty was minutes away from being blown away, and definitely not as good as his essential Spider-Island tie-in. Matters are made worse when he has to now share the spotlight with X-23, Rulk, and Girl Rider, 2 out of those three I couldn't care less for, and X-23 I can go either way on. I was told that this little arc was supposed to take place in Venom, GR, Rulk, and X-23's comics, and I can see that may have been the intention since 13.1 seemed to favor GR a little more than any of the other characters...like I said before, I'm glad a bulk of this arc is coming out all in Feb, so we can get out of this story quickly and move onto the next (Secret Avengers) story in store for Flash. Not feeling Remender's Venom anymore, at least right now.

Carnage USA 3
Damn shame Carnage wins me over, over Venom...anyway, I loved issue 1, liked 2, liked a bit more issue 3, so there's consistency. I know the story takes place at night, but I really wish there was more color/lighting here, since Crain's art never looks good without it, compared to how much I liked his visuals in the previous (brighter) issues. This story is doing what it promised, and keeping me anxious for the next installment, as all mini's and ongoing should. I'm not even skeptical anymore over the over-saturation of all these (goddamn) symbiotes popping in. Besides, I'm pretty sure they're all be killed of once "Eddie, the Symbiote Hunter" pops up in Venom.

Incredible Hulk 5
I have honestly been enjoying this title. I'm glad they explained how Hulk and Bruce are now separate without any negative side-effects instead of dragging that mystery on like this was DCnU's Batgirl. I'm not feeling the art. Partacio did a good enough job with issue 4, but it looks worse here.

Scarlet Spider 2
My fave of the Marvel side this week. God, I love this take on Kaine. Out of costume, I like him, and in costume, he's just Spidey 2099, who I like. [blackout]I was already sold on this issue before we got to this point, but when I got to the page where he grabbed a officer's gun and shot at that fire-steroid-guy...yes, this is a keeper.[/blackout]. So Marvel has two A-list Spider-Man spinoffs (tho, for me, Venom is bordering on "meh" ATM).

 

[Sockie]

This is one thing which is irksome about some writers when they re-use characters over several comic book runs. They never explain **** to newcomers and they assume everyone reads their past work. Nothing turns me off a comic sooner than having to Wikipedia some crap I don't know.

To be fair, Remender's probably going to explain him in the coming issues. I don't think there was a whole lot of room to talk about Father in those last pages.

 

[Dread]

Honestly, I was kinda confused by that as well. Father died in Uncanny X-Force and I assumed then that it was the actual Father (first shown in Morrison's New X-Men). Well now I know and it makes a lot more sense.

And just thought I'd apologize to Dread about that reply about X-23 last night. The vertigo I've been going through this week's put me on edge and I think my reply came accross a lot more argumentive or condescending as it was intended. So sorry about that.

And I do agree that it isn't necessarilly Gage, Williams, or Remender's fault that she's not being written fully in character post-ongoing but actually the editors. I think that's where most of my frustration comes from. She has such a good ongoing written so well by Majorie Liu and then it's mostly ignored by these other writers and people who didn't read the ongoing (you for example) assume she's not progressed, which she has, greatly. It's just frustrating as a fan.

My biggest pet peeve in comics is character regression.

I wasn't offended or put off by your reply, but apology accepted. I usually just assume X-23 is one of those things we'll usually always disagree about.

Character regression is a pet peeve for most fans, I would assume. The dilemma comes when comic book characters are also trademarked products who must sell other merchandise and thus must remain in a certain box forever, or what seems like forever. To a degree that is why I cut Kirkman some slack for some of his wild ideas and twists in INVINCIBLE. Love him or hate him, he's refusing to play that book safe - even if he's just mixing things up to mix things up. Is that better or worse than a character regressing after X amount of development over X number of years.

The statement is always "the illusion of change", and to a degree, some big characters have changed a bit. Spider-Man has a new job and all that, Iron Man has switched some things up, Hulk and Banner are split, etc. The dilemma with X-23, though, is that if she does move on, she'd change her name and her standard operational procedure, and I honestly do not believe Marvel wants to do that. So she's more or less stuck in a particular script, and whether she's progressed further or not in one book's run may be irrelevant to editorial.

Venom 13.1
Did not care for. I really haven't been enjoying this book since issue 8 (Spider-Island). Nine had that F-lister bank-robbing tank driving baddie, and was just another of Flash "losing control, Bulking up" filler. I was greatly looking forward to seeing where "season 2" would go, what with Flash's bosses being shut down and Venom going AWOL. But so far? These recent issues (the roadtrip and the now this Co4 story) have not been impressing me as much as Venom's fight with Kraven, his 1st encounter with Jack, or his tango with Spider-Man while Betty was minutes away from being blown away, and definitely not as good as his essential Spider-Island tie-in. Matters are made worse when he has to now share the spotlight with X-23, Rulk, and Girl Rider, 2 out of those three I couldn't care less for, and X-23 I can go either way on. I was told that this little arc was supposed to take place in Venom, GR, Rulk, and X-23's comics, and I can see that may have been the intention since 13.1 seemed to favor GR a little more than any of the other characters...like I said before, I'm glad a bulk of this arc is coming out all in Feb, so we can get out of this story quickly and move onto the next (Secret Avengers) story in store for Flash. Not feeling Remender's Venom anymore, at least right now.

Scarlet Spider 2
My fave of the Marvel side this week. God, I love this take on Kaine. Out of costume, I like him, and in costume, he's just Spidey 2099, who I like. [blackout]I was already sold on this issue before we got to this point, but when I got to the page where he grabbed a officer's gun and shot at that fire-steroid-guy...yes, this is a keeper.[/blackout]. So Marvel has two A-list Spider-Man spinoffs (tho, for me, Venom is bordering on "meh" ATM).

I can understand some of your frustration about VENOM, although I did enjoy the "road trip". The "CIRCLE OF FOUR" was conceived as an editorial strategy to use VENOM to bring attention to X-23, GHOST RIDER, and (Red) HULK; by the time it started, the former two of those books are canned and VENOM's title itself is hardly in the Top 50 anymore. Thus, it can seem more like a stunt and a diversion than a VENOM story, especially as you get issues that focus heavily on other characters within his own title. For me, it's been decent, and while Marvel will get a lot of cash out of me for it, it'll be over next month.

As for SCARLET SPIDER, that was a cool scene. Kaine is an opportunistic fighter, to say the least.

To be fair, Remender's probably going to explain him in the coming issues. I don't think there was a whole lot of room to talk about Father in those last pages.

True, hopefully he does. Because I merely assumed it was Lady Deathstrike's dad, who was Lord Dark Wind, who was left for dead in DAREDEVIL ages ago.