Cameron Introduces JESUS. No, really...

[chaseter]

The US is also losing a ton of money because our dumbass leader is spending it like a drunken sailor. If we keep it up we won't be the #1 country. If we keep on pissing everyone off then we're screwed. It's your arrogance that is keeping this country from being the best.

And it's self righteous people like you that sit and home and do nothing about it. I also didn't know that my single exersion of arrogance over another's is causing the decline of this country. When I get pushed, I push back. When you get pushed, you lie over and get ran over and then reflect on how you could have gotten out of the way faster. Bush isn't a good leader and this country isn't in the place it should be right now. But b****ing about it on the internet isn't going to change that fact. I bet you didn't even vote the last go around.

 

[Super Kal]

cone on guys, let's not fight about this.... let's try and keep this as civil as possible.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

I am afraid to respond because of Tangled Web and his moral ways.

don't catch feelings yo.

 

[Kritish]

cone on guys, let's not fight about this.... let's try and keep this as civil as possible.

You still think the shroud of Turin is real, you have no credibility with us what so ever. It was carbon dated to be somewhere in the 1300’s for your information.

 

[chaseter]

^Yea, I believe they found the shroud of Turin to be a dead knight's veil or something or another. Some people also think they have the Holy Grail and somewhere in Asia I believe a monestary claims to have the Arc. More than likely fakes as well. If you don't show it to the world to prove God exists, then it's probably a fake.

 

[The Chairman]

Who decides that exactly. Because up until about 300 to 400 years after Christ died it was decided the Bible was an allegory, then someone said it wasn't and created a hierarchy, then Martin Luther came along with all his ideas...so exactly which person decides for the group how to worship.

If you're argument holds any water (which it doesn't) you should be able to point to a person today who worships "properly". Because there are a lot of Christians, just like the people in Jesus Camp (both camps) who claim to worship "properly". So who decides that, because if they decide for themselves how they want to worship or what they want to believe then it's not much of a cult. at all.

Exactly. Bravo, ShadowBoxing, your argument has made quite a few excellent points.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Who decides that exactly. Because up until about 300 to 400 years after Christ died it was decided the Bible was an allegory, then someone said it wasn't and created a hierarchy, then Martin Luther came along with all his ideas...so exactly which person decides for the group how to worship.

If you're argument holds any water (which it doesn't) you should be able to point to a person today who worships "properly". Because there are a lot of Christians, just like the people in Jesus Camp (both camps) who claim to worship "properly". So who decides that, because if they decide for themselves how they want to worship or what they want to believe then it's not much of a cult. at all.

LOL.
the Bible, don't be silly.

and your own argument must be surprisingly weak if you can't grasp that a cult is infact [SIZE=-1]a religious group that follows a particular theological system
and also the word cult as a noun is the act of [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]formal religious veneration
THAT is my argument.
since Christianity has particular [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]theological system, and though sermons, services and prayer engages is religious veneration is therefore a cult.
I have no idea what you're argument is, I guess that the more people stray from a given religion's theological Ideas the less of a cult it is.
I guess since there's so many Branches of satanism it's no longer a cult.
go figure, I'd thought otherwise.
[/SIZE]

 

[Kritish]

^Yea, I believe they found the shroud of Turin to be a dead knight's veil or something or another. Some people also think they have the Holy Grail and somewhere in Asia I believe a monestary claims to have the Arc. More than likely fakes as well. If you don't show it to the world to prove God exists, then it's probably a fake.

Not to mention that the face seems to bear a strong resembalance to Leonardo Da Vinci.

 

[chaseter]

Exactly. Bravo, ShadowBoxing, your argument has made quite a few excellent points.

Shadow does do his research very well and can articulate an argument quiet well. I on the other hand get angry and it gets the best of me. But I do agree with a lot of what he says.

 

[The Chairman]

Shadow does do his research very well and can articulate an argument quiet well. I on the other hand get angry and it gets the best of me. But I do agree with a lot of what he says.

The fact that he also said earlier in this thread he leans towards atheism and can still be more subjective in his arguments involving theistic beliefs is quite impressive. Again, kudos.

 

[Tangled Web]

I am afraid to respond because of Tangled Web and his moral ways.

Well, you're the one embarassing Christians here.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

oh ,and to underscore just HOW uninformed Shadowboxing is about this, as early as 1978 there was a belief held that Bible was perfect and sacred as the word of god.

that's 1978.

one nine seven eight for those of you keeping score at home.
and since the definitie Latin edtion of the bible was finished 400 years after Christ , shadow's claims that most thought it allegory by then are complete and utter bunk.

 

[The Chairman]

Well, you're the one embarassing Christians here.

I'm not embarassed by him.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Shadow does do his research very well and can articulate an argument quiet well. I on the other hand get angry and it gets the best of me. But I do agree with a lot of what he says.

By the way you were right to point this out as I looked up the definition of a cult.

In Sociology: In religion and sociology, a cult is a group of people (often a new religious movement) devoted to beliefs and goals which may be contradictory to those held by the majority of society. Its marginal status may come about either due to its novel belief system or due to idiosyncratic practices that cause the surrounding culture to regard it as far outside the mainstream.

 

[chaseter]

Well, you're the one embarassing Christians here.

I didn't know it was wrong to defend my religion. Do you act this way when people make fun of you and your way of life? Just drop it...

 

[The Chairman]

I didn't know it was wrong to defend my religion. Do you act this way when people make fun of you and your way of life? Just drop it...

I'm pretty sure TW's also a a Christian.

 

[chaseter]

By the way you were right to point this out as I looked up the definition of a cult.

In Sociology: In religion and sociology, a cult is a group of people (often a new religious movement) devoted to beliefs and goals which may be contradictory to those held by the majority of society. Its marginal status may come about either due to its novel belief system or due to idiosyncratic practices that cause the surrounding culture to regard it as far outside the mainstream.

Which is what my original argument was. That in America, Christianity is NOT a cult. Yet it kept getting skewed out of context.

 

[Kritish]

I didn't know it was wrong to defend my religion. Do you act this way when people make fun of you and your way of life? Just drop it...

You can't debate though, you have a hard core case of true believer syndrome. It wouldn't matter if there was an all out piece of scientific proof, you still wouldn't give it the time of day.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

By the way you were right to point this out as I looked up the definition of a cult.

In Sociology: In religion and sociology, a cult is a group of people (often a new religious movement) devoted to beliefs and goals which may be contradictory to those held by the majority of society. Its marginal status may come about either due to its novel belief system or due to idiosyncratic practices that cause the surrounding culture to regard it as far outside the mainstream.

byt the way both of you sidestep the definition of cult that didn't suit your argument.

[SIZE=-1]adherents of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices
fad: an interest followed with exaggerated zeal; "he always follows the latest fads"; "it was all the rage that season"
a system of religious beliefs and rituals; "devoted to the cultus of the Blessed Virgin"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]In religion and sociology, a cult is a group of people (often a new religious movement) devoted to beliefs and goals which may be contradictory to those held by the majority of society. Its marginal status may come about either due to its novel belief system or due to idiosyncratic practices that cause the surrounding culture to regard it as far outside the mainstream.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]In traditional usage, the cult of a religion, quite apart from its sacred writings ("scriptures"), its theology or myths, or the personal faith of its believers, is the totality of external religious practice and observance, the neglect of which is the definition of impiety. Cult is literally the "care" owed to the god and the shrine. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_(religion)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]A religious group that follows a particular theological system. In the context of Christianity, and in particular, CARM, it is a group that uses the Bible but distorts the doctrines that affect salvation sufficiently to cause salvation to be unattainable. A few examples of cults are Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, Christadelphians, Unity, Religious Science, The Way International, and the Moonies. (See also Cults)
www.carm.org/dictionary/dic_c-d.htm[/SIZE][SIZE=-1](cult) (kult) a system of treating disease based on some special and unscientific theory of disease causation.
www.merckmedicus.com/pp/us/hcp/thcp_dorlands_content.jsp[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Veneration ( or honoring ) of a saint expressed in public acts, local or universal, and formally approved by the Pope.
www.ichrusa.com/saintsalive/glossary.htm[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]A religious group which denies the essential doctrines of Christianity. The term is usually reserved for groups founded after 1750.
www.dtl.org/trinity/misc/glossary.htm[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]A following of people.
www.britishcouncil.org/ukinfocus-music-glossary.htm[/SIZE][SIZE=-1](noun) often attributive [French & Latin; French culte, from Latin cultus care, adoration, from colere to cultivate -- more at WHEEL]; First appeared 1617 1 : formal religious veneration : WORSHIP 2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents 3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents 4 : a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health ~s> 5 a : great devotion to a person, idea, object ...
www.contecult.com/glossary.htm[/SIZE]

 

[chaseter]

You can't debate though, you have a hard core case of true believer syndrome. It wouldn't matter if there was an all out piece of scientific proof, you still wouldn't give it the time of day.

Which is true, but that's not the case. And if it was proved that God does exist...would you react the same way I would? Plus, we aren't debating on whether or not Christianity is scientifically true or false...so it doesn't matter. Plus, my oponent has a hardcore case of true nonbeliever syndrome. Does that throw him out of the argument as well? Now granted I am not a shut in, the world is the Devil, Pat Robertson speaks the truth damn 'em all Christian...we have enough of those already.

 

[chaseter]

byt the way both of you sidestep the definition of cult that didn't suit your argument.

[SIZE=-1]adherents of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]fad: an interest followed with exaggerated zeal; "he always follows the latest fads"; "it was all the rage that season" [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]a system of religious beliefs and rituals; "devoted to the cultus of the Blessed Virgin" [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]In religion and sociology, a cult is a group of people (often a new religious movement) devoted to beliefs and goals which may be contradictory to those held by the majority of society. Its marginal status may come about either due to its novel belief system or due to idiosyncratic practices that cause the surrounding culture to regard it as far outside the mainstream. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]In traditional usage, the cult of a religion, quite apart from its sacred writings ("scriptures"), its theology or myths, or the personal faith of its believers, is the totality of external religious practice and observance, the neglect of which is the definition of impiety. Cult is literally the "care" owed to the god and the shrine. ...[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_(religion)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]A religious group that follows a particular theological system. In the context of Christianity, and in particular, CARM, it is a group that uses the Bible but distorts the doctrines that affect salvation sufficiently to cause salvation to be unattainable. A few examples of cults are Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, Christadelphians, Unity, Religious Science, The Way International, and the Moonies. (See also Cults)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]www.carm.org/dictionary/dic_c-d.htm[/SIZE][SIZE=-1](cult) (kult) a system of treating disease based on some special and unscientific theory of disease causation.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]www.merckmedicus.com/pp/us/hcp/thcp_dorlands_content.jsp[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Veneration ( or honoring ) of a saint expressed in public acts, local or universal, and formally approved by the Pope.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]www.ichrusa.com/saintsalive/glossary.htm[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]A religious group which denies the essential doctrines of Christianity. The term is usually reserved for groups founded after 1750.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]www.dtl.org/trinity/misc/glossary.htm[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]A following of people.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]www.britishcouncil.org/ukinfocus-music-glossary.htm[/SIZE][SIZE=-1](noun) often attributive [French & Latin; French culte, from Latin cultus care, adoration, from colere to cultivate -- more at WHEEL]; First appeared 1617 1 : formal religious veneration : WORSHIP 2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents 3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents 4 : a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health ~s> 5 a : great devotion to a person, idea, object ...[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][URL="http://www.contecult.com/glossary.htm"]www.contecult.com/glossary.htm[/SIZE][/URL]

And you only bold the parts that suit yours...HAHAHA LMFAO.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

And you only bold the parts that suit yours...HAHAHA LMFAO.

um, yeah, I guess the fact that you have ONE definition on the side of your argument and I have like four would seem funny.

to me.

I don't know what you're laughing about though.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

oh ,and to underscore just HOW uninformed Shadowboxing is about this, as early as 1978 there was a belief held that Bible was perfect and sacred as the word of god.

that's 1978.

Pat Robertson and an old roomate of mine still believe the Bible is 100% literally accurate...so you really blew the roof off with that revelation . You know there are also nerd who believe Star Wars really happened and people who think the aliens are out to get them.

one nine seven eight for those of you keeping score at home.
and since the definitie Latin edtion of the bible was finished 400 years after Christ , shadow's claims that most thought it allegory by then are complete and utter bunk.

Right, around the time church fathers were meeting to decide on what stayed in and out of the Bible and set down Church Doctrine. But until that time it was believed an allegory. I can prove this being that no Jewish faith, who by the way wrote the first half, believes in a 100% true Bible. In fact

For example: Saint Augustine, (4th century), claimed that the entire Bible should be interpreted in an as literal as possible way, but his own interpretation of the book of Genesis was made in such a way that would be considered "allegorical" by many modern readers[9] (see Augustine's interpretation of Genesis).

4th century would place it where. About 300 years, so 100 before you said it was redacted. Well then I'd say if such a high profile theologian like Augustine went without being hung and wrote books where he obviously did not take the as 100% literal.

Neither does the Talmud, which is Jewish textual criticism of the old testament. That book in fact plays on the contradictions of both the laws and events to create a never ending dialogue between Jewish scholars. The point of course is to illustrate the importance of theological discussion.

And of course lastly just read the damn book. Unless you believe the writers were purposefully stupid enough to include contradictory stories of Jesus, Genesis, Solomon, Saul, David and even contradictory laws I'd say you're point is far weaker than I thought.

Yes the writers of the Bible, those who canonized it couldn't be bothered to notice how the orders of both Genesis' are backwards or how some passages claim God cannot be seen while other mention figures seeing God. That seems at least to me that the people writing it were a lot more concerned with the stories content and meaning that it's literal accuracy or else they would've been sure to iron out all the contradictions and different dates, times, events and orders...surely from the Gospels if anything else.

Trust me there were plenty recorders of history at that time, hell most of them were Jewish scholars...and trust me none of there stuff sounds like the Bible where stories are told multiple times by different speakers who interpret the situation of teachings differently. They knew how to write history, they weren't stupid. But they did not write a History book...they wrote a canonization of a series of oral traditions, events, people, stories, myths, legends, writings and teachings of their peoples.

If you read something like that as 100% accurate you don't have much of an understanding of the text to begin with. And luckily MOST Christians don't.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

I'm pretty sure TW's also a a Christian.

I'm not...but f*** people need to stop putting it down like it's the freaking Devil (no pun intended). It's not some freaking cultish Pat Robertson headed religion of hate. It's sad how people let their views of the world become warped by television news.

 

[Tangled Web]

I didn't know it was wrong to defend my religion. Do you act this way when people make fun of you and your way of life? Just drop it...

I'm a Christian too man. You claim to be serious about it yet you stoop and insult someone's country and act extremely superior how is that for being a Christian? Hence why you are a hypocrite. Do you think Jesus Christ ever needed to bag on someone else's homeland?