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Discussion in 'Sports' started by Spidey-Bat, Jan 4, 2008.
Clemens is done.
Yeah, Clemens is screwed. He should have came out like Pettite did last month. Now he's going to be charged with perjury.
I cant wait to see them up there stumbling over themselves. Just like Mcgwire and Palmeiro
this is gonna be fun..you can lie to mike wallace, but ya cant lie to congress
Is anyone watching "60 Minutes" with Roger Clemens right now. You can tell in his face that he's lying. It's so hilarious when he gets asked a question, cause he just says "it didn't happen". He also hesitates with some of his questions.
Posted this in the other thread
Clemens Sues for Defamation
Only if he lies!
We all know he's telling the truth, and that B12 is administered through injections with a needle
I think he's telling the truth.
It's sad, how far down this country as gone. It's supposed to be Innocent until proven guilty.
How do you prove your innocent where evidence doesn't exist?
I mean, you can prove guilt by having incriminating evidence...but how do you prove innocence?
If you ask me, Clemens is being treated unfairly. There's no evidence, no smoking gun, no paper trail, no seller's to coroberate...just an angry little man who was scared to go to jail, and probably was co-herced into saying what he said.
Clemens seemed nervous last night, which makes sense when you consider the situation he's in.
And, he's doing what everyone said he was supposed to. He's suing! He's filing a suit! Yet, right now...everyone over at ESPN is railroading him on him filing a suit.
And B12 does get administered through injections too. Tons of athletes get it. Tons.
Is that you Rocket?
Clemens may be innocent. If he is, he is going out about this the wrong way. He took 5 days to respond to the Mitchell investigation. He had his YouTube video (a ****ing YT video!) several weeks after. Then almost a month later he appears on 60 minutes.
On top of this, look at the stats. He was awful at the end of his tenure in Boston, and then becomes amazing. In 2004 he had an incredible year with the Astros and he was over 40. No strict work out can do that alone.
Another thing, Brian McNamee had to tell the truth. If he didn't, federal prosecutors would have charged him. Here's what the idiot said:
How does lying get him out of going to jail if lying was going to get him prosecuted?
He wasn't awful im sure his run support was terrible. He had a mid 3 ERA, but still pitched 6 CG and 2 SHO's
Wow what a phone conversation. Mack Amay kept saying over and over to Clemens "Tell me what you want me to do"
He had an ERA of 4 or higher in '93 and '95. His last year he 3.6 ERA, but 1.3 WHIP and 106 BB. He was breaking down.
Very interesting phone conversation between Clemens and McNamee. They bring up a good point about McNamee never saying "you took steroids" in the conversation or "yes it is" when Clemens says that it wasn't the truth. McNamee sounded like he was very sorry in the conversation that this was effecting Clemens family.
McNamee and Clemens conversation was so bland. Neither guy blatantly came out and said "i never took steroids" "you never took steroids" "i took steroids" "you took steriods". It was a pretty wasted convo.
and they dont argue the whole time......McNamee never defends his claims. I'm not so sure he didn't know that he was being taped.
Clemens repeatedly said "I want the truth to come out". How come McNamee never said "you know it's the truth" or "you know you did it"? Clemens still hasn't proved to me he didn't take steroids, but the conversation brought up good points for both Clemens and McNamee. Clemens knew he was being taped, so he wasn't as pissed. McNamee on the other hand swore multiple times and got angry.
His lawyers advised him no to. He's got to listen to his lawyers, that's they're jobs...to advise him.
I disagree, in a way. Not just strict work outs...but incredible drive, and talent...which Clemens has. His numbers are great, but not to the point that Barry Bonds was in how it ballooned.
He was caught up in a Federal case. He was screwed. Which, funny enough, sounds like he probably was coerced...they told him to tell the "truth" as a get out of jail card. I mean, c'mon...if they sway you into letting you know what they wany, you can give it to them.
He was already going to jail. Then, after he got caught up in his own little storm...the Mitchell investigators were told who he was, and they went to talk to him and to cut a deal.
So, yeah...lying would have helped get him out of jail, since he was already looking at doing time.
Awful advice. I've heard some people in the legal business on TV say he should have filed the suit Dec 14.
They are. Strict workouts don't get you 106 BB to 68 BB in one season.
He told the truth about Pettitte. Why does he lie about Roger?
If he had to lie to get out of jail, wouldn't he lie by saying Clemens DIDN'T take steroids? Clemens isn't going to begin this massive campaign to prove him wrong. It would be much easier for him to get away by lying that Clemens didn't take steroids than if he lied saying he did.
Clemens laywer did state that he was worried that McAmee was trying to set up Clemens, so if Clemens had said "I want you to come with me on Monday", could have been seen as Clemens trying to force him, coherce him, or trying to buy him back to hold against him in court. As witness tampering, which is why they released the tape now because of the reports coming out about witness tampering.
That phone conversation helped Clemens, I think.
Or having an off-year. Supposedly, even when he stopped using...he still got better, if you believe McAmee.
There was a part in the conversation...near the beginning...where Roger tells McAmee "there's so much out there that's just untrue".....and if you listen for it, McAmee whispers "I know, I know."
The whole "tell me what you want me to do" smelled as if McAmee wanted Clemens to force him to do something. Remember, Clemens had his lawyers there holding him back from saying stuff, so not screw themselves over in court.
And..Clemens said he'll testify infront of Congress...and not use the "I cannot answer" reply everyone on ESPN said he was going to do.
Maybe. But, I doubt the lawyer thought it'd be this big a **** storm. His lawyer, did say the blame is on himself and not Roger.
C'mon, you have guys who have off seasons...where suddenly they're off they're game. Or, we'll have dudes that have a great year...and never get back on it. Injuries, that we don't know about could affect things. And the offense.
I think his workouts keep him in shape to perform, and not breakdown to pieces at his age.
Because Clemens is big fish. If you check the Mitchell Report, Clemens is the biggest one. Pettite is not a Hall Of Famer, and not a 7-time CY Young Award Winner. The Mitchell investigators had to know about Clemens and Pettite being friends, so it's not hard to imagine them pushing him toward there. I'm not saying they forced him to lie...but maybe they hinted at it. Investigators who hold a cookie over your head always want more, and I'm thinking they wanted more than just Andy.
Dude...he cut a deal. He was facing jail time, and they came to him wanting information. He said he didn't know anything, and then they fell on him harder for information...letting him know he had a deal on the table.
If you think about it, he must have been desperate. He wanted to get out of jail time, and knew by telling the investigators what they WANT to hear would get him out.
His run support has nothing to do with control. Strict workouts don't improve your control. Guys who have insane BB numbers and then significantly lower ones are usually awful mechanically and then fixed. Clemens is not one of those players.
Pettitte is still a high profile name.
The deal was tell us all you know and you won't have to go to jail. The deal wasn't "we want you to tell us information and we want you to say certain players used PEDs and you won't go to jail". No matter what, if he lied he was facing federal prosecution. The idea that the investigators strong armed him into lying is just stupid.
So...he used steroids and that gave him control???
I'd imagine the ball would maybe jump more or something...
He's a hard worker, and I think it's easier to read steriord use with a hitter. With Pitchers...what do you look at? His strikeouts? His hits? What?
He's big in New York.
But Clemens is a huge deal. A huge deal. A Hall Of Famer. Petitte is none of those. He's a big name, but not as big as any of the others in the report.
Nobody said he was strong armed.
But, they let him know what they wanted and about who they wanted. They let him know. He said Clemens did not use, until he finally took the deal.
And McAmee mentioned during the phone convo that they're holding jail time over his head. He's got as good a reason to stick to his "lie" as people say for Clemens, because he really doesn't want to go to jail.
Pettitte would be more recognizable if he wasn't in Clemens shadow every where they played.
If he wasn't injury prone, and not had left New York for 3 or 4 years...he probably would be more recognizable.
There was point where he seemd like Griffey, breaking down some seasons.