I thought the human characters in this were more interesting than, say, the human characters in Godzilla (save for Bryan Cranston). The key difference here is that you don't need the human characters to be all that compelling because it's really centered around Caesar and the apes, and that's okay. Ask anyone who their three favorite characters from Dawn were, and I guarantee that most wouldn't include any of the human characters in there.
The key difference here is that you don't need the human characters to be all that compelling because it's really centered around Caesar and the apes, and that's okay. Ask anyone who their three favorite characters from Dawn were, and I guarantee that most wouldn't include any of the human characters in there.
A character is a character whether they're human or ape. So the film has very interesting characters. There were no interesting ape characters in Citizen Kane, should I mark that against the film?
I thought the human characters in this were more interesting than, say, the human characters in Godzilla (save for Bryan Cranston). The key difference here is that you don't need the human characters to be all that compelling because it's really centered around Caesar and the apes, and that's okay. Ask anyone who their three favorite characters from Dawn were, and I guarantee that most wouldn't include any of the human characters in there.
If you look at the original Planet of the Apes, which remains the best film in the series, both the human and ape characters were interesting. That's the bar that the series should aspire too, not Gareth Edwards' Godzilla.
I think I agree with Hulk's assessment, given that the writers tried to make the humans interesting, the fact that they failed to do so is a problem with the film. It isn't the case that they didn't want the humans to be interesting. They all had defined motivations, backstories, and warm-family moments. What they lacked was a character arc. They were all the same in temperament at the start and end of the movie.
If you look at the original Planet of the Apes, which remains the best film in the series, both the human and ape characters were interesting. That's the bar that the series should aspire too, not Gareth Edwards' Godzilla.
If you look at the original Planet of the Apes, which remains the best film in the series, both the human and ape characters were interesting. That's the bar that the series should aspire too, not Gareth Edwards' Godzilla.
I think I agree with Hulk's assessment, given that the writers tried to make the humans interesting, the fact that they failed to do so is a problem with the film. It isn't the case that they didn't want the humans to be interesting. They all had defined motivations, backstories, and warm-family moments. What they lacked was a character arc. They were all the same in temperament at the start and end of the movie.
I'll say that the only problem I had was Kirk Acevedo's character. First he shoots one of the apes, a clumsy action that set things in motion in the first place. But he doesn't stop there. "We need him to work on the dam" - "Really?" Yeah because after you banished him, you didn't seem to have many problems working there. He screws up in the first place, for some reason they think it's good to bring him back, and obviously he brings a weapon with him. And really, what is he hoping to achieve? Even if he can pick off one or two apes, there's no way the weapon is gonna save him. So he manages to **** up once again and create even more tension.
I get it that both sides have these rotten-to-the-core characters that sets things in motion, but with Koba I think they managed to ramp it up slowly and it worked.
The human characters are overall quite undercooked in this film, but I think the compelling work done by some of main actors make up for it some. Russel, Clark and Oldman all sold their emotional moments and their interactions with the apes really well.
Finally saw this at the weekend and absolutely loved it. The humans were the secondary characters, for me. I felt invested in them enough. I loved the parallels between Koba and Carver. Koba just hated humans (with good reason) and Carver just hated the apes. They were as bad as each other.
Yeah, the humans we're satisfactory... didn't need to be more than what we got. I hate when we think everyone needs backstory and something special in a film. Do you know everything and more about your co-workers, your friends, and family... no.
It's nice seeing humans for what we are. The little windows into their characters are more than enough when we were mostly following the Apes and the film took place over a span of less than a weeks time. Case in point; Malcom's son & Ellie bonding over their losses, Carver being a blind a-hole because of what happened to his family, Ash being murdered, Koba's scars...
Also, can't believe how invested I was in Caesar and his family. That is why this is a perfect and great sequel, it builds up from the first and isn't merely a second part. It's a solid continuation of the themes, character arcs, and story from RotPotA.
Yeah, the humans we're satisfactory... didn't need to be more than what we got. I hate when we think everyone needs backstory and something special in a film. Do you know everything and more about your co-workers, your friends, and family... no.
We don't know much really about Taylor or Dr. Zaius but they are both fully realized characters with points of view.
This movie approaches establishing its characters in that way but a lot of the human material ended up on the cutting room floor.
The problem with the humans isn't that we don't know enough about them, its that they pretty much don't have a story arc. All of the human character end up pretty much where they started in relation to the apes. Clarke's character does gain Caesar's trust but he himself was pretty much always really chill toward the apes. There are hints of his son and girlfriend growing closer together but it never amounts to much.
I didn't have a problem with the way the humans were portrayed. Yes it was very bare bones in terms of motivation and backstory but they at least all had understandable and reasonable motivations. Koba's motivation was very basic as well but it worked. And in terms of narrative arc it was more about the two tribes coming to blows and sparking the war, which had to leave some of the minute character arcs streamlined and truncated to fit in a conglomerate. Though you definitely see it with Malcom becoming friends with Caesar and Dreyfus going too far in trying to protect the city. It's basic but it's there.
All but Carver/Dreyfus came around to the Apes through Malcolm's trust and friendship with Caesar. And, those ended ended up dead... so yeah.
The general public will of course not understand the greater scheme of things and sadly Caesar has to follow fit. To make a better Ape race, one that wouldn't turn to a Koba, he sadly has to fight the humans...
I'm hoping the 3rd film is the tail end of the 'War'. And, then we get 4/5/6 being a sequel (PotA remake) trilogy. If Dawn was roughly 2015, while Rise was 2000/2005.. this third film could be 2055-2075.
I have many crazy and fun ideas for the sequel trilogy... take with grain of salt, just spit balling.
Idea I: We jump ahead to 2,163(?) and we follow an Ape culture who treat Caesar as their God and are rarely advanced to where we were in the 60's-80's. And, the apes haven't seen humans in centuries. Taylor's crash-landing brings more of an Adam/Eve arc over three films for the humans and of course leads to a peaceful existence. I'd drop the devolved or mutated human plots from the originals. Humans don't exist any more... save for Taylor's crew.
Idea II. We jump ahead to 3,978(?), hark back to the original novel and have Apes super advanced technology [keep in line with some of the Apes are the only Earth inhabitants and Caesar is their God] and we have Cornelius & Zira are scientist astronauts who are leave the planet and come across Taylor's crew lost in space. They treat these humans with high regard but when they bring them back to Earth, the core Apes persecute the humans and treat C&Z as lepers who want to destroy their way of life.
I don't know, just fun ideas... they can literally go anywhere they want after the 'War'. Space, no space... Taylor reboot, Cornelius/Zira reboot, something more novel like, or what have you.
I thought it was fantastic, loved it. I'm not sure how much it would have deviated from the original writers original vision, given that a new writer came on but it felt like a natural progression and the character work was great.
I'm not sure where they would take it next, "war of the planet.." i guess but i did come out of the cinema wondering
if there would be a twist that the radio call they received was from other apes...
I don't think Koba is dead so he could join them to make it a war with the remaining humans in the middle maybe although that might be a little bit too like Dawn
I wonder what's going on with the Apes on the East coast.The original Planet of The Apes was set in New York so I wonder are we going to end up there eventually.
Good god, it was astonishing. I could watch a movie with only the apes in it, the opening 15 min are just so incredible, great idea by Reeves there. Not gonna say a lot that hasn't been said already. The CG is astounding, it looks photo-real like 95 % of the time, it struck me I think most of all in that daytime scene in the dam where
Koba challenges Caesar and he beats his ass, and Koba asks for forgiveness
the lighting here + Serkis' incredible performance, just surreal.
What surprises me most is, of course I did feel emotion with ROTPA but the leap here in the rendering is incredible & almost every section with the apes had me sometimes on the verge of tears, to be able to believe 100 % in those characters is just something else, there was that on Avatar, but here the technology is even better & those are apes, animals that exist in this life.
The script is extremely strong, it has a simple concept at the heart of it, but the execution & balancing humans & apes was key, and Reeves excels here, every step of the way. The human characters are good, there are no real villains (well aside from that di**
Koba
) here but it was important to get this right. The whole family aspect of it is probably its biggest strength.
Clarke, Russell & McPhee all deliver strong & likable performances, Serkis, I think, will never be praised as much as he should be (and yes, we should equally praise the WETA guys), sure, the CG is out of this world, but his performance, and Kebbell's, etc, etc, are what make those characters as convincing as they are.
It's been said, but create a category for performance capture performances & give Serkis all the Oscars, and WETA as well.
The story beats you can see coming but it's so exceptionally well directed & handled & performed that it doesn't matter.
The movie also felt so emotional to me a lot of the times, I'd want to spend two hours just with those apes, watching them live & I would be content, it's how convincing they are.
I'll finish up by mentioning Giacchino's score which is god tier & Michael Seresin's strong cinematography (kudos for that one tracking shot )
FINALLY saw this last night, dont know why its taken me so long, but anyway, superb film and an amazing sequel to the great 1st movie.
Everything about the Apes was superb, but Serkis and Kebbell took it to another level, any scene with either of them in, even if it was just one of them, was mesmerising, and of course when both of them were there it just left me speechless every-time.
LOVED Caesar having a family and us getting to see what that entails on a daily basis, especially with his eldest rebellious son, superb stuff there. Also loved Caesar going back to Will's house when he was injured, the scenes there were all great, especially him watching the video of him and Will. This all helped to make it a perfect sequel.
The amount of emotion in the movie is astonishing, the amount of times I was on verge of tears was amazing, only other movie to do this to me this year was DOFP. At the same time the amount of times the movie elated was also astonishing, again only DOFP has done this to me this year.
And yeah, as a bad guy, Koba is possibly this years best, amazing performance, I lost count at the amount of times I said 'Holy ****' at something Koba did, amazing writing, amazing performance and amazing effects.
The humans were all good as well, Clarke, Russell and Smit-McPhee made for a compelling makeshift family, and the guy who started it all was well played as well. That line he gives "Who the hell else am I gonna blame" is superb as for me it just sums an alarmingly large number of humans, its so simple and effective.
I have always likes Reeves, and though his 2 previous films were amazing, but he has shown he is the real deal here, I cant remember any other directors 1st 3 movies getting better and better. Once Apes 3 is done I hope either Marvel or DC signs him up for a CBM. At the same time, Fox has really got their act together from the dark times of 2004-2009, for me so far this year they have made the 2 best movies I have seen, and no other studio can rival them (though that may change when I see GOTG next week), credit to them.
I do have gripes, I would have liked to see Maurice have a bigger role (LOVED a lot of his scenes, especially him protecting the humans from Koba in the damn) and the same with Rocket. With Rocket I would have especially liked to have seen [BLACKOUT]His reaction to finding out Koba killed his son in cold blood for refusing to kill a human[/BLACKOUT]. I also wish they would have kept the score from the 1st movie, but the new score was pretty damn good.
But these are minor gripes in what was overall an amazing movie, 9.5/10, cant wait for the next one!
Incredible movie. Characters were awesome, emotion and storytelling was awesome, action was awesome, performances were awesome, score was awesome and visual effect the best in cinema history.
Caesar and Kobas relationship was amazing
The themes of the movie, Family, survival and the nature of good and evil were perfectly realised. Parallels between Caesar and Malcomb & Koba and Dreyfus were very well done.
The blue eyes subplot reminded me of Days of future past in the way that Blue Eyes (Mystique) was struggling to decide whose ideals to follow, Caesar (Xavier) or Koba (Magneto).
The movie represented the good and evil tendencies of both species so well. Perfectly demonstrated at the end [blackout]with Caesar denouncing Koba as a true Ape.[/blackout]
Koba was a true standout, one of the best villains of the 21st Century, imo.
Loved the subtle throwbacks to the original movies score when riding to the Human colony for the first time.
All in all this has cemented this year as one of the best for sequels and this franchise is tracking to have one of the best trilogies.
If this doesn't get an Oscar for visual effects I'd be shocked they were that good. So good that by the end you forgot they were effects.
When [blackout]Koba shot Caesar[/blackout]my jaw dropped, I was shocked. I mean I knew he had issues and was the villain but [blackout]he seemed quite loyal to Caesar so for him to shoot him like that was shocking for me[/blackout]. It was almost Shakespearean the way it unfolded
The amount of emotion in the movie is astonishing, the amount of times I was on verge of tears was amazing, only other movie to do this to me this year was DOFP. At the same time the amount of times the movie elated was also astonishing, again only DOFP has done this to me this year.
And yeah, as a bad guy, Koba is possibly this years best, amazing performance, I lost count at the amount of times I said 'Holy ****' at something Koba did, amazing writing, amazing performance and amazing effects.
^Agreed, great review to BTW. I think both Kebbell and Serkis deserve Oscar noms, but we know neither will get it, unbelievable really when you think about it.
Just for the "human work" scene alone they both deserve it!
^Exactly, which should mean they should get even more praise for it, but its ignored, Serkis has deserved an oscar nom for at least 4 of his performances IMO. Kebbell also deserves one for this.
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) here but it was important to get this right. The whole family aspect of it is probably its biggest strength.
)
