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Discussion: Gay Rights X

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I agree. Determining the level of responsibility someone has for someone else committing suicide just isn't an exact science.
 
I'm not sure what the guy deserved for this, but I sure wish he was more remorseful for what happened...

In the Phoebe Prince case, 6 teens were indicted, but plead guilty to lesser charges and were given probation and community service. What do ya'll think those teenagers should have received in that case?
 
Thundercrack85 said:
From what I've just read the people (in Bully) sued the school (for not stopping the bullying). I should watch it though.

But then you'd have to prove that the actions perpetrated by the bully (in this case, a single individual) caused the victim to kill themselves. Assuming that's even allowed.
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It would at best be an uphill battle for a prosecutor. Remember, the prosecution is responsible for proving guilt beyond all reasonable doubt. The mere fact that the victim is not alive to testify and therefore there is a lack of certainty as to why they killed themself is reasonable doubt.

Even if there is a video where they were to say, "I killed myself because so and so bullied me," there are still questions. First, can the words of someone who is about to kill themself really be consider accurate? There is a level of mental illness involved with suicide. Therefore the argument can be made that such evidence in unreliable due to the mental state of the victim. Second, can the prosecution prove mens rea (intent)? While they may be able to prove intent to bully, they'd also have to prove that the suspect had reasonable belief that his actions could result in suicide (an unreasonable response to bullying), this would be difficult. Finally, if there is a video, one could argue the Constitutionality of submitting it to evidence. The suspect has a right to confront their accuser which is not an option as the accuser is dead. To submit such highly prejudicial evidence which the defense has no ability or opportunity to impeach....I don't think that a judge would permit it.

In the end, it would be very difficult to charge a bully with manslaughter or murder. Because even if you got past all of that, the fact that the bully is being charged with someone else's action remains. I don't see it working. Frankly, I am okay with that as the precedent that it sets (charging someone else with a crime that is an action committed by another) is terrifying.
 
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It's just that people can be so damned cruel. I hope this kid never forgets what he caused.
 
Kelly said:
I'm not sure what the guy deserved for this, but I sure wish he was more remorseful for what happened...

In the Phoebe Prince case, 6 teens were indicted, but plead guilty to lesser charges and were given probation and community service. What do ya'll think those teenagers should have received in that case?
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I think that the prosecution handled it well. It is easy to paint these kids as monsters but in the end, they are just dumb kids doing what every dumb kid has done in their life. It is tragic that anyone would take their life in response....but she made the choice. The harrassment charges were the way to go.
 
Maximum Carnage said:
It's just that people can be so damned cruel. I hope this kid never forgets what he caused.
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I'd imagine most kids are haunted by it if the person whom they bully commits suicide. As I assume most of these people are not total psychopaths, there must be a level of remorse. With the Rutgers spying case, I don't think that there is any remorse. Just the vibe that I get.
 
I think Ravi is a *****ebag....but that's not grounds to lock him up and throw away the key.

And no way would it be legally justifiable to charge him with murder.

Though I do think the time he served was ridiculously short.
 
I'm not vibing a remorseful feeling either. it may hit him later in life.... But there should be a place for these people, and I would have ordered him to have community service, one that benefits homosexuals. As well as attending meetings for gays who've attempted suicide and family members who've lost children from it.
 
spideyboy_1111 said:
I'm not vibing a remorseful feeling either. it may hit him later in life.... But there should be a place for these people, and I would have ordered him to have community service, one that benefits homosexuals. As well as attending meetings for gays who've attempted suicide and family members who've lost children from it.
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He was sentenced to 300 hours of community service though the exact details of the community service are unspecified. Furthermore, he does have to go to sensitivity counseling, which is probably more conducive than going to meetings that should be for grieving families and being paraded around them as some sort of sideshow. He'd only serve as a distraction at the meetings that you recommend.
 
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If I had a gay family member who'd committed or attempted suicide due to homophobic bullying or harassment, Ravi is one of the last people I'd want there.
 
Schlosser85 said:
If I had a gay family member who'd committed or attempted suicide due to homophobic bullying or harassment, Ravi is one of the last people I'd want there.
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I agree, maybe as part of his counselling he should be made to watch tapes of the family's session. Was it proven in the case he made the spy tape due to being a homophobe or just because he's an *******?
 
Yeah, that's the vibe I got from him. If his roommate were straight, I think he'd have done the same thing. It has less to do with being a bigot and more to do with being an ******* in general.
 
spideyboy_1111 said:
I'm not vibing a remorseful feeling either. it may hit him later in life.... But there should be a place for these people, and I would have ordered him to have community service, one that benefits homosexuals. As well as attending meetings for gays who've attempted suicide and family members who've lost children from it.
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I didn't see a drop of remorse in him, whatsoever.....I do not think he believes that he has ANY fault, whatsoever....

And I agree with those that say he shouldn't be locked up, etc...etc....that's fine, I would simply being paying for his room and board, I would rather him be out paying taxes...but damn, he should have to do SOMETHING.....stand on a street corner with a sign that says......"I filmed a gay guy and showed it to all my friends, he committed suicide becuase of the humiliation I caused....honk if you think I'm a *****ebag...." every Friday night on the busiest night life street corner in the city....for a year AT LEAST...
 
You are assuming he killed himself just because of that though.

They never released his suicide letter to the public.
 
He's an ass, so the ASSumption fits...: ) And really that is more wishful thinking than anything else....
 
Kelly said:
she should have to do SOMETHING.....stand on a street corner with a sign that says......"I filmed a gay guy and showed it to all my friends, he committed suicide becuase of the humiliation I caused....honk if you think I'm a *****ebag...." every Friday night on the busiest night life street corner in the city....for a year AT LEAST...
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Damn, girl! That's delightfully creative!
 
Kelly said:
I didn't see a drop of remorse in him, whatsoever.....I do not think he believes that he has ANY fault, whatsoever....

And I agree with those that say he shouldn't be locked up, etc...etc....that's fine, I would simply being paying for his room and board, I would rather him be out paying taxes...but damn, he should have to do SOMETHING.....stand on a street corner with a sign that says......"I filmed a gay guy and showed it to all my friends, he committed suicide becuase of the humiliation I caused....honk if you think I'm a *****ebag...." every Friday night on the busiest night life street corner in the city....for a year AT LEAST...
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This....I like quite a bit. Humiliate him the way that he humiliated the victim.
 
So how about that Dan "It gets better" Savage and his "House ******s" comment
 
It's on Advocate.com string search Dan Savage.
 
From 2002, Mitt Romney being for gay rights, before he was against it...

tumblr_lxgltwuxX71qiqaaro1_500.jpg
 
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