Discussion: High Speed Rail

[Kelly]

That's what the government does.....give me want I don't want....because they think I need it.

 

[dnno1]

I'm a big supporter of high speed rail and I do not like seeing any cuts being made to the project.

Look, $2.43 billion was rejected by the state of Florida alone. The $1.5 billion can come out of that since they don't want the money. They probably could have cut more out of that since states like Wisconsin, Virginia, and Ohio also turned down funds. I am a big supporter of high speed rail as well, but If states don't want the (funding for political reasons) you might as well not spend it.

 

[chaseter]

(or common sense reasons)

(because a high speed rail in Wisconsin makes total sense) I guess you could make half of the passenger cars cattle cars.

 

[dnno1]

That's what the government does.....give me want I don't want....because they think I need it.

I don't know about you, but I certainly appreciate the roads I drive on, the fact that the food I eat is safe, the fact that I can safely fly in airplanes, that my kids get free education, that my country is protected from hostile invasion, and the fact that there are laws that prevent others from taking advantage of me. You might boast that you don't want the services they may provide, but in truth many of them you willingly use every day with no complaint.

 

[chaseter]

Ah yes...the oldest straw man in the book.

We need high speed rails because the government gives us safe food to eat.

 

[Kelly]

And guess what dnno1, I AGREE, BUT.......BUT...........BUT...............I want all of those agencies to run more effectively, more efficiently, and without repetition in duties.......GUESS WHAT.....the government doesn't want to give me what I want.

 

[Franklin Richards]

We need high speed rail because it's good for business to travel from one place to the other.

 

[Kelly]

What information do we have that high speed rail is in demand anywhere other than the northeast cooridor?

I mean, that business men and women, have a demand for it...because in Dallas and Houston, it is just a black hole for profit....

I say for right now, natural gas buses are a much better investment for inner city to edge city transportation. As someone said earlier, lets slow down on this, and start in the northeastern cooridor of megalopolis and see how that goes. Hell, even one that runs from Maine to Florida, to see how it works out.

 

[dnno1]

(or common sense reasons)

(because a high speed rail in Wisconsin makes total sense) I guess you could make half of the passenger cars cattle cars.

Wisconsin only has one commuter rail service at this time (Kenosha-Racine-Madison). Prior to the Walker Administration, the plan was to build a line that would service Milwaukee, WI all the way to Minneapolis-St. Paul, MN as well as a network of commuter rails that would service the rest of the state. You mentioned cattle cars (meaning freight). Right now, 33% of the freight in that state runs on rail, but it is expected to grow by 17% in another 20 years or so. That high speed rail funding would have helped to build all of that.

 

[Franklin Richards]

What information do we have that high speed rail is in demand anywhere other than the northeast cooridor?

I mean, that business men and women, have a demand for it...because in Dallas and Houston, it is just a black hole for profit....

I say for right now, natural gas buses are a much better investment for inner city to edge city transportation. As someone said earlier, lets slow down on this, and start in the northeastern cooridor of megalopolis and see how that goes. Hell, even one that runs from Maine to Florida, to see how it works out.

I-35 Corridor would benefit greatly from high speed rail. Dallas - Waco - Austin - San Antonio would boom.

 

[dnno1]

What information do we have that high speed rail is in demand anywhere other than the northeast cooridor?

I mean, that business men and women, have a demand for it...because in Dallas and Houston, it is just a black hole for profit....

I say for right now, natural gas buses are a much better investment for inner city to edge city transportation. As someone said earlier, lets slow down on this, and start in the northeastern cooridor of megalopolis and see how that goes. Hell, even one that runs from Maine to Florida, to see how it works out.

You have to go to the Departments of Transportation of each of those states to get that information. Each of them along with the findings of the National Surface Transpiration Policy and Revenue Study Commission (founded by the Republican led 109th Congress) for that information. They have looked at the foretasted needs of the entire country for the next 50 years.

 

[chaseter]

Lets take the CA example. It costs 65+ billion to build 300 miles of track, which is the same distance between Milwauke and Minneapolis. You think that is worth it?

 

[enterthemadness]

I don't know about you, but I certainly appreciate the roads I drive on, the fact that the food I eat is safe, the fact that I can safely fly in airplanes, that my kids get free education, that my country is protected from hostile invasion, and the fact that there are laws that prevent others from taking advantage of me. You might boast that you don't want the services they may provide, but in truth many of them you willingly use every day with no complaint.

Ha. TSA is on a rampage. It's not even safe to go to airports anymore. Nothing but government perverts.

 

[dnno1]

Lets take the CA example. It costs 65+ billion to build 300 miles of track, which is the same distance between Milwauke and Minneapolis. You think that is worth it?

That's what the critics (like the libertarian Reason Foundation and the conservative Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association) say. The official estimate was $45 billion (in 2009-2010 dollars) for the entire project and a quarter of that is going to be funded by private industry (the other 75% will come from federal, state, and local grants as well as bond money). Now you ask if it is worth it? First of all, there are some things about California that can not be disputed. The state is growing in population, and the estimate is that there will be 50 million residents by the year 2030. Those people and all the goods that they will require will have to move around the state somehow. On top of that the current transpiration system is barely serving the current population. Certainly it is worth it.

 

[dnno1]

Ha. TSA is on a rampage. It's not even safe to go to airports anymore. Nothing but government perverts.

People are still going to airports and traveling on airplanes. Don't believe the hype. My point about flying safely in airports applied to the FAA ensuring that the planes we fly in are safe and not junk. Recent bad press about the TSA is old news now and has not really affected the traveling habits of Americans.

 

[Paradoxium]

This thread needs to be renamed as: Non-Profit Slow Speed Public Rail t:

 

[dnno1]

This thread needs to be renamed as: Non-Profit Slow Speed Public Rail t:

Any rail system with a possible speed of 125 mph or greater is considered High Speed Rail (HSR) and there will be someone making a profit from this, so the title need not be changed.

 

[enterthemadness]

People are still going to airports and traveling on airplanes. Don't believe the hype. My point about flying safely in airports applied to the FAA ensuring that the planes we fly in are safe and not junk. Recent bad press about the TSA is old news now and has not really affected the traveling habits of Americans.

TSA just got in the headlines again...cause of a 6 year old girl being patted down. And as for safe planes...well, not at Southwest. But those planes are being fixed up.

 

[dnno1]

TSA just got in the headlines again...cause of a 6 year old girl being patted down. And as for safe planes...well, not at Southwest. But those planes are being fixed up.

A twitter feed? Really, did that change anyone's traveling habits? BTW, the video showed the TSA agent explaining to both the girl and her mother exactly what she was doing as the search was in progress. Certainly, if we didn't search everybody, then those not being searched could easily slip some type of terror weapon onto the plane. If you don't want a full body scan, which some polls say most Americans prefer now, then you will have to subject yourself to a pat down search. You just have to deal with it until the terrorist surrender.

 

[Paradoxium]

Money Losing, Marginally Used, Legal HSR but Relatively Slow, Public Rail t:

 

[dnno1]

Money Losing, Marginally Used, Legal HSR but Relatively Slow, Public Rail t:

If you are talking about the government losing money, it doesn't really matter. Governments are not supposed to make a profit. Marginally used? If the price point comes in cheaper than flying I am sure that a good number of people would opt to take a 2 hour and 38 minute trip to San Francisco via HSR than to spend three hours in an airport to take a 50 minute trip in in airplane to the same place. Even at 125 mph, it is still faster than conventional rail.

 

[chaseter]

That's what the critics (like the libertarian Reason Foundation and the conservative Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association) say. The official estimate was $45 billion (in 2009-2010 dollars) for the entire project and a quarter of that is going to be funded by private industry (the other 75% will come from federal, state, and local grants as well as bond money). Now you ask if it is worth it? First of all, there are some things about California that can not be disputed. The state is growing in population, and the estimate is that there will be 50 million residents by the year 2030. Those people and all the goods that they will require will have to move around the state somehow. On top of that the current transpiration system is barely serving the current population. Certainly it is worth it.

Yes...believe what the government tells you it will cost. They don't lie.

Even on the California website, it says that it will bring a billion dollars in annual revenue. So...it will take 45 years to pay off the the original construction costs. Yes...that will bring in the investors.

California is having to borrow millions and millions of dollars a day just to not go bankrupt. There debt is 340 billion dollars. They are driving out businesses and people.

This is the problem with the DNC. Spend, spend, spend.

 

[Paradoxium]

The Moral of the story, government is never wrong. They never underestimate spending, and are very efficient at getting things done quickly. They don't have to deal with red tape. In fact the Government has a treasured record at at making more money than private investors.

These are all the justification for the Non-Profit Slow Speed Public Rail system. It cannot possibly fail. They passed legislation to ban money losing and inefficient public pet projects. Thus there is no way it will happen now since that is illegal.

Get 'er done Obama t:

 

[chaseter]

Governments are not supposed to make a profit.

It saddens me that some people think this way.

Governments aren't supposed to run in the black. Red is the new black.

 

[Handsome Rob]

If you are talking about the government losing money, it doesn't really matter. Governments are not supposed to make a profit. Marginally used? If the price point comes in cheaper than flying I am sure that a good number of people would opt to take a 2 hour and 38 minute trip to San Francisco via HSR than to spend three hours in an airport to take a 50 minute trip in in airplane to the same place. Even at 125 mph, it is still faster than conventional rail.

And here we have the classic leftist mentality on display:

1. It doesn't matter if the government loses money on a venture. Never mind that this is being paid from taxpayer money! We don't owe it to them to make sure ventures can at least break even!!

2. Price point mentality completely ignores that "cheaper" ignores the price of government subsidies to keep the operation running . . . at a loss, mind you. And if you do so, it may seem cheaper. But it may not be in reality. But then again, what does reality matter when it feeeeeeeels right?

3. Marginal use? Who cares?? We want the high speed rail, so it doesn't matter whether or not we can afford it or whether it would even get used enough to justify its existence. In fact, we shouldn't even consider that. We want it, so let's do it! We'll just raise taxes! Or print money! Or issue more debt instruments!