Does anyone find the Hulk a bit overpowered?

[Mutagen]

Oh, I saw that fight, that wasn't strenght breaking a lock with counter motion at all, that was jerk force giving reverse leverage. quite different. Again, joints do not bend in reverse no matter how strong you are.

I don't study physics or the human body, so I'll take your word for it. Keep in mind though, that the Hulk is huge, and I doubt someone could grip him enough for a pin. Also, imagine the opponent somehow tried to lock him and failed, because I don't think Hulk would let someone grip him a second time, he would rip them in half, that is if they are not quick enough.

 

[Mario_Galaxy]

Hulk is overpowered, but then again he's not the brightest bulb in the pack. Can't have everything. Kinda like how Electro could be one of the most powerful guys in the MU if not for his inferiority complex. I think writers just don't know how to utilize Hulk's power rationally.

 

[rodhulk]

Especially when that strength can rip someone in half.

The guy who's trying to compare Gracie's and bigger opponents to the Hulk and his opponents doesn't understand one thing, you can't compare the strength of the Hulk (which always increases with anger) to a person (a person can't increase beyond their physical ability).

The strength of the Hulk can be like that of a big digger machine (or a backhoe) that has it's digger like that of a human arm or leg as there is a joint like an elbow joint or knee joint. A person could never bend that joint and if somebody is working it, that digger can easily move around in any direction that it is able to move around without any problem, even if somebody like a Gracie is trying a submission move on it. LOL. This may seem a little ridiculous but the point is there. Hulk has the strength to break out of submission techniques. That's one of his abilities.

And we see physically strong people use their strength (not technique) to escape from smaller/weaker opponents (including the Gracie's) submission techniques all the time in the NHB world of MMA.

 

[moraldeficiency]

The guy who's trying to compare Gracie's and bigger opponents to the Hulk and his opponents doesn't understand one thing, you can't compare the strength of the Hulk (which always increases with anger) to a person (a person can't increase beyond their physical ability).

The strength of the Hulk can be like that of a big digger machine (or a backhoe) that has it's digger like that of a human arm or leg as there is a joint like an elbow joint or knee joint. A person could never bend that joint and if somebody is working it, that digger can easily move around in any direction that it is able to move around without any problem, even if somebody like a Gracie is trying a submission move on it. LOL. This may seem a little ridiculous but the point is there. Hulk has the strength to break out of submission techniques. That's one of his abilities.

And we see physically strong people use their strength (not technique) to escape from smaller/weaker opponents (including the Gracie's) submission techniques all the time in the NHB world of MMA.

Sweet jesus on roller skates, here's what you're not following even a little once place in a proper lock you would have to either A dislocate your body or B break your joint in two to get out. Now the problem with this is A can't work because the hulk's own body would keep getting stronger so he couldn't dislocate his joints as his own strenght would work against him in that manner and B can't work because no body (even super duper strong ones) cannot CANNOT break a joint with reverse motion on it's own (you need to use your other arm to accomplish this). Now here's the kicker, it DOESN'T matter how strong you are, in this instance the stronger you are the LESS you can do in those situations. The more dense your muscle the less chance you can accomplish option A (the only one that would help). Now I know the hulk has magic strength that can do anything, I'm just talking about fight machanics, logic and common sense. Herc's vast experience in one of the most effective possible martial arts against a stronger opponent would have him owning hulk (who has no fight training or ability whatsoever, and please don't mention his "fight" style which consists of clapping his hands, stomping his feat or any other small baby temper tantrum motions which some think make up a style) each and every time.

The people you're talking about breaking holds either do it before the lock is completed, are breaking an imperfect or sloppy lock or have the leverage to do so. My thought would be herc the guy with more experience than anyone on earth with grappling by over a thousand years would be a little better than anyone we've ever seen in MMA (which is a joke now).

 

[rodhulk]

Sweet jesus on roller skates, here's what you're not following even a little once place in a proper lock you would have to either A dislocate your body or B break your joint in two to get out. Now the problem with this is A can't work because the hulk's own body would keep getting stronger so he couldn't dislocate his joints as his own strenght would work against him in that manner and B can't work because no body (even super duper strong ones) cannot CANNOT break a joint with reverse motion on it's own (you need to use your other arm to accomplish this). Now here's the kicker, it DOESN'T matter how strong you are, in this instance the stronger you are the LESS you can do in those situations. The more dense your muscle the less chance you can accomplish option A (the only one that would help). Now I know the hulk has magic strength that can do anything, I'm just talking about fight machanics, logic and common sense. Herc's vast experience in one of the most effective possible martial arts against a stronger opponent would have him owning hulk (who has no fight training or ability whatsoever, and please don't mention his "fight" style which consists of clapping his hands, stomping his feat or any other small baby temper tantrum motions which some think make up a style) each and every time.

The people you're talking about breaking holds either do it before the lock is completed, are breaking an imperfect or sloppy lock or have the leverage to do so. My thought would be herc the guy with more experience than anyone on earth with grappling by over a thousand years would be a little better than anyone we've ever seen in MMA (which is a joke now).

First of all, you're trying to apply human limitations to the Hulk who A) doesn't exist in our real world so there's no reason why he needs to conform to a real world human B) it is an ability of the Hulk to break holds even if it seems impossible. Remember, this same Hulk has punched through time which also seems impossible so Hulk breaking holds shouldn't sound so ridiculous to you. If it still does, go back to option A. C) Hulk can increase his strength in a fight so that he can get so strong, he could stabilize his arm/leg and then break the hold and/or pull free (have a 2 year old put a lock on you and try to get out by strength, yes, you most likely will - the Hulk can get so strong this comparison still doesn't apply to him) D) Hulk's healing factor just may come into effect here healing and or minimizing the pain as he breaks out.

Again, I'll simply go with options A and B for the most likely cause but option C and D can be counted in too.

As for your MMA talk, some people have gotten completely locked in and they escaped by strength which could be simply powering out in reverse motion from the hold or pulling out. It happens on occasion. If you're taught differently, then you're taught wrong. The Gracie's used to say that the mount technique couldn't be countered either yet it does often including on them themselves.

MMA a joke now? I hope you're joking by saying that. The best fighter in MMA history is a current fighter whom many recognize as the best. Yes, Fedor Emelinko. Royce Gracie or one of his relatives whom was considered better than Royce lost to Mario Sperry years ago and Mario Sperry says that Antonio Rodrigo Noguiera is better than him (they train together so he knows). And yet Antonio Rodrigo Noguiera has lost twice to Fedor, very convincingly. Recently, Maurico Rua said Fedor is the best. George St. Pierre has said Fedor is the best. Other top fighters have said the Fedor is the best.

The only thing that is a joke is the organizations that have Fedor and yet seem to always take forever to get a tournament together for Fedor to fight in. He's in his early 30's now. He's getting out if his prime. They gotta get him fighting.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

No.

I second that. His strength is perfect, IMO.

 

[moraldeficiency]

MMA a joke now? I hope you're joking by saying that.

This is the only part worth responding too, the magic strength can do magic stuff is just silly. MMA is a joke now do the the overabundance of rules and *****fication of the sport. It used to be bad and bloody, now it just looks like a stupid martial arts tournament.

 

[Dark Carnage]

Who cares? Hulk didn't beat Black Bolt to a bloody pulp and i'm happier for it

Indeed.

Heh, it's kinda funny.

A victory of his is revoked, within a story where he was supposedly at his most powerful, everyone is happy.

So, why isn't Blackbolt considered overpowered if "Hulk To The Max" shouldn't be able to beat him?

 

[moraldeficiency]

Heh, it's kinda funny.

A victory of his is revoked, within a story where he was supposedly at his most powerful, everyone is happy.

So, why isn't Blackbolt considered overpowered if "Hulk To The Max" shouldn't be able to beat him?

Because BB's powers are not very controllable. He opens his voice and everything gets leveled. His power is really one of his biggest handicap as he could very easily kill all his own people by accident. As a result this king cannot even address his people directly. BB can also be beat fairly easily if you can avoid that one real threat and blindside him quick or from some distance. BB can be taken down with a good shot to the head from behind so he's not too overpowered and it's not like his power keeps getting stronger either, it's just that if he nails you point blank with a word, you're ****ed.

 

[Mr. Green]

(have a 2 year old put a lock on you and try to get out by strength, yes, you most likely will - the Hulk can get so strong this comparison still doesn't apply to him)

Heh, you beat me to it! That's pretty much the analogy that disproves the "Hulk can be beat by holds" argument.

Even if you could get close enough to the Hulk without getting owned, put him in the perfect hold, and held it for a really long time, Hulk would just rip your arms off or something. Or if he wasn't strong enough to beat the hold with strength, he would just get angrier and angrier until he could do that.

I don't care how good the hold is, if some kindergartner put me in a hold I would easily beat the crap out of him (a thought that I find really funny!).

 

[moraldeficiency]

My money's on the kindergartner, better training and fight experience, and clearly more grounded in reality and less prone to fantastical leaps in logic akin to day dreaming crossed with tripping balls.

And comparing a herc/hulk fight to a kindergartner and a grown man is just an epic fail.

 

[Spike_x1]

Heh, you beat me to it! That's pretty much the analogy that disproves the "Hulk can be beat by holds" argument.

Even if you could get close enough to the Hulk without getting owned, put him in the perfect hold, and held it for a really long time, Hulk would just rip your arms off or something. Or if he wasn't strong enough to beat the hold with strength, he would just get angrier and angrier until he could do that.

I don't care how good the hold is, if some kindergartner put me in a hold I would easily beat the crap out of him (a thought that I find really funny!).

Why would the Hulk get angrier just because he's locked in a hold? Maybe if his opponent started calling Hulk's mom fat, then I could see him getting angrier. Maybe someone can prove me wrong, but I have not seen a fight where the Hulk gets stronger/madder just because he's frustrated over his opponent beating him (maybe the pain being inflicted on him would be enough to raise his rage a tad, but not the fact that he's being beaten). Every time I've seen him battle someone who is stronger than him, there's always some contributing factor that gets Hulk mad enough to raise his strength level, other than him being on the losing side. I mean, in Jones' run, where Hulk's fighting the Abomination, it's clear that Emil is winning until he starts bragging about killing Betty, which is what tips the scales in the Hulk's favor.

And recently, Rulk had Hulk in that hold that broke Hulk's arm and then knocked the Hulk out. The Hulk didn't exactly go "Rarr! I can't get out of this hold... which incidentally makes me mad enough, and strong enough, to break out."

I believe that it has to be something more than just simple frustration that would increase the Hulk's rage. If he's fighting Spider-man, I don't think that the Hulk would get madder and stronger simply over the fact that Spidey would be flipping around and dodging all of his attacks. Maybe if Peter started to make fun of the Hulk and insult him or something, then I could probably see the Hulk's strength going up a bit.

 

[Obi-Ron]

And recently, Rulk had Hulk in that hold that broke Hulk's arm and then knocked the Hulk out. The Hulk didn't exactly go "Rarr! I can't get out of this hold... which incidentally makes me mad enough, and strong enough, to break out."

Everything about the red Hulk storyline has thrown established continuity out the window, so it's hard to take anything in it seriously.

 

[SenseiofCheese]

Even if you could get close enough to the Hulk without getting owned, put him in the perfect hold, and held it for a really long time, Hulk would just rip your arms off or something. Or if he wasn't strong enough to beat the hold with strength, he would just get angrier and angrier until he could do that.

That is exactly what I was saying earlier in this thread. Hulk comes up against someone he can't beat. So he just gets angrier, and gets stronger, and then he can beat them.

How is that not overpowered?

 

[Spike_x1]

Everything about the red Hulk storyline has thrown established continuity out the window, so it's hard to take anything in it seriously.

True enough.

Still though, I don't think that the simple act of putting the Hulk in a hold and keeping him there would be enough to put him in a rage and increase his strength enough to break free.

 

[CosmicCow]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Doom
but it proves my point that power can overcome guile

But can it overcome Chun Li?

Lol. best comment in this thread.


Anywho, I do find Hulk over-powered BUT if he just turned green and became moderately powerful, what's the point? Not being a fan of the Hulk myself, I feel that b/c of his incredible strength and low-intelligence(or unable to think straight due to anger) hulk can never fully develop into a deeper or more interesting character. A price he must pay for being a brute. I love the Jeckyll and hyde archtype, but "most" (I'm sure not all) writers seem to focus on the GREEN machine b/c it's cool ad full of destruction.

Unrelated: I can just imagine Jubilee pissing off the hulk with her stupid fireworks...lol. What a waste Jubilee was, especially in the 90's cartoon.

*Side Note: I've only read some of the hulk of which my friends own, so i do not claim to be an expert.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

You hit the nail on the head in spite of your relative lack of reading. The Hulk doesn't develop in his savage, childlike state. He exists only as a foil for Bruce Banner, who is sophisticated and intelligent enough to develop as a character. It's only when we see other sides of the Hulk (Joe Fixit, Planet Hulk, professor, Maestro) that we actually see the Hulk himself develop. In fact, Planet Hulk was cool because it had a role reversal where Banner, who's relatively consistent, was used as a foil to acknowledge the amazing development of the Hulk's character.

But, like you said, even though the "default" Hulk is nothing more than a plot device, the focus has shifted more and more onto him because he's big and he can break stuff.

 

[Chris Wallace]

BUT if he just turned green and became moderately powerful, what's the point? I feel that b/c of his incredible strength and low-intelligence(or unable to think straight due to anger) hulk can never fully develop into a deeper or more interesting character. A price he must pay for being a brute. I love the Jeckyll and hyde archtype, but "most" (I'm sure not all) writers seem to focus on the GREEN machine b/c it's cool ad full of destruction.

This I agree with. If he were just moderately powerful, like they depicted him on the TV series, it would get boring real quick, I think. He's fighting tanks & bombers & the technology of Iron Man, and that's when there's no SERIOUS threat for him to face. What would you have him do? Struggle & strain to overturn a tank?

Besides, his strength is all he's got. Unlike Superman, who has-what? 10 different abilities, the Hulk is all about muscle and strength. Remember, his catch phrase is "Hulk smash", which alone suggests that there aren't too many things he's likely to come across that he can't smash.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Smashing's one thing. Punching his way through time and seeing ghosts and s*** are something else entirely. And the constant raising of the bar with his uppermost strength level just gets tedious after years and years of, "Oh no, the Hulk's not strong enough... oh wait, he is!"

 

[Mr. Green]

Punching through time is ******ed.

That said, PAD and Pak still came up with some fun and interesting stories involving the Hulk. I mean, even though he's hard to beat, he's still pretty interesting and there's still a bunch of villains that can give him a hard time.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Smashing's one thing. Punching his way through time and seeing ghosts and s*** are something else entirely. And the constant raising of the bar with his uppermost strength level just gets tedious after years and years of, "Oh no, the Hulk's not strong enough... oh wait, he is!"

I'm not defending bad plot devices. That was stupid. That's right up there with Superman stopping time & lifting 500 million pounds of Kryptonite, Wolverine getting seared to the bone & making a full recovery in, like, two panels, and Spider-Man not getting a warning if he's attacked by someone whom he doesn't consciously consider a threat. No, I am defending the Hulk's power level in general.

 

[unstoppable]

It's like you're going up to a scientist and saying "there's no gravity" and that's it. There's no logic or reasoning other than you're but he get's stronger argument which has nothing to do with leverage or body locks. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you've never sparred before cause you might have a different opinion after understanding that no matter how strong you get your joints will NOT bend the other way. You cannot break your elbow just by trying to exert force in the opposite direction (without using your other arm or an object for leverage of course). It is impossible no matter how strong you are, you also cannot lift your body off the ground by pulling up on your head (but I'm gonna say you probably think hulk could do that too as long as he was really really strong). When you use someone's strenght against them and they have no skill or leverage you win and they lose. Now writers can and do write whatever they like, I'm talking physical laws here there's only one cheat for those in reality.

Seriously go watch a couple gracie fights.

I can't pick a side without knowing what kind of lock this is.

 

[spider-neil]

I thought the hulk was ridiculously over powered in the hulk v thor (blu ray/dvd) and then inconsistantly depowered in the hulk v wolverine battle.

 

[chris moore]

I'm fine with the Hulk only being about his Strength, durability and healing factor. In fact it would be fine with me if his strength had no upper limit and explained by his rage drawing on the very energy of the universe, or even hyperspace. Limiting his powers to strength makes it perfectly acceptable to give him an infinite amount of strength, if only limited by his anger. That way he can be of Thing like strength when calm(ish) and so not overpowered for battling bad guys. But then have the capacity for limitless strength. Like Chris Wallace said; Superman has too many unrelated powers at huge levels to really justify an insane level of superstrength, particularly as its a constant level of superstrength. If anything it would be easy to swallow if Supes had constant strength of 200 tonnes or something, and Hulk to have calm mood strength of 100 tonnes. That way Supes could theoretically take the Hulk until he pisses him off. Then every aspect of Hulk's physiology increases, including durability, stamina and healing factor. Same for Silver Surfer, Thor and all the other "beyond imagining superstrong" Marvel characters - they have constant incredibly high strength levels without it being ridiculous (well, more ridiculous than 200 tonnes already is of course)

By the way - why is it Hulk can't be taken down or even calmed with telepathy?

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Because he's too angry!