RdeemingRainbow
Civilian
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2009
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- 149
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- 11
To use your own context for a moment, this is actually part of what I'm saying -- you don't actually know if you are joking here about something that deals immediately with someone in the present at the time. Some people's comments here are about fat people in general, and have even argued that they deserve no sympathy at all and vilifies them in very cruel ways. There are almost surely SHH posters reading this to whom those things apply, not just to the man who died here, and those posters probably feel pretty bad about those comments. The type of comments is important, you keep just describing it as "jokes" when it's gone beyond that into extremely hostile and outright mean-spirited remarks about not just this guy but overweight people in general and addicts etc, saying they deserve no respect or sympathy. How is that within the realm of just "jokes"? And many jokes are of a sort that have hostility and meanness beyond just joking around.
So your own view about what makes something cross a line of taste applies here, and that's what I keep trying to point out. Plus lots of these comments are beyond just jokes, anyway. And none of you have called each other out about this aspect of it, only those of us who have been arguing with you from the start have made any comments saying some of these remarks are beyond joking and likely apply to other posters who may feel embarrassed and disrespected and humiliated and hated (since some people keep saying they hate and disrespect and have no sympathy for fat people). Why the complete unwillingness to express any regret at about some remarks not being jokes, being mean and possibly being hurtful to other posters?
But I would in fact say that I disagree with your assertion that it only crosses lines of taste if it deals immediately with someone present at the time. That may be how YOU feel about it, but obviously other people can and do disagree. You may not think some people's comments crossed a line into bad taste, but it's obviously a subjective thing -- as is my own view of it, of course. The point being, if it's subjective, then there WILL be people (as there clearly are) who think some of these remarks crossed the line, and who find it offensive. Now, this isn't saying that you always have to be held to other people's standards and always be worried about offending someone -- some people will find offense too easily perhaps, some will look for it, and you can't go through life never speaking your mind in case it offends someone.
BUT, if you say things that deal with joking about someone's death in tragic circumstances, and other people SAY it is hurtful and offensive, and they point out that you may not think it crossed a line but that some of the remarks clearly could and probably do apply to people present at this time who ARE seeing the comments and to whom the comments DO deal immediately with them or some aspect of their lives or family, then the question of whether it crossed a line becomes a bit clearer, doesn't it? It didn't cross the line for you, but it did for them, and the impact should be obviously pretty bad for them in light of what we're talking about.
If you know that what you feel didn't cross a line DOES look like crossing a line to other people, and they can rationally explain why many of the comments are not jokes and are far more personal and angry in tone, and that it rationally could and likely does apply to other SHH members who are seeing it right here right now, why would you feel compelled to refuse to admit they have a valid point about a line being crossed in the eyes of other people?
And why feel compelled to so adamantly defend even the worst comments that were not jokes and that were overtly hostile and disrespectful -- by their own definition, since they explicitly STATE lack of respect? Why refuse to acknowledge that it is true that some of these remarks are hurtful to other people who may be reading this, and that it is regretful and a bad thing if fellow SHH members are embarrassed and humiliated and disrespected in that manner? Why have not just an utter lack of sympathy for the man in the story, but for your fellow SHH members?
It's like there's a fear that admitting some of the remarks went too far -- at least in the eyes of other SHH members who are making rational, strong points about why for others the remarks went too far and would be hurtful -- would somehow display "weakness". I suspect it's an unwillingness to admit it because admitting it would make the person appear "guilty" and mean, and nobody wants to really admit that things went too far because it means THEY may have gone too far, and calling out other posters for going too far might open you up to the same accusation.
It's not "weak" to admit you were wrong or insensitive. What's weak is the inability and/or unwillingness to admit error, and more to the point the inability or refusal to express any concern whatsoever that you may have unintentionally been hurtful to other SHH members right here, right now.
I'll say right now that I in fact regret my own comments saying I hope people show disrespect etc toward any of you for your own faults and errors and shortcomings (beyond, that is, your insensitivity and lack of respect and decency toward other people). However much I loath your behavior and think it demonstrates weakness and bullying etc, I don't in fact actually think anyone deserves to be mocked and humiliated for the pain in their lives. So I take back that wish, it was made in anger and honestly in disgust at the behavior here, but I was sinking to your level and wishing you emotional pain when that's not actually how I feel and isn't a reflection of the kind of person I want to be.
And SuperFerret, even though your cousin and aunt aren't here and I don't know either of them, I'd still not choose to make fun of it or say he deserves no respect or sympathy, or that I hate all depressed or emotionally disturbed people, despite the fact it apparently would not cross any lines of taste under your definition. Under mine, it would for a lot of reasons -- most relevantly here, because YOU are here and it's immediate to YOU. Just as some of the comments in this thread are likely relevant to other people reading it.
It seems apparent, though, that nobody who posted jokes and insults and disrespect here is going to admit it or express any regret about it, or say that anyone else crossed a line or should express regret. It says a whole lot about people's character, their opinion of and treatment of and basic human decency toward their fellow SHH members, and how much anybody else should desire to have much interaction with you all. I likely won't post anything else in this thread, which I'm sure makes you all quite happy. So by all means, resume your expressions of hatred and disrespect and lack of sympathy and mockery of this man's humiliation and death, and of probably some of your fellow SHH members as well. Better I guess that everyone else see clearly into your personalities, than have the misfortune of encountering it elsewhere in a worse way.
