Iron Man 2 Faverau and RDJ not happy with IM2 (Report)

[TheVileOne]

yeah maybe but in the movie ivan was suppose to be the main villian and he didnt do anything after the race track to the final battle. He didnt terrorize stark and keep going after him while he was weak, all he did was build a couple bots for a billionare then make his own suit and fight for 3 minutes then die. so in the end what did he do in this movie? he might have been the most least used main villian ever, I understand how hammer might have been in the comics but that whole funding thing didnt translate well because its not like hammer tried to kill stark, all he wanted to do was have better guns. It doesnt mesh well when you have 2 villians and neither have common ground, one wants to kill stark six ways to sunday and the other just wants to have better weapons to sell to the government. It would have been better if hammer wanted stark dead and had ivan build him weapons to constantly try to kill him. Like I said nothing seemed well though out in this movie, kinda like john and co didnt fully flesh out these characters and there motives.

Blah blah blah. He had a meeting with Stark after the race car track and then had a phone conversation.

I'm not sure how they realistically could've forced more conversations or confrontations in there.

 

[hatebox]

The original article definitely sounds like conjecture, but at the same time it's not difficult to believe. I doubt Favreau was exactly happy at having to shoehorn in the Avengers scenes to his film, though I do think that the negative impact those moments have on the story may have been a little exaggerated by some.

 

[marvelman2006]

Blah blah blah. He had a meeting with Stark after the race car track and then had a phone conversation.

I'm not sure how they realistically could've forced more conversations or confrontations in there.

oh I dont know maybe go off the fact that his character is obssessed with killing stark so then make it a relentless pursuit in trying to do that. all he does is build a suit in the opening credits then have a 5 minute track fight then a 2 minute chat then a 1 minute call and bam the final fight. do you not see how that doesnt add up well? so a quick meeting and phone call are enough for you to have from the "main villian"? Im sorry but you seem really easy to please when it comes to movies. I bet you liked jennifers body didnt you?

 

[MadVillainy]

I agree with you Marvelman,
but you dont have to say "I bet you liked Jennifer's Body" and "you seem really easy to please when it comes to movies". Its just gonna turn a civil argument bad

 

[Iron_Stark]

yeah maybe but in the movie ivan was suppose to be the main villian and he didnt do anything after the race track to the final battle. He didnt terrorize stark and keep going after him while he was weak, all he did was build a couple bots for a billionare then make his own suit and fight for 3 minutes then die. so in the end what did he do in this movie? he might have been the most least used main villian ever, I understand how hammer might have been in the comics but that whole funding thing didnt translate well because its not like hammer tried to kill stark, all he wanted to do was have better guns. It doesnt mesh well when you have 2 villians and neither have common ground, one wants to kill stark six ways to sunday and the other just wants to have better weapons to sell to the government. It would have been better if hammer wanted stark dead and had ivan build him weapons to constantly try to kill him. Like I said nothing seemed well though out in this movie, kinda like john and co didnt fully flesh out these characters and there motives.

1. Paragraphs are your friend

2. He was NEVER intended to be the main villain. Even before Rourke was cast it was known all they were looking for was a henchman with the casting description that read "Big Russian with an MMA build".

This is Hammer's origin, all he wanted to to was one up Tony, who's to say he won't want to kill Stark and Pepper in future movies.

The characters were fleshed out enough, what more do you freaking want, a back story on how their parents conceived them?

 

[TheVileOne]

I didn't like Jennifer's Body so in the words of Clint Eastwood you can shut your face.

So he's obsessed with Stark. He spent the whole prologue and opening credits sequence working to create something to destroy him. He attacks and embarrasses Stark and then has an ominous meeting with him in prison. He then creates an army of drones to destroy Stark and calls him and taunts him that he's going to destroy his legacy. And then he fights both Stark and Rhodey in his new armor.

All this *****ing is lame considering in the beloved first movie, Iron Monger and Iron Man only actually fought ONCE!

 

[hatebox]

In an origin movie it's probably accepted that the villains may not feature quite so heavily.

Regardless of IM2's content, the marketing was criticized by some commentators for not effectively establishing enough of an antagonist in the movie.

 

[marvelman2006]

1. Paragraphs are your friend

2. He was NEVER intended to be the main villain. Even before Rourke was cast it was known all they were looking for was a henchman with the casting description that read "Big Russian with an MMA build".

This is Hammer's origin, all he wanted to to was one up Tony, who's to say he won't want to kill Stark and Pepper in future movies.

The characters were fleshed out enough, what more do you freaking want, a back story on how their parents conceived them?

really? I never read a bunch of spoilers at all nor am I saying you do ethier but the marketing, trailers etc all showed whiplash as the main villian. "come to burger king and try the whiplash whopper", "come to 7 eleven and get you orange whiplash slurpee".

Im saying though he was marketed as the main villian in ironman 2 and they didnt deliver on that contrary to what many will defend. If your going to go that route of marketing whiplash to be the main guy then make it that, dont shoe horn another guy in and make him do all the sutff that whiplash could of done.


No I dont expect to see how they were born but by no means were these chracters fully fleshed out. now the approach Im going to lay out is someone who has not read a single comic but likes the movies.


Nick fury - who is he and what does he do at shield? (never answered)

Shield - we still dont know what they do after two movies

Black widow - what did she really do in this movie? no backstory given. you could of taken her out of the movie and it wouldnt have changed a thing.

Justin hammer - what was his motivation? government contracts? stark dead? no backstory ethier given. you see when a character has a motivation for the audience to understand and believe then it makes something called "tension" more believable.

Whiplash - they kinda did a backstory here with his dad and starks dad but the plot hole here is why did they send them back to russia to apply there knowledge to russian technology?

 

[marvelman2006]

I didn't like Jennifer's Body so in the words of Clint Eastwood you can shut your face.

So he's obsessed with Stark. He spent the whole prologue and opening credits sequence working to create something to destroy him. He attacks and embarrasses Stark and then has an ominous meeting with him in prison. He then creates an army of drones to destroy Stark and calls him and taunts him that he's going to destroy his legacy. And then he fights both Stark and Rhodey in his new armor.

All this *****ing is lame considering in the beloved first movie, Iron Monger and Iron Man only actually fought ONCE!

calmn down big man.


yeah but in the first movie there was an underlying tension boiling between stane and stark so it ultimately led to a show down and that is the formula in most origin stories.


the thing that the first movie had was a little thing called a "story" and straight idea of what they wanted to do. In Ironman 2 it was just all over the place and they tried to put too much stuff in at once like the hammer subplot, black widow subplot, whiplash subplot, stark dying subplot, pepper love story subplot, avengers subplot, government trying to take the suit subplot, new arc reactor subplot, war machine subplot and drunk subplot. you see that right there is way too much going on at once to be able to have a consistent clear story. Its the spiderman 3 syndrome essentially.

 

[Chris B]

yeah but in the first movie there was an underlying tension boiling between stane and stark so it ultimately led to a show down and that is the formula in most origin stories.

Maybe a better way to go would've Hammer not faking Vanko's death and Stark knowing that he was still out there, wondering if and when he was going to strike again.

 

[Iron_Stark]

really? I never read a bunch of spoilers at all nor am I saying you do ethier but the marketing, trailers etc all showed whiplash as the main villian. "come to burger king and try the whiplash whopper", "come to 7 eleven and get you orange whiplash slurpee".

Im saying though he was marketed as the main villian in ironman 2 and they didnt deliver on that contrary to what many will defend. If your going to go that route of marketing whiplash to be the main guy then make it that, dont shoe horn another guy in and make him do all the sutff that whiplash could of done.


No I dont expect to see how they were born but by no means were these chracters fully fleshed out. now the approach Im going to lay out is someone who has not read a single comic but likes the movies.


Nick fury - who is he and what does he do at shield? (never answered)

Shield - we still dont know what they do after two movies

Black widow - what did she really do in this movie? no backstory given. you could of taken her out of the movie and it wouldnt have changed a thing.

Justin hammer - what was his motivation? government contracts? stark dead? no backstory ethier given. you see when a character has a motivation for the audience to understand and believe then it makes something called "tension" more believable.

Whiplash - they kinda did a backstory here with his dad and starks dad but the plot hole here is why did they send them back to russia to apply there knowledge to russian technology?

First of all, Jon Favreau isn't responsible who gets put in a Whopper or a Slurpee.

Second, it's easier to sell a Whopper with Whiplash on it rather than a guy in a business suit.

Maybe you should pay more attention to the movies and not look for stuff to nit pick.

Nick Fury - at the end of the first movie he said "I'm Nick Fury, Director if SHIELD, I'm here to talk to you about the Avenger Initiative."

SHIELD - Pepper and Coulson had this convo

Coulson: I'm agent Phil Coulson, with the Strategic Homeland Intervention Enforcement and Logistics Division
(now if you didn't already realize he was part of the Government especially when he said Homeland Intervention he then said this)

Pepper: You know we've been approached by the DOD, the FBI, the CIA...

Coulson: We're a separate division, with a more specific focus.

Seems to me like you need things spoon fed to you, how many movies have gone into great detail about what those divisions do? Did people need a 15 minute explanation in Mission Impossible about the CIA? NO, you know why because most people are smart enough to understand what the CIA is and what they do.

Black widow - She was put there by Nick Fury to spy on him. If she wasn't there she would've never told Fury about Stark's condition and Stark would've never gotten his dad's case. She was also responsible for getting control of War Machine.

Justin hammer - pretty obvious, he wanted to take Stark's place as the military's top go to guy. Did people need a back story on where Eddie Brock came from and why he wanted to take Parker's job? Did anyone need a back story on where Dent came from and why he became the new DA? Did people need a back story on where Stryker came from in X2? And Stryker was really the main villain in X2, why didn't he get his own Slurpee cup, while the others did?

Whiplash - Kinda did a backstory? gtfo, he had the most back story out of most of the other people. Why did they get sent to Russia? His dad got caught trying to sell technology illegally got sent to Siberia.

These movies need to be like pop up video for some people, someone shows up and next to them a bubble with text in it should appear explaining who they are.

 

[TheVileOne]

Its pretty obvious what Hammer was. He's diet Stark. He's Tony's inferior rival. Every indication is made in the movie that he also has a Napoleon complex as well and also massively insecure. Look at the spray-on tan he had.

 

[marvelman2006]

First of all, Jon Favreau isn't responsible who gets put in a Whopper or a Slurpee.

Second, it's easier to sell a Whopper with Whiplash on it rather than a guy in a business suit..

no but favreau has an influence on how the trailer comes together. whiplash was shown as a main villian doing what main villians do. I can go to 10 people who saw the preview then the movie and 9 out of 10 will tell you that they thought he was suppose to be the main villian because of..... you guessed it the marketing.

Maybe you should pay more attention to the movies and not look for stuff to nit pick..

isnt that why Im nitpicking because the movie was so all over the place that I noticed stuff I normally wouldnt.

Nick Fury - at the end of the first movie he said "I'm Nick Fury, Director if SHIELD, I'm here to talk to you about the Avenger Initiative."

ok like I said originally Im coming from the angle of I never read the comics so I ask again what does he direct and what are the avengers?

SHIELD - Pepper and Coulson had this convo

Coulson: I'm agent Phil Coulson, with the Strategic Homeland Intervention Enforcement and Logistics Division
(now if you didn't already realize he was part of the Government especially when he said Homeland Intervention he then said this)

Pepper: You know we've been approached by the DOD, the FBI, the CIA...

Coulson: We're a separate division, with a more specific focus.

Seems to me like you need things spoon fed to you, how many movies have gone into great detail about what those divisions do? Did people need a 15 minute explanation in Mission Impossible about the CIA? NO, you know why because most people are smart enough to understand what the CIA is and what they do..

you cant compare real life government agencies to make believe fantasy ones so again what does shield do?


No I dont need things spoon fed to me just alittle explaination. like I said earlier I can go up to 9 out of 10 people who have never read the comics and based off 2 movies now they still wouldnt know what shield is or does. its just the honest truth, sure they said there fool name but in the end again what do they do or in your words what "Homeland Intervention" do they deal with?

Black widow - She was put there by Nick Fury to spy on him. If she wasn't there she would've never told Fury about Stark's condition and Stark would've never gotten his dad's case. She was also responsible for getting control of War Machine.

again there was no need for her since we already had coulson the other I dont what you do agents to take care of side missions like this so I ask was she really needed in this movie besides guys to have something to stare at?

Justin hammer - pretty obvious, he wanted to take Stark's place as the military's top go to guy. Did people need a back story on where Eddie Brock came from and why he wanted to take Parker's job? Did anyone need a back story on where Dent came from and why he became the new DA? Did people need a back story on where Stryker came from in X2? And Stryker was really the main villain in X2, why didn't he get his own Slurpee cup, while the others did?.

actually yeah with brock we did because noone really knew his character in spiderman 3 and in turn we ended up given 2 ****tz to wind about him because of a lack of backstory. with dent we didnt to know because the situation and role didnt require it. with stryker we did because the audience needs to know bottom line what in his past made him hate mutants so much. oh he didnt get a cup because we needed hugh jackman on 4 seperate cups

Whiplash - Kinda did a backstory? gtfo, he had the most back story out of most of the other people. Why did they get sent to Russia? His dad got caught trying to sell technology illegally got sent to Siberia.

yeah they kinda did a backstory, so like I said whiplashes dad was a legiment bad person selling secrets commiting treason against the usa and was deported because of that so what does stark have to do with that? Also what did the dads death have to do with stark too? the whole backstory of whiplash and his motivations dont add up. his dad committed treason and face the consiquences for that so why did whiplash want to avenge that? shouldnt the dialogue have been this at the race track:

whiplash: stark Im here to avenge my fathers deportation for committing treason because your dad rightfully reported him.

whiplash: now watch me whip out my laser whips that I could have built years ago but the weak plot of this movie requiered me to wait until my dad died

stark: uh ok? should I put the suit on now?

 

[danoyse]

ctually yeah with brock we did because noone really knew his character in spiderman 3 and in turn we ended up given 2 ****tz to wind about him because of a lack of backstory. with dent we didnt to know because the situation and role didnt require it. with stryker we did because the audience needs to know bottom line what in his past made him hate mutants so much. oh he didnt get a cup because we needed hugh jackman on 4 seperate cups

No, Hugh Jackman was only on 1 slurpee cup for each of the last X-Men Slurpee promos. The other characters were on the other cups. I don't even think they had Slurpee cups for X2.

 

[Chris B]

yeah they kinda did a backstory, so like I said whiplashes dad was a legiment bad person selling secrets commiting treason against the usa and was deported because of that so what does stark have to do with that? Also what did the dads death have to do with stark too? the whole backstory of whiplash and his motivations dont add up. his dad committed treason and face the consiquences for that so why did whiplash want to avenge that? shouldnt the dialogue have been this at the race track:

whiplash: stark Im here to avenge my fathers deportation for committing treason because your dad rightfully reported him.

whiplash: now watch me whip out my laser whips that I could have built years ago but the weak plot of this movie requiered me to wait until my dad died

stark: uh ok? should I put the suit on now?

Here was the situation: Howard Stark and Anton Vanko co-invented the arc reactor technology, but while Howard wanted to use it for humanitarian purposes, Anton wanted to use it for his own personal gain and trys to sell it, so Howard has him deported.

Back in the USSR, Anton is unable to duplicate the tech for the Soviets and he gets sent to a labor camp, bitter and impoverished with Ivan.

 

[Iron_Stark]

no but favreau has an influence on how the trailer comes together. whiplash was shown as a main villian doing what main villians do. I can go to 10 people who saw the preview then the movie and 9 out of 10 will tell you that they thought he was suppose to be the main villian because of..... you guessed it the marketing.

isnt that why Im nitpicking because the movie was so all over the place that I noticed stuff I normally wouldnt.

It's one thing to notice stuff that is really out of whack, what you're doing is finding small idiotic stuff to cry about.

ok like I said originally Im coming from the angle of I never read the comics so I ask again what does he direct and what are the avengers?

you cant compare real life government agencies to make believe fantasy ones so again what does shield do?

No I dont need things spoon fed to me just alittle explaination. like I said earlier I can go up to 9 out of 10 people who have never read the comics and based off 2 movies now they still wouldnt know what shield is or does. its just the honest truth, sure they said there fool name but in the end again what do they do or in your words what "Homeland Intervention" do they deal with?

Yes it's pretty obvious you do need stuff spoon fed to you. How many countless movies have they explained to the audience what the FBI does and what the acronym stands for? Or what the DOD and the CIA are? Because SHIELD got lumped in together with them. And like I said already Coulson said this We're a separate division, with a more specific focus. Now if it's too hard to see what he's saying then I don't know what to tell you.

What does he do and what does he direct? Seriously? How many times did they say Strategic Homeland Intervention Enforcement and Logistics Division? How many times did Coulson get referred to as an agent? Gee, that guy with the eye patch must be Coulson's boss.

Go to those ten people and just say "there fool name" and just by hearing HOMELAND in it and right away they'll say it's part of the government. Infact you don't even need to say the whole name just by saying the acronym has HOMELAND in it and right away anyone older than 10 will know it must have something to do with the government.

again there was no need for her since we already had coulson the other I dont what you do agents to take care of side missions like this so I ask was she really needed in this movie besides guys to have something to stare at?

wtf? That made no sense. You said there was no need for her because there was already Coulson then said there are other agents to to take care of side missions? HELLO, she was another agent taking care of a side mission that involved spying on Tony Stark.

And yes pretty much, she was there for womanizing Tony Stark to stare at.

actually yeah with brock we did because noone really knew his character in spiderman 3 and in turn we ended up given 2 ****tz to wind about him because of a lack of backstory. with dent we didnt to know because the situation and role didnt require it. with stryker we did because the audience needs to know bottom line what in his past made him hate mutants so much. oh he didnt get a cup because we needed hugh jackman on 4 seperate cups

yeah they kinda did a backstory, so like I said whiplashes dad was a legiment bad person selling secrets commiting treason against the usa and was deported because of that so what does stark have to do with that? Also what did the dads death have to do with stark too? the whole backstory of whiplash and his motivations dont add up. his dad committed treason and face the consiquences for that so why did whiplash want to avenge that? shouldnt the dialogue have been this at the race track:

whiplash: stark Im here to avenge my fathers deportation for committing treason because your dad rightfully reported him.

whiplash: now watch me whip out my laser whips that I could have built years ago but the weak plot of this movie requiered me to wait until my dad died

stark: uh ok? should I put the suit on now?

The point I was trying to make about Stryker and the slurpee cups is that it's easier to sell a Gambit(or someone else) cup rather than some guy in a suit, be it military or business.

Seriously, was it that hard for you to comprehend what was going on or do you want to complain just to complain.

I won't even waste my time trying to explain it to you.

 

[marvelman2006]

It's one thing to notice stuff that is really out of whack, what you're doing is finding small idiotic stuff to cry about.




Yes it's pretty obvious you do need stuff spoon fed to you. How many countless movies have they explained to the audience what the FBI does and what the acronym stands for? Or what the DOD and the CIA are? Because SHIELD got lumped in together with them. And like I said already Coulson said this We're a separate division, with a more specific focus. Now if it's too hard to see what he's saying then I don't know what to tell you.

What does he do and what does he direct? Seriously? How many times did they say Strategic Homeland Intervention Enforcement and Logistics Division? How many times did Coulson get referred to as an agent? Gee, that guy with the eye patch must be Coulson's boss.

Go to those ten people and just say "there fool name" and just by hearing HOMELAND in it and right away they'll say it's part of the government. Infact you don't even need to say the whole name just by saying the acronym has HOMELAND in it and right away anyone older than 10 will know it must have something to do with the government.



wtf? That made no sense. You said there was no need for her because there was already Coulson then said there are other agents to to take care of side missions? HELLO, she was another agent taking care of a side mission that involved spying on Tony Stark.

And yes pretty much, she was there for womanizing Tony Stark to stare at.




The point I was trying to make about Stryker and the slurpee cups is that it's easier to sell a Gambit(or someone else) cup rather than some guy in a suit, be it military or business.

Seriously, was it that hard for you to comprehend what was going on or do you want to complain just to complain.

I won't even waste my time trying to explain it to you.

whatever Im done trying to ask valid questions from a non comic book readers side, you guys seem to think everyone should do extensive research before seeing a comic book movie and know each character.
Also to the FBI comment you keep missing my point of comparing real life divisions to make believe fantasy divisions in movies, christ atleast CTU on 24 explained what they did in the very first episode.

I clearly bring up issues from the topic on this thread and your blind love for ironman just makes you look arrogant and a know it all.

 

[marvelman2006]

No, Hugh Jackman was only on 1 slurpee cup for each of the last X-Men Slurpee promos. The other characters were on the other cups. I don't even think they had Slurpee cups for X2.

can we get off the slurpee argument please? It was a side example and people are taking it to the bank in a big way.

 

[danoyse]

whatever Im done trying to ask valid questions from a non comic book readers side, you guys seem to think everyone should do extensive research before seeing a comic book movie and know each character.
Also to the FBI comment you keep missing my point of comparing real life divisions to make believe fantasy divisions in movies, christ atleast CTU on 24 explained what they did in the very first episode.

I clearly bring up issues from the topic on this thread and your blind love for ironman just makes you look arrogant and a know it all.

can we get off the slurpee argument please? It was a side example and people are taking it to the bank in a big way.

Can you please stop having a fit whenever someone disagrees with you? It's getting extremely tiring.

 

[marvelman2006]

Can you please stop having a fit whenever someone disagrees with you? It's getting extremely tiring.

yes maam and fire that warning shot across the room too dude, Im not having a "fit", Im debating valid arguments, quite a big difference. like I said though Im done trying to talk because people in this particular thread are set in there ways and get rick and bitter when someone ask a question they dont know how to answer. You dont see me telling people to "shut your face" just asking questions about a movie .

 

[Iron_Stark]

yes maam and fire that warning shot across the room too dude, Im not having a "fit", Im debating valid arguments, quite a big difference. like I said though Im done trying to talk because people in this particular thread are set in there ways and get rick and bitter when someone ask a question they dont know how to answer. You dont see me telling people to "shut your face" just asking questions about a movie .

wtf? One moment you're calling her ma'am, and then in the same exact sentence proceed to call her a dude?

And those "valid arguments" have been answered plenty of times if you actually paid attention to the movie.

Also to the FBI comment you keep missing my point of comparing real life divisions to make believe fantasy divisions in movies, christ atleast CTU on 24 explained what they did in the very first episode.

And for people like me who've never watched one episode can tell you CTU is fictional branch of the government that deals with terrorism, right? And I'm willing to bet that "T" stands for Terrorism, right?

Regular people don't need a freaking explanation for everything.

 

[marvelman2006]

wtf? One moment you're calling her ma'am, and then in the same exact sentence proceed to call her a dude?

that is what you call humor and being a smarta$#, but anyway Im done lord knows I wouldnt want to get banned from a comic book forum. child please and maybe you should kiss the baby.

 

[danoyse]

yes maam and fire that warning shot across the room too dude, Im not having a "fit", Im debating valid arguments, quite a big difference. like I said though Im done trying to talk because people in this particular thread are set in there ways and get rick and bitter when someone ask a question they dont know how to answer. You dont see me telling people to "shut your face" just asking questions about a movie .

that is what you call humor and being a smarta$#, but anyway Im done lord knows I wouldnt want to get banned from a comic book forum. child please and maybe you should kiss the baby.

See, this is that "having a fit" issue I mentioned earlier. I'm not going to warn you again to settle down.

 

[Zack Snyder]

I think I liked SR more than IM2.

 

[chiefchirpa]

Ok that's your opinion, but IM2 doesn't kill a franchise. IM3 is coming, while they need to reboot Superman.