How important is it for the movie to be faithful?

[The Guard]

As the movie draws near...much has been made of the apparent lack of faithfulness to the source material, and some have speculated that this is not a big deal for whatever reason. I haven't seen much disagreement on that front. In my mind, GI JOE appears to be about as faithful to it's source material as X-MEN, or really about as much as any recent superhero adaption has been. Which is to say, the source mythology is drawn from, but not relied on in any real sense, and not considered sacred. But I do see a lot of key elements that have been retained. From big things like Snake Eyes visual appearance, to little things like Destro's pendant.

I remember when BATMAN BEGINS was in preproduction, fans wanted the black and gray suit, the general trappings of the mythology, and after the movie came out, even though many of the elements were altered or nonexistent, they liked the result. A few major ones:

Altered origin in almost every sense
The Batsuit
Rachel Dawes
Earle as head of Wayne Enterprises
No Talia, Ubu, or Lazarus Pit for Ra's Al Ghul
Scarecrow's costume
Altered nature of "Ducard"
New concept for The Batmobile
Lucious being involved in Bruce's mission

And that's beyond the obvious different meanings story elements had compared to the original mythology, like Ra's training Bruce and Falcone's role and fate, and the visual elements of the actors chosen to portray the characters.

And yet, a lot of fans basically just shut up about those things, and loved the movie for what it was because it was a pretty good flick. In fact, a lot of fans claimed the film bettered the source material in several areas. It seems to me that comic book adaptions often aren't all that faithful, but fans enjoy them and appreciate and accept them nontheless if the film is good enough. I'm just wondering if that's what to expect for GI JOE. Will people embrace the movie if it's a good one, despite obvious changes to the source material?

How important is it to you that GI JOE is faithful to source material elements, and why? Myself, I've pretty much come to terms with the nature of Hollywood adaption, even though I don't like some of the compromises that are made. I look at what's been done with GI JOE and I understand and can appreciate pretty much every change that's been made. I see why they've modernized various elements and gone a bit more high-tech (not much, mind you), and almost every story element utilized has some kind of precedent in the comics and show source material.

At this point, the only sizeable quibble I have in terms of changes is that Snake Eyes and Scarlett has been changed to Ripcord/Scarlett, but even that's a minor quibble, as Snake has clearly been given plenty of faithful elements, as has Scarlett.

So how important, at this point, are things like the following:

-The Joes wearing high tech armor instead of non-armored fatigues and trademark costumes
-The location of The Pit
-Duke not being blonde and a bit younger
-Scarlett and Heavy Duty's nationalities
-Breaker's ethnicity
-Ripcord's race and background
-The Baroness's altered origin and connection to other characters, being American and not having an accent
-Cobra Commander's altered origin, doesn't have his trademark helmet and blue outfit
-GI JOE being a world organization instead of a purely American one

And anything else, for that matter.

 

[CelticPredator]

I care more if the subject is respected. But it depends where they go. For example...Alien puking Predalien queens...is not respectful, or faithful to anything.

 

[LostSon88]

I want the mythology to be respected...doesn't mean it has to be faithful to it.

Batman Begins at its core was not "faithful" to the established canon BUT in the context of Nolan's universe, it all worked.

It took me a while to finally understand that every movie incarnation of a celebrated character/franchise is simply another version of the various interpretations in circulation today.

As long as they don't completely **** on what has been established in the history, I have no problem what they do, so long that it all makes sense in the context of the universe they have created.

 

[terry78]

People griped that Watchmen was TOO faithful. Liberties have to be taken, but to a point. I am not crazy about Duke, Baroness and CC all having known each other at some point, but I guess in the movieverse it makes for dynamics and what not. Everything else, from the character personas to the vehicles/weapons, seems pretty on point.

 

[Doctor Jones]

In terms of faithfulness it's about capturing the spirit of the property. The characters and understanding them come first before the material. But a movie is a movie, you do what works for a film while still retaining elements form the material, it just works onto itself for the story. What happens in the story that will make the changes? And in most cases those changes that compensate for the story have proved to be a good thing.

 

[DemonicFoil]

I think faithfulness is very important because im tired of hollywood screwing up characters like venom, galactus, and deadpool just so they can say "oh hey we know we screwed up so lets make a spin off movie where we can get the characters right and milk more money from the fans". However if the director can make it work like with Iron Man or Watchmen then i'll have no problem with it. Very rarely i will accept huge changes like transformers for example (which did take me a long while to accept), i hated what they did too the character designs and kept saying that it is possible for them to look closer too the G1 designs and still have that realistic presence on the big screen, im not saying megatron should be a gun but if you looked at some other incarnations of that character he still somewhat retained that G1 look in his robot mode. The reason why i end up liking it and loving the second one was (besides being a fan of the franchise for a long time) that i looked at the good side of things and that's finally seeing giant robots on the big screen but i still have hopes for a reboot. So far i have not seen anything too faithful from the G.I.Joe movie except the look of storm shadow and snake eyes, thank god they didn't change those 2 huh,lol, they could of easily altered their suits to the extreme and gave them different colors like green and purple too the point where they look unrecognizable too the source material. I can't imagine how fans would react too that but it does make me realize that most comic book movies have both faithfulness and unfaithfulness going on for them for example a comic book movie can get almost everything right in the story but when it comes down to one or more characters they can stay unfaithful as they can get and that can work the other way around too, everything else in the movie can be unfaithful except for key characters. Don't know if they are saving a more iconic cobra commander design for the sequel but its not just his look of the good ol' commander that's shunning me away from the movie, its just the fact that the film doesn't look or feel like a G.I.Joe movie too me but who knows i might come around too it one day, as for now i hope things look better in the sequel or even a reboot if they choose that route.

 

[dark_b]

i will tell you how i think SHH works a lot of times. when a movie that is not faithful is good ........fans dont care. they dont nitpick so much.

is this a bad thing? i dont think so.

 

[terry78]

You can't be faithful when doing an adaptation of a property that is decades old. There are so many stories and plot twists from over the years all you can do is pick out certain things. In TDK I am still angry that Harvey and Bruce were meeting for the first time because they were supposed to be associates beforehand. But I let it slide.

 

[Nivek]

When they can't even get the look of a easy to translate character like Snake-eyes right, it's enough for me to write it off.

My issue is if you deviate so much from the source material that it's unrecognizable, why bother translating it to begin with?

 

[LightningFlash]

When people ***** over stupid lips on the mask of Snake-Eyes, then you know that the same group of people will ***** over anything.

 

[The Guard]

When they can't even get the look of a easy to translate character like Snake-eyes right, it's enough for me to write it off.

They've come pretty damn close with the visuals of Snake Eyes, especially to his modern look. Closer than most comic adaptions have, that's for sure.

My issue is if you deviate so much from the source material that it's unrecognizable, why bother translating it to begin with?

Because obviously someone felt there were elements worth translating, even if some changes were going to be made.

Unrecognizeable in what sense?

You can't be faithful when doing an adaptation of a property that is decades old. There are so many stories and plot twists from over the years all you can do is pick out certain things.

To a point. Being faithful, to me, doesn't mean putting everything in a mythology onscreen, as much as it means that what's onscreen is faithful to the mythology.

 

[wootbaby]

Is OP serious? This isn't a Batman board so wont harp on that portion, but suffice it to say that basically every item on your list for BB is incorrect.

A partial list of errors starts with the fact that Ubu was Watanabe, Scarecrow's costume is his mask (which was in BOTH movies), Nolan's origin was based literally on Year One and other comics etc

That said, the issue of respect and fidelity to source material is a legit one. Although I dont know why anyone would bring BB as a point of comparison (a movie that had very very few controversies in that respect compared to other recent movies you could pick from)

What you should have been talking about is TINO. Transformers is the movie most akin to the discussion on GI Joe's

The answer in both is that no one gives a ****. If you know anything Transformers was about the toys as was GI Joe. People might recall plots from the comics but very few even casual fans of the franchise can tell you the plot points of the TV series.

As for the accelerator suits. This one is manifest immediately for anyone but the most stupid.. and even for the stupid has been discussed to death. Obviously the reason they're dark and not the colorful combat fatigues is PRECISELY to distinguish the movie IP from the 80s IP and to also create 2 lines of toys for them to promote in the future.

The other **** like the location of the Pit, RU serious? no one cares

The only one that anyone really is going to care about to any serious degree is CC's helmet and nazi uniform.

There's stuff people care about like organic web shooters and things no one cares about... even if it's a serious change like Tony Stark being taken captive by A-rabs in the middle east instead of by charlie. An intelligent person should be able to immediately distinguish what is and what is not important in terms of creative license when adapting a movie

 

[BlackLantern]

i will tell you how i think SHH works a lot of times. when a movie that is not faithful is good ........fans dont care. they dont nitpick so much.

is this a bad thing? i dont think so.

i agree...there are some things that should be as faithful as possible but something like Gi Joe and Transformers have a lot more wiggle room because there is a breadth of source material between animated series and comics

 

[The Guard]

Is OP serious? This isn't a Batman board so wont harp on that portion, but suffice it to say that basically every item on your list for BB is incorrect.

A partial list of errors starts with the fact that Ubu was Watanabe, Scarecrow's costume is his mask (which was in BOTH movies), Nolan's origin was based literally on Year One and other comics etc

While his role has similarities to Ubu (thank goodness), Watanabe was never called "Ubu", therefore you cannot assume that he was.

I will admit that Watanabe filled the role of "some random guy Ra's has around him who can fight", which is not always "Ubu". It was nice to see that.

A Scarecrow mask certainly doesn't resemble an entirely faithful costume.

Nolan's origin story was based rather loosely on YEAR ONE and other comics. It did not draw directly from it in most respects. Even in the context of YEAR ONE, there are all KINDS of changes to the material in the film. From things like Flass's visual appearance to Commissioner Loeb's actual characterization.

Notice, by the way, that I'm not making value judgements on the lack of a costume, or the lack of Ubu, or Talia, etc. I'm simply saying that these things are changes.

That said, the issue of respect and fidelity to source material is a legit one. Although I dont know why anyone would bring BB as a point of comparison (a movie that had very very few controversies in that respect compared to other recent movies you could pick from)

Because BATMAN BEGINS has recently been considered the crown jewel of an initial superhero story. I could do the same with THE DARK KNIGHT, or any recent comic book film, but BATMAN BEGINS serves as well as anything else.

And frankly, I feel BEGINS was the point where fans stop caring about faithfulness as they once did, and started caring more about whether a movie was good or not.

What you should have been talking about is TINO. Transformers is the movie most akin to the discussion on GI Joe's.

I think TRANSFORMERS is a bit more unfaithful to the basics than GI JOE is.

The answer in both is that no one gives a ****. If you know anything Transformers was about the toys as was GI Joe. People might recall plots from the comics but very few even casual fans of the franchise can tell you the plot points of the TV series.

As for the accelerator suits...this one is manifest immediately for anyone but the most stupid. and even for the stupid has been discussed to death. Obviously the reason they're dark and not the colorful combat fatigues is PRECISELY to distinguish the movie IP from the 80s IP and to also create 2 lines of toys for them to promote in the future.

The other **** like the location of the Pit, RU serious? no one cares

The only one that anyone really is going to care about to any serious degree is CC's helmet and nazi uniform.

It'll be interesting to see, when the movie comes out, how much people care about each individual element.

There's stuff people care about like organic web shooters and things no one cares about... even if it's a serious change like Tony Stark being taken captive by A-rabs in the middle east instead of by charlie. An intelligent person should be able to immediately distinguish what is and what is not important in terms of creative license when adapting a movie

Based on what?

Why is a mask or small element like that important but an entire story or mythos point isn't?

 

[zanos]

People need to get some perspective. G.I.Joe was a toyline that they made into a silly cartoon to advertise said toyline. What exactly are fans expecting the movie to be faithful to? The cartoons themselves barely had any plots.

 

[Doright]

It can be a fine line but I don't think anyone really just wants to see the exact same story regurgitated over again.

Movies/remakes and what not need to stick to the same theme and feel of the characters from the original source but I for one enjoy changes that make sense and play to the story.

 

[The Guard]

So no Weather Dominator in the sequel?

 

[BlackLantern]

Pyramid of Darkness

 

[Kokoryu1]

People need to get some perspective. G.I.Joe was a toyline that they made into a silly cartoon to advertise said toyline. What exactly are fans expecting the movie to be faithful to? The cartoons themselves barely had any plots.

The comic book and the cartoon were entirely different. The comic was violent and had actual deaths. There were no magic laser beams that missed their targets at 2 and 1/2 inches. Comic book deaths: Doc, Sneak Peek, ALL of Battleforce 2000, Kwinn the Eskimo, Dr. Mindbender, Quick Kick.... to name a few. Again the comic and the cartoon were entirely different. I understand having to change some things but this is just ridiculous. This Rex character is nowhere near as interesting as the CC from the comics in fact he seem more like an afterthought.

 

[BlackLantern]

The comic book and the cartoon were entirely different. The comic was violent and had actual deaths. There were no magic laser beams that missed their targets at 2 and 1/2 inches. Comic book deaths: Doc, Sneak Peek, ALL of Battleforce 2000, Kwinn the Eskimo, Dr. Mindbender, Quick Kick.... to name a few. Again the comic and the cartoon were entirely different. I understand having to change some things but this is just ridiculous. This Rex character is nowhere near as interesting as the CC from the comics in fact he seem more like an afterthought.

but the comics are but one facet of the source material

 

[Kokoryu1]

but the comics are but one facet of the source material

I agree with you completely. I'm just dissappointed in what I've seen. The comic book was very rich in material. When they totally rewrote CC into the Dr. Rex character I was just disheartened.

Here's some quick back story on CC and the Baroness:

CC was a small businessman, and was constantly struggling to be successful. As things became tougher and debt piled up, Cobra Commander's world was shattered by the death of his big brother, Dan. Dan had been a soldier in the Vietnam war. He kept signing on for new tours in Southeast Asia to be sure his brother, CC, wasn't drafted. When Dan finally returned home, he had changed. Years of war had deeply affected him, and to help others like him, he opened up a halfway house for his fellow soldiers who had come home from war to divorces, bankruptcies and unemployment. All his money went into the venture, but it began to fail, and when the bank was ready to seize his assets, a stoned out vet accidentally burned down the building. The bank blamed him and sued him. A jury found Dan innocent, but a judge overturned the verdict, looking at Dan as a bitter veteran wanting a handout, and the bank took all of his assets. The verdict destroyed Dan, and he began drinking to deal with his pain. Anger, depression and alcholism warped his mind and gave him a death wish. He began driving fast, weaving in and out of traffic on the highway. Dan caused a head-on collision with another car. Dan and the other car's occupants were killed instantly. In that other car was Snake-Eyes' parents and twin sister Terri, on their way to meet Snake-Eyes at the airport. He was returning home from Vietnam.

Dan's death devastated CC. He became obsessed with making someone pay for Dan's death. He turned to vigilantism, punishing criminals, but being sure to take any money they had gained by illicit means. The Commander then sought out Snake-Eyes, who had been angry and despondent since his family's death and spent most of his time drinking and getting into fights. He eventually convinced Snake-Eyes to join him in a mission traveling the country handing out vigilante justice, but he never revealed his true identity or his connection to the car accident. As he seemed to become more interested in keeping criminals' money and using it to buy the loyalty of others, Snake-Eyes grew uncertain about what they were doing and worried about his new friend's growing instability. One night, the pair broke into the home of Judge Mitchell Tate, for reasons unknown to Snake-Eyes. The Commander then revealed that Tate had been the judge who ruined his brother's life, and that his brother had been driving the car that killed his family. He then handed Snake-Eyes a gun and told him to kill the judge. Snake-Eyes refused and turned the gun on the Commander only to learn it was unloaded. He told Snake-Eyes he was afraid he'd be too weak to pull the trigger, then simply killed the judge himself. Snake-Eyes ran off, hoping to never see his "friend" again.

Anastasia Cisarovna A.K.A The Baroness

The Baroness Anastasia was born somewhere in Europe wealthy aristocrats who spoiled her. Her brother, Eugen Decobray, had been part of a humanitarian effort to bring medical supplies to the natives of Vietnam during the Vietnam War. The supplies were to be distributed to the people regardless of their political affiliation. During the Tet offensive, Eugen had been in Saigon and Anastasia, only 15 years old, came along since she was on Christmas break from her boarding school. When they arrived, a warehouse which was supposed to be filled with the supplies was empty. He discovered that his contacts were selling the supplies to buy weapons. When DeCobray found out, the two men shot him dead. At that moment, a young soldier -- Snake-Eyes -- arrived and killed the two men. Anastasia rushed into the room and saw Snake-Eyes there, believing he killed all three men. Taken away before Snake-Eyes was cleared, Anastasia became angry, bitter and disillusioned. She soon became a radical student activist and eventually an international terrorist.

I think that's a pretty damned good story line just modernize it with a new war. No Rex being Dukes BFF and Baroness being CC's sister.

This is the source of my displeasure with this movie, too many changes for no good reason. But like you said just another interpretation/Facet.

 

[Kokoryu1]

At age 18, Snake-Eyes enlisted in the Army and after basic training, he went through Advanced Infantry Training and Ranger School. After finishing his training he came home to tell his family he was being shipped out to South East Asia to the front lines of the Vietnam War. His family hadn't expected him to go so soon. His father, Mark, told him he was worried about the things he would have to go through, but Snake-Eyes explained that he thought that serving the country and making a difference was important. His father asked to to keep his faith, but he thought that he'd need luck to survive. His father wished him luck and added that luck can run out quick, "and the next thing you know... 'Snake-Eyes'. End of the line." The family said their goodbyes, and Terri gave her brother a photo of her for good luck.
In 1968, Snake-Eyes first met Lonzo "Stalker" Wilkinson and Tommy "Storm Shadow" Arashikage. The three soldiers reported to Saigon for a top secret mission. At the time, the Tet offensive was underway and the group's jeep driver was killed by two young Vietnamese men on a motorcycle. Snake-Eyes took off after the men, following them to a warehouse. He arrived just seconds after the men killed Baron Eugen DeCobray, a humanitarian assisting the South Vietnamese. Snake-Eyes shot and killed the two men who were later revealed to be North Vietnamese agents. DeCobray's sister, Anastasia, entered the room, believing the young soldier murdered DeCobray. Anastasia kept on believing the military had killed a good man like her brother, and eventually entered into a career of international terrorism under the name, "Baroness." Snake-Eyes was cleared of all charges when weapons dealer James McCullen Destro XXIII proved he was innocent. Destro was accompanied by his son, James McCullen Destro XXIV.
Snake-Eyes and Tommy served together on their first tour of duty and became close friends. Their tour came to an abrupt end when a bloody battle wiped out the rest of their unit. Three years after their first meeting, Snake-Eyes and Tommy were working with a Long Range Recon Patrol (LRRP) unit commanded by Stalker in the jungles of Vietnam. They were accompanied by three other soldiers: Wade Collins, Ramon Escobedo and Dick Saperstein. Snake-Eyes' quiet demeanor and his disinterest in getting close to another group of soldiers made the others uncomfortable to serve with him. His attitude did eventually soften, due in part to Tommy. Six months into their tour, the group stumbled upon an encampment of North Vietnamese soldiers and a firefight ensued. Collins, Saperstein and Escobedo were all believed killed in the attack. Snake-Eyes, Stalker and Storm Shadow all retreated to a landing zone for rescue. As the three soldiers ran across a field toward the extraction chopper, they were fired upon. Snake-Eyes was hit badly and Stalker ordered Storm Shadow to leave him. Storm Shadow refused, running back to save his friend and to Stalker's amazement, he evaded all enemy fire and retrieved Snake-Eyes.
Snake-Eyes' injuries got him sent back to the United States. When he arrived at the local airport, his parents and sister were nowhere to be found. After hours of waiting, was met by a young army officer named Clayton "Hawk" Abernathy. Hawk told him the tragic news: his parents and sister had been killed in a car wreck just hours before. Devastated, Snake-Eyes wandered aimlessly for months, spending his days drinking and getting into fights. Tommy tracked him down, wanting to help him and offering him a home with his family in Japan. Snake-Eyes rejected his friend's help but soon met up with a man who was willing to indulge Snake-Eyes pain and anger. He eventually convinced Snake-Eyes to join him in a mission traveling the country meting out vigilante justice. Snake-Eyes quickly grew uncertain about what they were doing and worried about his new friend's growing instability. Their partnership was ended when the man led Snake-Eyes to break into the home of a judge, and explained that the judge had ruined his brother's life.

Just thought I'd throw this in for more back story. Can anyone honestly say this isn't at least somewhat intriguing?

 

[BlackLantern]

it worked for the comics, and the comics were for a niche audience...I didnt even know there were Gi Joe comics until their run at Marvel had ended

 

[Kokoryu1]

it worked for the comics, and the comics were for a niche audience...I didnt even know there were Gi Joe comics until their run at Marvel had ended

That's Okay a lot of people didn't know it existed. Even so it was still one of marvles top sellers through the 80's and early 90's. And it was one of the only comics to ever have a tv commercial specifically for the up coming comic book.

 

[BlackLantern]

as for the movies...I think the less known about Snake Eyes, the better