"Intelligence" = Information taken through torture?

[Honey Vibe]

The Bush administration’s continuing reliance on secret CIA prisons violates basic human rights standards, Human Rights Watch said today.

The announcement that Abd al-Hadi al-Iraqi was transferred to the Guantanamo Bay detention facility from CIA custody raises worrying questions about how long he has been detained by the CIA, where he was held, what kind of treatment he endured, and whether other prisoners still remain in CIA detention. The CIA has previously detained numerous detainees for months and even years.

“The CIA’s secret detention of Abd al-Hadi al-Iraqi is a blatant violation of international law,” said Joanne Mariner, terrorism and counterterrorism director at Human Rights Watch. “This transfer shows that Congress will have to act to end the CIA’s illegal detention program.”

By holding people in unacknowledged, incommunicado detention, outside of the protection of the law, the Bush administration has violated the international legal prohibition on enforced disappearance. The CIA’s reliance on enforced disappearance also raises serious concerns about the likelihood of torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment. Notably, numerous detainees previously transferred from CIA custody to Guantanamo have claimed that they were subjected to torture.

Human Rights Watch also criticized the administration for transferring new detainees to the Guantanamo facility. Just one month ago, the Department of Defense announced that it had transferred to Guantanamo a Kenyan citizen, Mohammad Abdul Malik, arrested in Mombassa.

Human Rights Watch today renewed its call to have suspected criminal detainees at Guantanamo transferred to federal courts and prosecuted under US federal criminal law.

“If al-Hadi and other detainees committed the crimes they’re accused of, they should be tried for acts of terrorism in federal court, under a fair and transparent system,” said Mariner.

On September 6, 2006, President George W. Bush publicly revealed the existence of the CIA’s secret detention and interrogation program. Although he stated that, as of that moment, there were no prisoners in CIA custody, he did not promise that the program was closing permanently.

It is believed that more than one al-Qaeda suspect uses the alias of Abd al-Hadi al-Iraqi (or Abdul Hadi al-Iraqi), complicating the job of verifying the date of the present detainee’s arrest. A person with that name was reportedly arrested in January 2002; another person with that name is currently on the FBI’s “Rewards for Justice” list. The person on the FBI’s list, for whom there is a $1 million reward, matches the current detainee in certain particulars (both were born in Mosul, Iraq, and both were members of the Iraqi military).

US officials have told journalists that al-Hadi was arrested in late 2006, meaning that al-Hadi has been in secret CIA custody for at least five months.

As many as 38 other detainees who were believed to have once been held in CIA custody remain unaccounted for as of April 27, 2007 (see list below). Human Rights Watch wrote a letter to President Bush in February 2007, requesting information on the fate of these detainees, but has received no response to date.

It is possible that the president’s statement that the CIA’s prisons were empty in September 2006 was true only in a technical sense, and that in fact prisoners were being held in “proxy detention” – held in another country on behalf of the United States.

“We’re skeptical that President Bush was telling the whole story when he said the CIA prisons were empty,” Mariner said. “It’s quite possible that his claim was based on legal niceties: that while detainees were in the custody of other countries, the CIA had the power to determine their fate.”

Background and List of Detainees

Based on detainee testimony, media articles, and other sources, Human Rights Watch compiled a list of 38 people believed to have been held in CIA prisons and whose current whereabouts are unknown. This list was first published by Human Rights Watch in its February 2007 report, “Ghost Prisoner: Two Years in Secret CIA Detention”.

The list below provides their names, nationalities, and place and date of arrest, where known:

1. Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi (Libyan) (Pakistan, 11/01; Human Rights Watch has received unconfirmed reports that al-Libi was returned to Libya in early 2006)
2. Abd al-Hadi al-Iraqi (presumably Iraqi) (1/02)
3. Anas al-Liby (Libyan) (Khartoum, Sudan, 2/02)
4. Retha al-Tunisi (Tunisian) (Karachi, Pakistan, early- to mid-2002)
5. Sheikh Ahmed Salim (aka Swedan) (Tanzanian) (Kharadar, Pakistan, 7/02)
6. Saif al Islam el Masry (Egyptian) (Pankisi Gorge, Georgia, 9/02)
7. Amin al-Yafia (Yemeni) (Iran, 2002)
8. [] al-Rubaia (Iraqi) (Iran, 2002)
9. Mohammed Omar Abdel-Rahman (aka Asadallah) (Egyptian, son of the “Blind Sheik” Omar Abdel-Rahman) (Quetta, Pakistan, 2/03)
10. Yassir al-Jazeeri (Algerian) (Lahore, Pakistan, 3/03)
11. Suleiman Abdalla Salim (Kenyan) (Mogadishu, Somalia, 3/03)
12. Aafia Siddiqui (Pakistani) (Karachi, Pakistan, 3/03)
13. Marwan al-Adeni (Yemeni) (arrested in approximately 5/03)
14. Jawad al-Bashar (Egyptian) (Vindher, Balochistan, Pakistan, 5/03)
15. Safwan al-Hasham (aka Haffan al-Hasham) (Saudi) (Hyderabad, Pakistan, 5/03)
16. Abu Naseem (Tunisian) (Peshawar, Pakistan, 6/03)
17. Ali Abd al Rahman al Faqasi al Ghamdi (aka Abu Bakr al Azdi) (Saudi) (Medina, Saudi Arabia, 6/03)
18. Hassan Ghul (Pakistani) (northern Iraq, 1/04)
19. Ayoub al-Libi (Libyan) (Peshawar, Pakistan, 1/04)
20. Walid bin Azmi (unknown nationality) (Karachi, Pakistan, 1/04)
21. Ibad Al Yaquti al Sheikh al Sufiyan (Saudi) (Karachi, Pakistan, 1/04)
22. Amir Hussein Abdullah al-Misri (aka Fazal Mohammad Abdullah al-Misri) (Egyptian) (Karachi, Pakistan, 1/04)
23. Khalid al-Zawahiri (Egyptian) (South Waziristan, Pakistan, 2/04)
24. Mohammed al Afghani (Afghan born in Saudi Arabia) (Peshawar, Pakistan, 5/04)
25. Musaab Aruchi (aka al-Baluchi) (Pakistani) (Karachi, Pakistan, 6/04)
26. Abdul Basit (probably Saudi or Yemeni) (arrested before 6/04)
27. Adnan (arrested before 6/04)
28. Hudeifa (arrested before 6/04)
29. Mohammed Naeem Noor Khan (aka Abu Talaha) (Pakistani) (Lahore, Pakistan, 7/04)
30. Qari Saifullah Akhtar (Pakistani) (arrested in the UAE, 8/04)
31. Mustafa Mohamed Fadhil (Kenyan/Egyptian) (eastern Punjab, Pakistan, 8/04)
32. Sharif al-Masri (Egyptian) (Pakistan border, 8/04)
33. Osama Nazir (Pakistani) (Faisalabad, Pakistan, 11/04)
34. Osama bin Yousaf (Pakistani) (Faisalabad, Pakistan, 8/05)
35. Muhammad Setmarian Naser (Syrian/Spanish) (Quetta, Pakistan, 11/05)
36. Unnamed Somali (possibly Shoeab as-Somali)
37. Unnamed Somali (possibly Rethwan as-Somali)
38. Speen Ghul (from Africa) (Pakistan) (unknown capture date)

http://mwcnews.net/content/view/14147/26/

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

Long post,but i know what you mean.Think about it,America has no leads..so they have to resort to tourture to find anything out.Not that its helping,its just the morality of the issue.America..using tourture?

 

[Tyrinus]

Not that I condone it, but there isn't a country in the world that hasn't resorted to torture.

 

[CConn]

Not that I condone it, but there isn't a country in the world that hasn't resorted to torture.

I bet the Canadians have never done it.

 

[Kritish]

Torture isn’t a pretty thing, but it’s a fact of life. Since the moment people have wanted to learn information torture has existed. There’s no reason what so ever to be shocked about this.

 

[Ghostvirus]

Torture is Necassary...

 

[bulok]

Coming from New York all I can say is

**** you

 

[lazur]

I think it's interesting that people who b*tch and whine about torture also fail to acknowledge and thank our government because there hasn't been a single attack since 9/11. As has been stated many times in the past, the American public doesn't get to see all of the attacks that are thwarted by our government on a daily basis. If you did, you'd be crapping yourself regularly.

But hey, keep up the incessant whining as you sit there relaxed in front of your computer, taking for granted how safe you are, or at least how safe you 'feel'.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

I think it's interesting that people who b*tch and whine about torture also fail to acknowledge and thank our government because there hasn't been a single attack since 9/11. As has been stated many times in the past, the American public doesn't get to see all of the attacks that are thwarted by our government on a daily basis. If you did, you'd be crapping yourself regularly.

But hey, keep up the incessant whining as you sit there relaxed in front of your computer, taking for granted how safe you are, or at least how safe you 'feel'.

Okay, and I see how you overlook the fact that the US Goverment has destroyed an entire country in it's pursuit of oil/vengeance.....the war on Iraq has killed more innocent people than 9/11, and ruined the lives of just about every one else in the country. Well done.

 

[lazur]

Okay, and I see how you overlook the fact that the US Goverment has destroyed an entire country in it's pursuit of oil/vengeance.....the war on Iraq has killed more innocent people than 9/11, and ruined the lives of just about every one else in the country. Well done.

I guess it depends on how you look at it. If you disagree with the war in Iraq, you will automatically by default call it 'destroying an entire country' because you refuse to acknowledge *any* good from it, so that argument alone from you holds no merit. Why? Because there's good in everything.

As to your statement that more innocent people have died in Iraq than 9/11, that's very true. But more innocent people died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki than Pearl Harbor, so does that make our involvement in WWII something that you consider to have been unnecessary?

 

[Kevin Roegele]

I guess it depends on how you look at it. If you disagree with the war in Iraq, you will automatically by default call it 'destroying an entire country' because you refuse to acknowledge *any* good from it, so that argument alone from you holds no merit. Why? Because there's good in everything.

But you have to decide whether the good outweighs the bad. I'm going to steal some cash from the bank. The good is that I temporarily have some cash. The bad is that I get arrested and serve a jail sentence, and I've betrayed my morals.

As to your statement that more innocent people have died in Iraq than 9/11, that's very true. But more innocent people died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki than Pearl Harbor, so does that make our involvement in WWII something that you consider to have been unnecessary?

Are you suggesting the only way WWII could have been won was that the US drop a bomb on Hiroshima?

 

[lazur]

But you have to decide whether the good outweighs the bad. I'm going to steal some cash from the bank. The good is that I temporarily have some cash. The bad is that I get arrested and serve a jail sentence, and I've betrayed my morals.

True, but it depends on what you use the money for, no? If you use the money to buy a new sports car, you deserve what you get. But if you use the money for a kidney transplant for a dying child, what do you deserve?

Point being, it's not always as black and white as you seem to believe.

Are you suggesting the only way WWII could have been won was that the US drop a bomb on Hiroshima?

The US was too low on resources to wage a massive offensive against Japan's forces. Whether it was the *only* way, who knows, but it was the most effective and the most efficient in terms of resources spent and American lives saved.

 

[Kritish]

Torture isn’t a black or white subject, once people realize that the world has a hell of a lot more grey in it than we’d like to admit.

 

[CyberFaust]

As to your statement that more innocent people have died in Iraq than 9/11, that's very true. But more innocent people died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki than Pearl Harbor, so does that make our involvement in WWII something that you consider to have been unnecessary?

he's french, that's a unfair question!

 

[Kevin Roegele]

he's french, that's a unfair question!

 

[Abaddon]

torture isn't 100% effective

 

[Victarion]

You gotta do watcha gotta do. Who cares so long as it isn't you being tortured, anyway?

 

[Kritish]

torture isn't 100% effective

Well, nothing's 100% effective.

 

[Abaddon]

yeah, of course, but torture is especially not 100% effective.

 

[The Apocalypse]

I'm sorry but if I was a die hard terrorist and I was just being yelled out and straved thats a walk in a park. If they want to die let them suffer before they do and get as much info you can get. Damn, I might watch to much 24

 

[Blade90]

Bah, who cares? They're scum. They get what's coming to them.

Hell if it means their discomfort just to save our soldiers lives, then fine. They can do whatever they want to them, IMHO.

 

[chamber-music]

depends the kinda of torture. If they do stuff like play britney spears records days on end and sleep deprivation. Physical violence should not be used. There are lots of different ways to torture people.

 

[logansoldcigar]

I think it's interesting that people who b*tch and whine about torture also fail to acknowledge and thank our government because there hasn't been a single attack since 9/11. As has been stated many times in the past, the American public doesn't get to see all of the attacks that are thwarted by our government on a daily basis. If you did, you'd be crapping yourself regularly.

Just to be a wee bit obtuse here, and for the sake of argument,isnt this a bit like the Lisa Simpson "magic stone" argument?

Homer, reporting on the results of Springfield's attempt to rid the town of bears: "There's not a single bear in sight--the 'Bear Patrol' is working like a charm"

"That's specious reasoning," Lisa retorts.

"Thanks, honey," Homer says to her, adoringly.

"According to your logic," she says, picking up a stone from their lawn, "this rock keeps tigers away".

"Hmmm. How does it work?"

"It doesn't."

"How so?" Homer asks further.

"It's just a rock," she says.

"But I don't see a tiger, anywhere."

"Lisa," concludes Homer, while pulling out his wallet, "I want to buy your rock."

or, to put it another way(and obviously we are both making the assumption that torture does take place), "as there has been no terrorist attacks on the USA since we started torturing for intel, torure obviously works". to which the question posed is, how many islamic terror attacks took place in the USA before tortue was used as a way to gain intel. somewhere in the region of 1?
Now, following that on, it seems to have been accepted that one of the reason Bin Laden got pissy with the US was cos of military presence in Holy Islamic sites in Saudi and the middle east ect.(amongst other things). So, can it not be argued that, rather than preventing any major 9/11 style atrocities, its just a case of these things take a fair chunk of time to get properly planned, and it just hasnt happened yet?(it was originally, at least according to the wiki, to have been planned for the year earlier..and that, according to US and Phillipines Govt, planning started 6 years earlier. again, this is according to the Wiki, so it could be crud)

 

[amazingdm]

I can't figure out why all of a sudden everyone is so against torture and why it's soooo wrong. I'm all for torture. Torture those terrorist bastards

 

[amazingdm]

torture isn't 100% effective

sure is 100% fun though