Miranda Rights for Terrorists?

StorminNorman

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Miranda Rights for Terrorists

When 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammad was captured on March 1, 2003, he was not cooperative. “I’ll talk to you guys after I get to New York and see my lawyer,” he said, according to former CIA Director George Tenet.

Of course, KSM did not get a lawyer until months later, after his interrogation was completed, and Tenet says that the information the CIA obtained from him disrupted plots and saved lives. “I believe none of these successes would have happened if we had had to treat KSM like a white-collar criminal – read him his Miranda rights and get him a lawyer who surely would have insisted that his client simply shut up,” Tenet wrote in his memoirs.

If Tenet is right, it’s a good thing KSM was captured before Barack Obama became president. For, the Obama Justice Department has quietly ordered FBI agents to read Miranda rights to high value detainees captured and held at U.S. detention facilities in Afghanistan, according a senior Republican on the House Intelligence Committee. “The administration has decided to change the focus to law enforcement. Here’s the problem. You have foreign fighters who are targeting US troops today – foreign fighters who go to another country to kill Americans. We capture them…and they’re reading them their rights – Mirandizing these foreign fighters,” says Representative Mike Rogers, who recently met with military, intelligence and law enforcement officials on a fact-finding trip to Afghanistan.

Rogers, a former FBI special agent and U.S. Army officer, says the Obama administration has not briefed Congress on the new policy. “I was a little surprised to find it taking place when I showed up because we hadn’t been briefed on it, I didn’t know about it. We’re still trying to get to the bottom of it, but it is clearly a part of this new global justice initiative.”

That effort, which elevates the FBI and other law enforcement agencies and diminishes the role of intelligence and military officials, was described in a May 28 Los Angeles Times article.

The FBI and Justice Department plan to significantly expand their role in global counter-terrorism operations, part of a U.S. policy shift that will replace a CIA-dominated system of clandestine detentions and interrogations with one built around transparent investigations and prosecutions.

Under the "global justice" initiative, which has been in the works for several months, FBI agents will have a central role in overseas counter-terrorism cases. They will expand their questioning of suspects and evidence-gathering to try to ensure that criminal prosecutions are an option, officials familiar with the effort said.

Thanks in part to the popularity of law and order television shows and movies, many Americans are familiar with the Miranda warning – so named because of the landmark 1966 Supreme Court case Miranda vs. Arizona that required police officers and other law enforcement officials to advise suspected criminals of their rights.

You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to speak to an attorney, and to have an attorney present during any questioning. If you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be provided for you at government expense.

A lawyer who has worked on detainee issues for the U.S. government offers this rationale for the Obama administration’s approach. “If the US is mirandizing certain suspects in Afghanistan, they’re likely doing it to ensure that the treatment of the suspect and the collection of information is done in a manner that will ensure the suspect can be prosecuted in a US court at some point in the future.”

But Republicans on Capitol Hill are not happy. “When they mirandize a suspect, the first thing they do is warn them that they have the 'right to remain silent,’” says Representative Pete Hoekstra, the ranking Republican on the House Intelligence Committee. “It would seem the last thing we want is Khalid Sheikh Mohammed or any other al-Qaeda terrorist to remain silent. Our focus should be on preventing the next attack, not giving radical jihadists a new tactic to resist interrogation--lawyering up.”

According to Mike Rogers, that is precisely what some human rights organizations are advising detainees to do. “The International Red Cross, when they go into these detention facilities, has now started telling people – ‘Take the option. You want a lawyer.’”

Rogers adds: “The problem is you take that guy at three in the morning off of a compound right outside of Kabul where he’s building bomb materials to kill US soldiers, and read him his rights by four, and the Red Cross is saying take the lawyer – you have now created quite a confusion amongst the FBI, the CIA and the United States military. And confusion is the last thing you want in a combat zone.”

One thing is clear, though. A detainee who is not talking cannot provide information about future attacks. Had Khalid Sheikh Mohammad had a lawyer, Tenet wrote, “I am confident that we would have obtained none of the information he had in his head about imminent threats against the American people.”

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/06/miranda_rights_for_terrorists.asp
 
Barack Obama on 60 Minutes in March:

Barack Obama said:
Well, there is no doubt that we have not done a particularly effective job in sorting rough who are truly dangerous individuals that we've got to make sure are not a threat to us, who are folks that we just swept up. The whole premise of Guantanamo promoted by Vice President Cheney was that, somehow, the American system of justice was not up to the task of dealing with these terrorists. I fundamentally disagree with that. Now, do these folks deserve miranda rights? Do they deserve to be treated like a shoplifter down the block? Of course not.

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/david/obama-fires-back-cheney-60-minutes
 
All people should be innocent until proven guilty.

The reason: you wouldn't want someone falsely accusing you of terrorism and then imprisoning you based on lies. If someone is obviously a terrorist it should be easy to prove in court.
 
No, no they are not.

You do not have terrorists treated like common criminals. It's outrageous. These are enemy combatants with less legal rights than prisoners of war - can you imagine treating a prisoner of war with miranda rights? No. It's ludicrous.
 
This is stupid...just down right dumb...give em all parachutes and drop them from a C140 somewhere and be done with it.
 
I do not believe that foreign born terrorists should be granted miranda rights in the United States Justice System.
 
No, no they are not.

You do not have terrorists treated like common criminals. It's outrageous. These are enemy combatants with less legal rights than prisoners of war - can you imagine treating a prisoner of war with miranda rights? No. It's ludicrous.

So where was the outrage when these terrorists were tried and convicted in US courts?

Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman, convicted, 1996, U.S. District Court (before then-U.S. District Judge Michael Mukasey) -- plotting terrorist attacks on the U.S. (currently: U.S. prison, Butler, North Carolina);

Zacarias Moussaoui, convicted, 2006, U.S. Federal Court -- conspiracy to commit the 9/11 attacks (currently: U.S. prison, Florence, Colorado);

Richard Reid, convicted, 2003, U.S. Federal Court -- attempting to blow up U.S.-bound jetliner over the Atlantic Ocean (currently: U.S. prison, Florence, Colorado);

Jose Padilla, convicted, 2007, U.S. Federal Court -- conspiracy to commit terrorism (currently: U.S. prison, Florence, Colorado);

Iyman Faris a/k/a/ Mohammad Rauf, convicted, 2003, U.S. Federal Court -- providing material support and resources to Al-Qaeda, conspiracy to commit terrorist acts on behalf of Al Qaeda (currently: U.S. prison, Florence, Colorado);

Masoud Khan, convicted, 2004, U.S. Federal Court -- conspiracy to commit terrorism as part of Lashkar-e-Taiba and Islamic jihad (currently: U.S. prison, Terre Haute, Indiana);

John Walker Lindh, convicted, 2002, U.S. Federal Court -- providing material support to the Taliban (currently: U.S. prison, Florence, Colorado).

Besides, we already have in US prisons those responsible for the first attack on the World Trade Center back in 1993. They were tried and convicted in US courts. There wasn't any outrage over that.

But go ahead and have selective outrage
 
It depends on the information that proves that a person is a terrorist (Concrete, caught in middle of attack, many many reports, or just 'hearsay'). And it also depends if everyone is going to use a definitive definition of terrorist with no way to alter it to include "people you just don't agree with".
 
So where was the outrage when these terrorists were tried and convicted in US courts?

Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman, convicted, 1996, U.S. District Court (before then-U.S. District Judge Michael Mukasey) -- plotting terrorist attacks on the U.S. (currently: U.S. prison, Butler, North Carolina);

Zacarias Moussaoui, convicted, 2006, U.S. Federal Court -- conspiracy to commit the 9/11 attacks (currently: U.S. prison, Florence, Colorado);

Richard Reid, convicted, 2003, U.S. Federal Court -- attempting to blow up U.S.-bound jetliner over the Atlantic Ocean (currently: U.S. prison, Florence, Colorado);

Jose Padilla, convicted, 2007, U.S. Federal Court -- conspiracy to commit terrorism (currently: U.S. prison, Florence, Colorado);

Iyman Faris a/k/a/ Mohammad Rauf, convicted, 2003, U.S. Federal Court -- providing material support and resources to Al-Qaeda, conspiracy to commit terrorist acts on behalf of Al Qaeda (currently: U.S. prison, Florence, Colorado);

Masoud Khan, convicted, 2004, U.S. Federal Court -- conspiracy to commit terrorism as part of Lashkar-e-Taiba and Islamic jihad (currently: U.S. prison, Terre Haute, Indiana);

John Walker Lindh, convicted, 2002, U.S. Federal Court -- providing material support to the Taliban (currently: U.S. prison, Florence, Colorado).

Besides, we already have in US prisons those responsible for the first attack on the World Trade Center back in 1993. They were tried and convicted in US courts. There wasn't any outrage over that.

But go ahead and have selective outrage

I believe all of those were found inside America and tried inside America. Taking terrorists from overseas, in a war zone, and taking them into America is an entirely different situation.
 
Question: how do we know everyone who is accused of being a terrorist, is actually a terrorist? Now there are clear cases of some of these people being terrorists, but is that case every time?

Example: if a farmer was victim of a Taliban press gang and forced to fight the American troops, is he a terrorist?
 
Perfect certainty is impossible to achieve in war.

Perfect is the enemy of success.
 
So the ends justify the means?

I've never agreed with that notion. If the means are just to begin with, then justifying them isn't necessary. It's always when the means aren't just that some never stop trying to justify them.
 
Within reason.

We killed a bunch of innocent people in World War II, the war was the right thing to do.
 
It's not like the US had a choice with the war, nor did we start it
 
"Perfect is the enemy of success"

So we should stop striving for a more perfect union?

America has moral authority because we don't take the low road even if that means fighting the bad guys with one hand tied behind our back. The closer we become to our enemies the harder it will be to tell apart the good guys from the bad guys. This is just what the Islamic terrorist want.
 
It's not like the US had a choice with the war, nor did we start it

America always has a choice. Even before we got involved militarily, we were funding the war - funding weapons used to kill innocent people.

The fact is that war is messy. That war is terrible. That good people die wrong deaths in war. But war is necessary to combat your enemies, enemies that want to destroy freedom and this country.

If a handful of innocent people end up jailed unjustly, so be it. In war there is always collateral damage.
 
"Perfect is the enemy of success"

So we should stop striving for a more perfect union?

America has moral authority because we don't take the low road even if that means fighting the bad guys with one hand tied behind our back. The closer we become to our enemies the harder it will be to tell apart the good guys from the bad guys. This is just what the Islamic terrorist want.

You strive to be the best you can be, you don't refuse to do something because you can't be perfect.

America has the moral authority because we are morally superior. We don't behead journalists, we do not target innocents, we fight for freedom and equal rights. This does not make us morally equivalent. Not at all.

If you think the Islamic terrorists would rather have us imprisoning the occasional innocent bystander more than treating their members like domestic criminals in our justice system, you are delusional.
 
Within reason.

We killed a bunch of innocent people in World War II, the war was the right thing to do.
This doesn't automatically green light every morally bankrupt thing America can do in times of war.

Keeping our moral authority should be the highest priority.
 
This doesn't automatically green light every morally objective thing America can do in times of war.

Keeping our moral authority should be the highest priority.

This does not endanger our moral authority. Period.

Trying to compare the morals of America, the morals of Bush to that of Al Queda makes you an idiot, not a champion of human rights.
 
You strive to be the best you can be, you don't refuse to do something because you can't be perfect.
You do refuse to do something if it's wrong and degenerate like ignoring the possibility a presumed terrorist/criminal could be innocent.

America has the moral authority because we are morally superior. We don't behead journalists, we do not target innocents, we fight for freedom and equal rights. This does not make us morally equivalent. Not at all.
You can add "we don't torture and we don't presume guilt without trail". The longer the list of morally superior behavior the better for America and her allies in the long run. Your great grand children will thank you for it. The same way we're proud our WW2 veterans didn't torture or imprison indefinitely without trail.

If you think the Islamic terrorists would rather have us imprisoning the occasional innocent bystander more than treating their members like domestic criminals in our justice system, you are delusional.
Imprisoning/killing the occasional by standard is exactly what the terrorists want. Gitmo and pro-torture government was a great recruitment tool for the Taliban and al-Queda. You would be delusional to think otherwise.
 
You do refuse to do something if it's wrong and degenerate like ignoring the possibility a presumed terrorist/criminal could be innocent.

Who said anything about ignoring the possibility?

You don't ignore the possibility of a bomb killing an innocent person. You don't ignore it, you accept it.

You can add "we don't torture and we don't presume guilt without trail". The longer the list of morally superior behavior the better for America and her allies in the long run. Your great grand children will thank you for it. The same way we're proud our WW2 veterans didn't torture or imprison indefinitely without trail.

I am not proud of WWII vets for not torturing or imprisoning people indefinitely, I am proud that they protected this country. That they protected freedom across the globe. That they defeated evil in their time. That's why I am proud of them.

Just like I am not ashamed of the Dresden, I am not ashamed of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I accept that in the time of war, bad things happen.

Imprisoning/killing the occasional by standard is exactly what the terrorists want. Gitmo and pro-torture government was a great recruitment tool for the Taliban and al-Queda. You would be delusional to think otherwise.

No, what terrorists want is to win. They don't want moral victory, they want true victory. They want their terrorists to be allowed to use American courts as weapons against us, they TRAIN their members to do so.

Getting to the idea that Gitmo and Torture are recruitment tools for terrorist, it's complete ********. No rational person gets so morally offended by Gitmo or torturing Al Queda leaders that they join an organization that TORTURES, BEHEADS and KILLS INNOCENT PEOPLE. That doesn't happen. The people that join Al Queda, that join the Taliban are not rational people, they are extremists, that hate the west because they no know other way.

The idea that those sort of people would be willing to give America a chance if we didn't do these things is laughable, naive and foolish.
 
America always has a choice. Even before we got involved militarily, we were funding the war - funding weapons used to kill innocent people.

The fact is that war is messy. That war is terrible. That good people die wrong deaths in war. But war is necessary to combat your enemies, enemies that want to destroy freedom and this country.

If a handful of innocent people end up jailed unjustly, so be it. In war there is always collateral damage.

Jingoism makes me bored :csad:
 
This does not endanger our moral authority. Period.

Trying to compare the morals of America, the morals of Bush to that of Al Queda makes you an idiot, not a champion of human rights.
The morals of America and the morals of Bush are not the same thing.

The world is bigger than your backyard. We're trying to win the hearts and minds of billions in the Muslim world. That's the smart way to fight terrorism. Not turn the United States into something uglier in the name of fighting the Taliban.

but you can keep name calling as if it gives your argument more credibility rather than make you look immature and childish.
 

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