Is Democracy failing us

It's pointless to debate about Bush stealing the election anyways. Very rarely does anyone change their minds about it anyways :o.
 
Democracy: Two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.

Representative democracy: Two thousand wolves and one thousand sheep electing two wolves and a sheep who vote on what to have for dinner.

Constitutional Republic: Two thousand wolves and one thousand sheep electing two wolves and a sheep who vote on what to have for dinner, but are restricted by a Constitution that says they cannot eat sheep. The Supreme Court then votes 5 wolves to 4 sheep that mutton does not count as sheep.
 
"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything."
-- Josef Stalin


"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists." - J. Edgar Hoover


"The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government of the U.S. since the days of Andrew Jackson."
- Franklin D. Roosevelt


"Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the Field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it."
- Woodrow Wilson, The New Freedom (1913)


"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world. No longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."

- Woodrow Wilson



"The world is governed by people far different from those imagined by the public." - Benjamin Disraeli, Victorian-era Prime Minister of Britain


"The CFR [Council On Foreign Relations, New York City] is the American Branch of a society which originated in England and believes national directives should be obliterated and one-world rule established. I know of the operations of this network because I have studied it for twenty years, and was permitted in the early 1960's to examine its papers and secret records... I believe its role in history is significant enough to be known." --Dr. Carroll Quigley, Professor of International Relations, Georgetown University Foreign Service School, Washington, D.C.


"We shall have world government whether or not we like it. The only question is whether World government will be achieved by conquest or consent." --James Paul Warburg, Chairman of the Council on Foreign Relations, 1921 - 1932, before the U.S. Senate, February 17, 1950


"To achieve world government, it is necessary to remove from the minds of men, their individualism, loyalty to family traditions, national patriotism and religious dogmas." -- Brock Chisolm, former Director of the World Health Organization


"The main purpose of the Council on Foreign Relations is promoting the disarmament of US. sovereignty and national independence and submergence into an all powerful, one world government". -- Chester Ward, Rear Admiral and former Navy Judge Advocate 1956 - 1960 and CFR member for 15 years


"The real rulers in Washington are invisible and exercise power from behind the scenes." -- Felix Frankfurter, United States Supreme Court Justice


"In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, it was planned that way." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt


"Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an INvisible government owing NO allegiance and acknowledging NO responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to befoul this unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of today." President Theodore Roosevelt, 1906


"The ruling class has the schools and press under its thumb. This enables it to sway the emotions of the masses."
- Albert Einstein


"Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce."
- James A. Garfield
 
The democracy is the best political sistem. Neverthless, US's democracy sucks. It's decadent. That's true. But also there are other democratic countries where you don't vote only each five years but you are also consulted by the government for every escencial matter of the nation. That's a real democracy.
 
"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country."

Well, at least he admitted it. :csad:
 
I don't think democarcy is failing us; I think the uneducated voters are enabling us.
 
Gonking said:
The democracy is the best political sistem. Neverthless, US's democracy sucks. It's decadent. That's true. But also there are other democratic countries where you don't vote only each five years but you are also consulted by the government for every escencial matter of the nation. That's a real democracy.
Click to expand...



and who decides what matters are "essential"?


posters reading this thread might be interested in picking up this book, its' very good


http://www.amazon.com/Democracy-Eco..._bbs_sr_1/002-2992877-7576064?ie=UTF8&s=books
 
Gonking said:
The democracy is the best political sistem. Neverthless, US's democracy sucks. It's decadent. That's true. But also there are other democratic countries where you don't vote only each five years but you are also consulted by the government for every escencial matter of the nation. That's a real democracy.
Click to expand...

Democracy in the United States does not suck. It's not perfect and could use some changes, but it doesn't suck.
 
hippie_hunter said:
It's not perfect and could use some changes
Click to expand...
That's the point. US democracy need changes since years ago. But it is your fault too. Not only politicians, you have to demand those changes, protest for them. but you people don't do anything.
 
Gonking said:
That's the point. US democracy need changes since years ago. But it is your fault too. Not only politicians, you have to demand those changes, protest for them. but you people don't do anything.
Click to expand...

Woah, woah, woah. Don't put me in this group not demanding change. First of all, I only became legal to participate in the political process last year. Second, the political process is very slow to do something very dramatic. It is going to take time and patience to start and develop a movement to get something going and get it significant enough so that our Congressmen and women to listen to us.
 
Palps_Senate.JPG
 
Wilhelm-Scream said:
1) America is not a democracy
2) The people did not elect George W. Bush.
3) You can call it "democracy", but if you are using fear to coerce voters, it is not "democracy". Therefore you can't suggest that democracy failed there, because they weren't practicing it.
4) That "something more" you want is.....THE ANTI-CHRIST! :eek:
Click to expand...
couldn't ev said it better myself
 
JStorm said:
I don't think democarcy is failing us; I think the uneducated voters are enabling us.
Click to expand...
I think this is a large part of the problem. People say the Government needs to make everyone aware and involved with what they are doing...and the truth is they do, in fact they have to. It's real easy to find out what is going through Congress today, just pick up a paper. And it's not like things like say the Iraq War weren't and aren't televised, reported, and information wasn't available. It was. People choose to not get involved, and not voice their disapproval...in fact most who spoke voiced support.

I think the real telling signs come from things like more people voting for American Idol than their local and state politicians (and even Presidents). People will claim "business" or "industry" runs the country. But that wasn't always the case. Twenty years ago before all this entertainment interest groups of voters controlled things. Why, because maybe they did not become so needlessly distracted with pithy things like American Idol back then and actually exercised there rights since they had (and still do have) a stake in the country.

Now a days people don't feel that way, and often a response is to concoct theories about the big scary Government controlling everything so you can pass the buck of responsibility onto someone else (another favorite passtime of Americans these days). If the Government truly controlled everything...we'd get a lot more done. Wilhelm may think posting random quotes is a way of making a point...it isn't...but one of his intellectuals up there, Woodrow Wilson also said his "job would be much easier if this were a dictatorship". He understood how hard it was to pass things through consensus. And that's a problem we still have. The problem we don't have anymore is that the people do not voice their opinions in droves like they used to...or when they do they rely far to heavily on cues to decide candidates rather than a rationale assessment of their skills.
 
Democracy is failing us, because our democratic process is severely outdated. We have had the technology for decades to allow each citizen to speak for themselves; representatives are no longer necessary for speedy process. Yet we cling religiously to our "way of doing things", instead of to our founding philosophy: government for the people, by the people.

The apparatus for that can take any form, but it needs to stay updated and dynamic. If not, all sorts of political infection crop up over time, such as routed votes, sensationalism, and marginalized voters. ...They are all unnecessary, with the advances available.
 
Honey Vibe said:
Democracy is failing us, because our democratic process is severely outdated. We have had the technology for decades to allow each citizen to speak for themselves; representatives are no longer necessary for speedy process. Yet we cling religiously to our "way of doing things", instead of to our founding philosophy: government for the people, by the people.

The apparatus for that can take any form, but it needs to stay updated and dynamic. If not, all sorts of political infection crop up over time, such as routed votes, sensationalism, and marginalized voters. ...They are all unnecessary, with the advances available.
Click to expand...
No trust me, representatives are fine. They aren't there for speedy process, they are there because (just like in Parliamentary systems...or any other Democracy) you need people to make the laws. Citizen's shouldn't make laws, that would be bad...nor would anyone have enough time to get everyone together on every issue that came up. Imagine if you had to vote on new copyright and business laws every night...

Now the Electoral College is probably outdated, although some think it has it's strong points.
 
ShadowBoxing said:
No trust me, representatives are fine. They aren't there for speedy process, they are there because (just like in Parliamentary systems...or any other Democracy) you need people to make the laws. Citizen's shouldn't make laws, that would be bad...nor would anyone have enough time to get everyone together on every issue that came up. Imagine if you had to vote on new copyright and business laws every night...

Now the Electoral College is probably outdated, although some think it has it's strong points.
Click to expand...
Representatives are needed "because you need people to make the laws"? This country is an experiment that was borne in a time when monarchies were thought indispensable, for all the flaws it held. That people could rule themselves, is an idea that no longer needs to be held up by faith alone; we have proven it a working reality that does not end in total apocalypse.

Citizens are not even hassled to vote for their president; you will not be hassled to vote on issues where you have no interest. But if I do have an interest in copyright laws in my state, I want the issue to pass through my direct democratic power and not assume some guy who I need -- because, you know, I need people to decide for me -- has my interests in mind.
 
ShadowBoxing said:
I think this is a large part of the problem. People say the Government needs to make everyone aware and involved with what they are doing...and the truth is they do, in fact they have to. It's real easy to find out what is going through Congress today, just pick up a paper. And it's not like things like say the Iraq War weren't and aren't televised, reported, and information wasn't available. It was. People choose to not get involved, and not voice their disapproval...in fact most who spoke voiced support.

I think the real telling signs come from things like more people voting for American Idol than their local and state politicians (and even Presidents). People will claim "business" or "industry" runs the country. But that wasn't always the case. Twenty years ago before all this entertainment interest groups of voters controlled things. Why, because maybe they did not become so needlessly distracted with pithy things like American Idol back then and actually exercised there rights since they had (and still do have) a stake in the country.

Now a days people don't feel that way, and often a response is to concoct theories about the big scary Government controlling everything so you can pass the buck of responsibility onto someone else (another favorite passtime of Americans these days). If the Government truly controlled everything...we'd get a lot more done. Wilhelm may think posting random quotes is a way of making a point...it isn't...but one of his intellectuals up there, Woodrow Wilson also said his "job would be much easier if this were a dictatorship". He understood how hard it was to pass things through consensus. And that's a problem we still have. The problem we don't have anymore is that the people do not voice their opinions in droves like they used to...or when they do they rely far to heavily on cues to decide candidates rather than a rationale assessment of their skills.
Click to expand...

Shadow, I want government out of my pocket and allow me to take responsiblitiy for myself.

Government is not responsible for that. We are. GW didn't appear on office. Barak Obama didn't teleport here the other day. We have a duty, and rights, and the uneducated, who refure to listen to reason vote in crazies like GW.

I believe in God. I believe in Christ. But that does not mean I believe in GW. For some, that is the only reason the believe in GW. THAT IS INSANE.

If they vote on the educated idea of GW being the Almighty's right hand, that is insane and "uneducated." Hence the idea of my first post.
 
I would rather have Cobra Commander as president than Dubya.

COBRA 2008.




Sorry, justed watched the G.I. Joe movie intro on Youtube.

:dry:
 
Honey Vibe said:
Democracy is failing us, because our democratic process is severely outdated. We have had the technology for decades to allow each citizen to speak for themselves; representatives are no longer necessary for speedy process. Yet we cling religiously to our "way of doing things", instead of to our founding philosophy: government for the people, by the people.

The apparatus for that can take any form, but it needs to stay updated and dynamic. If not, all sorts of political infection crop up over time, such as routed votes, sensationalism, and marginalized voters. ...They are all unnecessary, with the advances available.
Click to expand...

You really think the internet should be used to make public policy? :whatever:
 
"Many forms of government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

-Sir Winston Churchill
 
Wilhelm-Scream said:
These days, if you don't believe in nefarious conspiracy theory you're the crackpot. :o
Click to expand...

Actually - I think the most secure evidence of Bush not being behind 9-11 (as a way to get at Iraq) is the fact we never found WMD's in Iraq.

Come on - if Bush and Co. is willing to kill thousands to gain political power, why would they NOT plan evidence? The lack of WMD's was a huge blow to their credibility and thus power.
 
Americans are currently experiencing the downside of Democracy.You can pick a President,but sometimes that President is not that good.But there is a way to change it,its called impeachment.
 
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