Manning Convicted of Biggest Breach of US Classified Data in US History

[Tanin]

Unfortunately the scientific definition of ones gender is described by their sexual organs, not what society deems fit or one feels they are.

I have no problem calling him a her to be polite and respect their wishes. But unless a sex change procedure is done, she's male.

http://www.who.int/gender/whatisgender/en/

 

[Thundercrack85]

Well, it'll be interesting to see how the army handles this, if nothing else. It is kind of funny to the see the media tripping over itself on what to call him.

Though if this is his attempt to get out men's prison, it could backfire.

 

[NickNitro]

I corrected myself Tanin and realized I made a mistake.

 

[Tanin]

Beating a dead horse.... bah I just posted an actual health link just for clarification.
I'm not SentinelMind. ^_^

 

[NickNitro]

I don't care much for your facts sir! I just blast out whatever comes to mind without justification

 

[Thundercrack85]

You can't really tell me you believe taking hormones and having surgeries can turn a man into an actual woman.

I admit I have trouble grasping this concept.

 

[Doctor Evo]

You can't really tell me you believe taking hormones and having surgeries can turn a man into an actual woman.

I admit I have trouble grasping this concept.

That depends upon how you define "actual woman."

The person will still possess a Y-chromosome. Thus, from a genetic perspective, that person will always be male.

On the other hand, if we're just talking about phenotype, then it seems to me that all bets are off. Phenotype can be manipulated and changed as much as technology will allow. The person will lack reproductive capability, but then again, so do many natural-born women, so that criterion in itself seems insufficient. But many other aspects of anatomy and physiology could be made virtually indistinguishable from the "real deal."

 

[Thundercrack85]

Interesting. But doesn't all this assume that gender and sex are entirely separate? Or do the hormones influence that as well?

Obviously men and women think radically different, and the brain structures are also distinct. Or is that changed as well?

 

[Ultimatehero]

Interesting. But doesn't all this assume that gender and sex are entirely separate? Or do the hormones influence that as well?

Obviously men and women think radically different, and the brain structures are also distinct. Or is that changed as well?

Who can really say? All I know is they claim to have been born in the wrong body. So, having not experienced that I'll take their word for it that they are the same and should be treated like they want to be treated. Maybe it's easy for me to really accept others in this term because I am somewhat similar as well. Many want to say bi dudes don't exist and aren't born that way, yet here I am and I didn't choose it. So, who knows what happens or how it happens?

 

[Ultimatehero]

No one has balls anymore. The generations of fighters and protesters are behind us. We are a world filled with iPhones, medication, and internet blogs. We much show sympathy over the internet with "like this if's", then help a women getting mugged on the street. We much rather med our kids instead of being good parents. We'd rather fatten our kids with fast food and spoil them with gifts then tell them they've done poorly, or to eat healthy.

This is a sad, sad world that's been developing the past 10-15 years.

Sadly agree. There are some people who still fight. I fight. Film is my sword. And I have risked my life a couple times to save others, and will readily do so again, but I wouldn't say it's fair to use that since it's more of an instinctual drive than anything else. And I'm absolutely sure I'm not the only one on these boards who wants to fight the good fight. That said, yeah, it is disappointing that this isn't more and that it has declined.

 

[Thundercrack85]

By that logic we should call the guy who thinks he's Napoleon, emperor.

 

[Ultimatehero]

By that logic we should call the guy who thinks he's Napoleon, emperor.

That's nothing like what this is. Someone isn't claiming to be all mighty, they are claiming to be equal and just of an opposite sex. They aren't claiming to be an alien, to be God, to be Jesus, or to be our ruler. They're just saying they've always felt like they were born in the wrong body. And seeing in how this often kicks in for kids even younger that five years old? There is a legitimate claim behind this. And dismissing it, to me, is the exact same as saying gay people chose to be that way.

 

[Tanin]

By that logic we should call the guy who thinks he's Napoleon, emperor.

*shrug* It worked out well for Joshua Abraham Norton.

 

[Thundercrack85]

That's nothing like what this is. Someone isn't claiming to be all mighty, they are claiming to be equal and just of an opposite sex. They aren't claiming to be an alien, to be God, to be Jesus, or to be our ruler. They're just saying they've always felt like they were born in the wrong body. And seeing in how this often kicks in for kids even younger that five years old? There is a legitimate claim behind this. And dismissing it, to me, is the exact same as saying gay people chose to be that way.

The point was thinking you are something, doesn't mean you are. At five years old what does gender even amount to? This just seems counterproductive to the notion that gender roles and the associated femininity and masclulinity are superficial social constructs. I'm not sure how you reconcile those two.

Though really, if he wants a sex change, that's his business, just don't expect me to start calling him "her".

 

[Thundercrack85]

*shrug* It worked out well for Joshua Abraham Norton.

I admit I might be somewhat of a killjoy by not playing along.

 

[Ultimatehero]

The point was thinking you are something, doesn't mean you are. At five years old what does gender even amount to? This just seems counterproductive to the notion that gender roles and the associated femininity and masclulinity are superficial social constructs. I'm not sure how you reconcile those two.

Though really, if he wants a sex change, that's his business, just don't expect me to start calling him "her".

Just like there are people who disrespect bi people, there are people who disrespect all letters in LGBT. So it's not a revolutionary comment, just a prejudiced one which hey sadly those prejudice beliefs still exist.

 

[Alex_Spider]

With all this talk about the guy's gender, I am afraid the media and the people in general will generate useless discussions about "is he or she?" and all that, instead of focusing on the ramifications of his actions and his controversial prosecution and trial after on.

 

[KevanG]

We know the media will just ignore the blatant attempt to distract the issue and focus the spotlight on something else in order to generate more controversy so that his case will remain in the forefront and he may be able to wiggle out some way.

Spoiler

Ah, who am I kidding? They'll be screaming about "he or she" until the cows come home not even giving a tiny bit of focus on the real issues.

 

[The Question]

Though if this is his attempt to get out men's prison, it could backfire.

That's almost certainly not what's going on here.

First of all, I don't think the federal prison system takes gender identity into account when they send people off to prison. I don't know for certain but I doubt the American corrections system is that enlightened.

Second, a federal women's prison isn't any less violent or dangerous than a men's prison, so there really wouldn't be much of a point.

 

[Ultimatehero]

While it takes attention off of one thing it does bring attention (for the first time, that I know of) politically to transgendered. From knowing various LGBT people always heard complaints of being politically invisible from them. So, hopefully focus on both. This could further two issues.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

All whistleblowers are tarred and feathered to hurt their cause nowadays.

But Manning being a transexual? Damn, it's just too easy for right-wingers to play target practice.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

While it takes attention off of one thing it does bring attention (for the first time, that I know of) politically to transgendered. From knowing various LGBT people always heard complaints of being politically invisible from them. So, hopefully focus on both. This could further two issues.

hmm, Lady Gaga tweeted her support the other day.

and come to think of it gays are very politically active. Civil libertarians should welcome their alliance.

We can all watch Days of Future Past together.

 

[Thundercrack85]

That's almost certainly not what's going on here.

First of all, I don't think the federal prison system takes gender identity into account when they send people off to prison. I don't know for certain but I doubt the American corrections system is that enlightened.

Second, a federal women's prison isn't any less violent or dangerous than a men's prison, so there really wouldn't be much of a point.

He's not going to federal prison, he's going to military prison. It's quite different from the former. Less rape, but also less freedom / transparency.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

Well, it'll be interesting to see how the army handles this, if nothing else. It is kind of funny to the see the media tripping over itself on what to call him.

Though if this is his attempt to get out men's prison, it could backfire.

Army has said it doesn't provide the medical treatment needed to do gender reassignment surgeries to active-duty or imprisoned personnel. Only thing they'll provide is psychological counseling for the duration of his prison stay. That's been standard practice for them and likely what will stick.

 

[The Question]

He's not going to federal prison, he's going to military prison. It's quite different from the former. Less rape, but also less freedom / transparency.

Either way, how does it being a men's prison or a women's prison make a difference?