Military Propaganda and Captain Marvel

Eddie Dean

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Even more so then Captain America, I'm a little put off by how gung ho - militaristic the marketing around Captain Marvel has been, most trailers come off more as Air Force recruitment ads then anything else.

While discussing the strides this film might make for female representation, I think it's important that the Pentagon's direct involvement (including script approval) and the other overtly propagandist elements of Captain Marvel are not forgotten.

‘Captain Marvel’ is the latest superhero movie to promote the U.S. military
 
I see your point but her being an Air Force pilot is such a huge part of the character that it was simply inevitable. Though I guess they could've made her an astronaut.

Now if you excuse me, I really feel like joining the military now. Yvan eht nioj.
 
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Having grown up the son of a Vietnam vet and having many family members and friends serve (some as career military), it's not really a big deal to me to see the military propped up a bit and get free publicity. With Carol's history in the USAF being so key to her backstory, it makes sense that Marvel would cater to them a bit to make it seem believable.
 
It's the character

If she wasn't an Air Force pilot, fans would be pissed

and if you want to use real Air Force logos and equipment, you have to go through the Pentagon

But it also involves aliens, and SHIELD, and many elements having nothing to do with the military (even less than Cap) At no point while watching the ads have I been like "damn, the military seems fun Imma go do it"... more like "Damn, I wish I had superpowers and could fly around space"... and that's not a future the military can really offer
 
In general, I don't like the propaganda (like the paid for patriotism in sports)...but in this case, she's an Air Force pilot...it's part of her character. I'm a big believer that these adaptations should maintain the core aspects of the characters...and as someone who rarely read comics with this character in it...all I really know is that she was a pilot who got all screwed up by Rogue's bad touch and ended up dealing with alcoholism and other issues. I don't even think they've gone overboard with it. It makes PERFECT marketing sense to do stuff with the Air Force.

Also, I HATE when movies don't bother to get professionals on board for their projects to make sure stuff is legit. I mean...I might not know that the doctors on tv are doing stuff wrong, but every doctor, nurse etc that is watching DOES see it...and it certainly takes them out of the show for a bit. Same with anything, really. I watched something once and a guy was choking and a character did the Heimlich maneuver, and I...a guy with NO...ZERO...ZILCH...training in first aid...could tell that it was being done wrong, right after the character said "I know the Heimlich maneuver." Um, no you don't. It's IMPORTANT to create a world that feels real for the viewer, even when your lead character can fly through space and shoot blasts with her hands. Air Force folks should be able to watch this movie without being taken out of the reality by poor depictions of what they do.
 
This does raise some interesting issues, though. Like, I'm a fan of Carol and Kamala's relationship, but it's undeniable that a young Pakistani girl idolizing an American soldier is a bit... "problematic".

It's something that even the comics failed to address.
 
This does raise some interesting issues, though. Like, I'm a fan of Carol and Kamala's relationship, but it's undeniable that a young Pakistani girl idolizing an American soldier is a bit... "problematic".

It's something that even the comics failed to address.
I thought that she was an American born to a family that left Pakistan for some reason
 
This does raise some interesting issues, though. Like, I'm a fan of Carol and Kamala's relationship, but it's undeniable that a young Pakistani girl idolizing an American soldier is a bit... "problematic".

It's something that even the comics failed to address.

Kamla is Pakistani-American, it is perfectly reasonable for her to idolize an American soldier considering there are real life Pakistani-Amercians who serve in the US military, and some of them have even won some of the highest awards for valor given by the US government, like the case of Captain Khan:

hsmkhan-gravesite-photo-082005.jpg
 
Eh, that's true. It's still kind of weird, though.

At the beginning of the third Ms. Marvel run, it was heavily implied that the reason Kamala idolized a blonde white woman was because she was unhappy with herself. That's an element that I hope Marvel will use if they ever get to make a Ms. Marvel movie.

I thought that she was an American born to a family that left Pakistan for some reason
Yeah she's Pakistani-American. She was born in the US
 
:loco: This thread. :wall:

Not everything featuring the military in a positive light is 'propaganda'. They wanted access to fighter jets and shooting on bases, so they do a deal with the air force. Like plenty of movies do, that's just basic quid-pro-quo stuff. It just means the forces want to be satisfied they're being portrayed positively - and it's not even that movies have to portray them positively, it's just if you're expecting co-operation from the forces...

Which only makes sense. "Don't ****-talk us if you want to use our stuff", seems fair.

Not sure what the deal was with the Iron Man movies, whether the government had any say-so over script notes, but it wouldn't surprise me if Marvel ran some stuff by them on the Afghanistan stuff or had to meet some bar in order to be able to film at Edwards or whatever installation was doubling for Edwards. Usually happens when a production's getting access to actual physical property & assets rather than just CGing 100% of it. Hard to say with The First Avenger given it's all period and they weren't shooting on bases or whatever, but even then they tied that film pretty heavily with the military promotionally (didn't they even do an early screening or two on an aircraft carrier?), there was probably some handshake deal at the very least. There's plenty of jeeps and uniforms and rifles and whatever else that studios probably have their own examples to use, but even shooting in the UK it would't seem out of the question they were consulting on certain stuff with the US army.

Wouldn't it be weirder if a movie about an air force pilot was all "the U.S. is a problematic military-industrial imperialist presence!!!1!!! Raah rabble rabble rabble!". Especially given Carol's not one of those types of people anyway, character-wise she's pretty straight down the line, snark aside she's probably way more with pre-TWS Cap on this stuff. Certainly Tony, even with concerns over how his weapons were being sold illegally (he never had a problem with the military having his stuff in general - pre-Civil War Stark's about as George Bush/Reagan as it gets, politically) wouldn't see it this way either.

Especially given this is 90s, pre-9/11, the western nations are basically at peace and there's no real controversy at play. Nobody (serious people, anyway) saw Iraq '91 or the Balkans stuff as unjustified, not sure why that outlook would play into this movie. Why wouldn't the military be portrayed positively in a movie set in the mid-90s about a...military woman?

Basically, 10 years in to the MCU they're not going to start with this "we're as bad as the bad guys!" schtick now. All of this stuff is covered in The Winter Soldier anyway, the overreach stuff, that's about as far as Feige'll take it. Even Black Panther, Killmonger's pretty clearly depicted as being in the wrong with all his "the west = bad guy!" stuff, much as certain segments of the population didn't really seem to grasp that and prefer to hold him up as semi-justified.
 
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Agreed.
TWS should be considered the final word on this subject.
My Dad was a machinist in the Air Corps before it became the USAF.
My brother served in the Air Force.
He flew KC135's during the second Gulf War.
He retired at the rank of Major.
I will be going to CM this weekend as a proud military family member.
 
interesting. I was going to start a thread about how the military angle would be a good selling point and they should probably push it more.

It's an unavoidable part of her character. Personally it doesn't strike me as propaganda.
 
Hey, I know how this guy feels! When Ant-Man came out, I didn't like the propaganda in the film about how Baskin Robbins was this all-knowing entity! The way they tried to get people to drop their career plans and work at BR was just totally uncool. It was clear that, like Captain Marvel and the Military, they wanted teenagers and others to drop what they were doing and work at BR to be like Ant-Man.

Wait, that sounds stupid? Oh, why, yes it does. She was an Air Force pilot in the comics, which is awesome. Frank Castle has always been a Marine. Nick Fury has always been military, and Captain America has always been Army. No one gets angry when Spider-man and Superman promote people working for newspapers.

Man...people.

*This post sponsored by Baskin Robbins and the return of the "Mango Fruit Blast Smoothie", now back at BR before its' out of here! We'll find out if you don't....Baskin Robbins always find out, yo!

maxresdefault-13.jpg
 
Hey, I know how this guy feels! When Ant-Man came out, I didn't like the propaganda in the film about how Baskin Robbins was this all-knowing entity! The way they tried to get people to drop their career plans and work at BR was just totally uncool. It was clear that, like Captain Marvel and the Military, they wanted teenagers and others to drop what they were doing and work at BR to be like Ant-Man.

Wait, that sounds stupid? Oh, why, yes it does. She was an Air Force pilot in the comics, which is awesome. Frank Castle has always been a Marine. Nick Fury has always been military, and Captain America has always been Army. No one gets angry when Spider-man and Superman promote people working for newspapers.

Man...people.

*This post sponsored by Baskin Robbins and the return of the "Mango Fruit Blast Smoothie", now back at BR before its' out of here! We'll find out if you don't....Baskin Robbins always find out, yo!

maxresdefault-13.jpg
I am now beginning to suspect that the film mentally manipulated me into very uncharacteristically ordering 3 banana caramel baked waffles soon after seeing it. My mom was worried. Can I still get compensation?
 
There's no propaganda because
there's not much in terms of military presence in the film.
 
This argument is like saying any movie that features the police has to address police brutality.
 
The movie not only featured the military...but many theaters (including mine) showed a Captain Marvel/Air Force featurette before the movie started...and it was of course reported in the media that marvel brought in military folks to watch the premiere. OF COURSE it's propaganda...but this is a character that is inescapably tied to the military, so it makes good business sense to use what you've got to your advantage.
 
I am now beginning to suspect that the film mentally manipulated me into very uncharacteristically ordering 3 banana caramel baked waffles soon after seeing it. My mom was worried. Can I still get compensation?

I'm sure you have to find a special attorney who deals in Exploitation cases and who is also a "foodie".
 
It's light character narrative-justified propaganda at worst, at least to me anyway. I haven't seen too many ads or promo pieces that are as gung-ho about its militaristic aspect as something like Top Gun was obviously meant to be (even though it is a period piece meant to evoke Top Gun vibes among other things, or at least that's the vibe I've been getting from the advertisements), but yeah, she's an Air Force pilot and they wanted to be authentic. Now, the amount that the U.S. military has actually used pop culture at large to propagandize is problematic, but again, I don't think it's a real problem in this specific case.

I initially thought much the same thing about Captain America (not that I saw his film series themselves as being openly pro-U.S. military industrial complex) but then I watched the movies and considering how much the character has changed over the course of his arc (and he was never really ra ra U-S-A to begin with), I'm expecting something similar-ish with Carol.

Wouldn't it be weirder if a movie about an air force pilot was all "the U.S. is a problematic military-industrial imperialist presence!!!1!!! Raah rabble rabble rabble!". Especially given Carol's not one of those types of people anyway, character-wise she's pretty straight down the line, snark aside she's probably way more with pre-TWS Cap on this stuff. Certainly Tony, even with concerns over how his weapons were being sold illegally (he never had a problem with the military having his stuff in general - pre-Civil War Stark's about as George Bush/Reagan as it gets, politically) wouldn't see it this way either.

Especially given this is 90s, pre-9/11, the western nations are basically at peace and there's no real controversy at play. Nobody (serious people, anyway) saw Iraq '91 or the Balkans stuff as unjustified, not sure why that outlook would play into this movie. Why wouldn't the military be portrayed positively in a movie set in the mid-90s about a...military woman?

Basically, 10 years in to the MCU they're not going to start with this "we're as bad as the bad guys!" schtick now. All of this stuff is covered in The Winter Soldier anyway, the overreach stuff, that's about as far as Feige'll take it. Even Black Panther, Killmonger's pretty clearly depicted as being in the wrong with all his "the west = bad guy!" stuff, much as certain segments of the population didn't really seem to grasp that and prefer to hold him up as semi-justified.

As an aside, I've thought the MCU movies that largely deal with the U.S. military industrial complex come out as relatively neutral on it, which both works and doesn't work depending on the story. Stark's origin story of a legal weapons dealer being taken out by his own toys was a nice bit of karma and a nod to how much American-made weapons end up in the hands of the "wrong" people either through poor official foreign policy decisions or shady underhanded dealings.

On the other hand, as much as I liked The Winter Soldier, I thought the "Hydra was behind everything!" reveal was such a copout. I mean, sure, Western governments that were formerly on the Allied powers did ultimately take in some Nazi researchers -- and Nazi sympathizers have always existed in the U.S. since the party originated in Germany -- so I appreciated that nod, but still, building up all of this tension over government overreach only to have the threat just being foreign enemy infiltrators took so much wind out of the sails thematically, at least for me.

Black Panther
had some nods (Shuri's "Colonizer" jab at a CIA agent was resonantly funny if you know 20th century African history; it was more than just a racial reference) and was generally ambivalent about how it approached critiquing the current real world powers-that-be, but it didn't go as far as it could've in the "These white men are dangerous!" direction. Ross explaining Killmonger's military black ops history was I think one of the best parts in that regard, at least of the ones that stayed; two of the deleted scenes are more direct (W'Kabi and Okoye's conversation and Ross' warning to T'Challa before his UN speech) and I refuse to believe they were just cut for time/pacing. On that last point on Killmonger, his methods and aspects of his ends are clearly depicted as being in the wrong, but considering how much the film also indicts Wakanda's historical inaction to actually offer support to the rest of Africa and the diaspora (which would inevitably entail taking military actions against Western colonization of Africa at large), it's hard if not impossible to say that it wants us to write off Killmonger as unjustified, so if that's what you came away with then I feel like we weren't watching the same film. (Hell, even Chadwick Boseman has said that he identifies more with Killmonger and felt like he could've easily been the unambiguous tragic hero of the story with a few personality and script tweaks.)
 
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