Naruto vs One Piece

[Fading]

(To Lord) As a side note, your English is perfectly fine. I wish I could type in another language half as well as you type in English. Heck...I wish most natural born US citizens that go online typed English as well as you do, lol.

 

[Lord]

Who the hell talked about finding 20th century boys pretencious? I never read it and it's in the top of my must read list. I saw your Berserk quote but my response was largelly to the original poster of that coment, i was even going to quote the original poster but thought "hey, what the hell, i'll just post it without a quote and answer this DarkMelody dude too".

Calling somebody elitist isn't being insecure, as i told you before (you even found it funny), posting multiple smileys is normally a sign of insecurity and trying to get on the other poster's nerve, as well as try to show others that you are the "pacifist" one. Which is why it's rare to see it done nowadays except in an argument.

I also never said One Piece was brilliant, well done? Yes, Imaginative? Yep, With good world building and interesting characters? Yes, and yes. It's just a well done manga, uses the full potencial of the medium very well. That doesn't mean it doesn't have flaws, what used to be character development is now turning into characters stables.

Let's just stop calling each other insecure, in the end we just seem like two kids calling each other names, thank you for those recomendations, but there you just seemed snobish.

By the way, you should be a politician, you certainly know how to build arguments.

(To Lord) As a side note, your English is perfectly fine. I wish I could type in another language half as well as you type in English. Heck...I wish most natural born US citizens that go online typed English as well as you do, lol.

Thanks, i like english, it's not too complicated and i like the pronunciation. Around here only some animated movies are dubed so most films are in english with subtitles, i guess that helps understanding the language better.

edit: I'm seeing you're writing something DarkMelody, please have mercy, it's already 01:12 a.m. around here and i would like to sleep :/

 

[DarkMelody]

Nice false equivalency you created at the end (I love how you tried to settle things by saying this was a futile cycle of us looking like kids calling each other names and then immediately followed that by calling me snobbish, you're so unintentionally hilarious).
The difference is your psychoanalysis is just asinine hilarity (have you published this theory on internet forum smileys? It's so fascinating!). You have no idea what my normal rate of smiley use on forums is. How do you know this isn't average for me? How do you know I don't constantly use smileys? I said I found it funny because I was laughing AT you, it's gotta be the dumbest argument and most hilariously flawed attempt at psychoanalysis I've ever heard in my life. You're just stating it as if it's some established fact of psychology or something. Keep your weird internet pseudoscience to yourself please. For all you know I just use a lot of smileys in my posts in general, regardless of whether or not they're arguments. Though it'd be silliness even if you did know how many smileys I typically post on the forums I'm on. It's just utter silliness. It's the debating tactic of someone who has no debating ability, pointing out their use of emoticons.

All you're revealing to me with your attempts at analysis are that I'm getting on your nerves and you're taking things personally (by essentially telling me by positing your hilarious internet smiley theory and then saying it seemed like I was taking things personally when I was actually enjoying yourself), you're self-reflecting. You only reveal yourself when you take such shots in the dark.

You definitely shouldn't ever try pursuing a political career. Glad you appreciated the recommendations though.

 

[Lord]

Nice false equivalency you created at the end.

Yeah, but in least i did stop calling you insecure

The difference is your psychoanalysis is just asinine hilarity (have you published this theory on internet forum smileys? It's so fascinating!). You have no idea what my normal rate of smiley use on forums is. How do you know this isn't average for me? How do you know I don't constantly use smileys? I said I found it funny because I was laughing AT you, it's gotta be the dumbest argument and most hilariously flawed attempt at psychoanalysis I've ever heard in my life. You're just stating it as if it's some established fact of psychology or something. Keep your weird internet pseudoscience to yourself please. For all you know I just use a lot of smileys in my posts, regardless of whether or not they're arguments.

It's not really about you, i got this from my experience on the internet. And there you are using fancy words again :/

All you're revealing to me with your attempts at analysis are that I'm getting on your nerves and you're taking things personally (by essentially telling me by positing your hilarious internet smiley theory and then saying it seemed like I was taking things personally when I was actually enjoying yourself), you're self-reflecting. You only reveal yourself when you take such shots in the dark.

What gets on my nerve is when you tell me your arguments are getting on my nerve.

You definitely shouldn't ever try pursuing a political career. Glad you appreciated the recommendations though.

Yeah, i don't have many fancy words, but then again it's because of politics argumenting with fancy words and starting to analyse their oponents instead of focusing on the subject of the discussion (which was shonens being able to be as good as seinen in our discussion) that my country's in the state it is.

 

[DarkMelody]

Fancy words? I don't know what you're talking about.

Funny because you were actually the first person who had to go off subject, by the way. We were discussing manga writing and manga standards and you inserted your silly little "by the way" theory of smileys. Go back and look, you took the first turn (even if it was just a tiny turn) out of anime/manga because you couldn't keep on topic. Blame yourself. You began the silly analysis. You made the first mention of something totally unconnected to anime/manga and instead a criticism of your opponent's style of posting. Even my discussions of elitism and such were still connected to the main subject, you're the first one here who had to jump to the crutch of something totally unconnected to the subject. Look back yourself!
http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=25865729&postcount=45

So thanks for criticizing yourself at the end, I totally agree with you.

 

[Lord]

Not really, you're the one who started analysing my posts because of my answer to you.

I never meant to get into a giant war about Shounen anyway, it was just that guy jumping on and overinflating my innocent humorous comments and self-reflecting his own insecurities and assumptions (like assuming I'm this or that type of viewer that bothered him in the past or that I seriously thought Berserk was top of manga quality or that he could blow my mind by recommending things like Monster and Vagabond, I mean my grandma has probably heard of those ).

My coment about smileys was even very brief, yet you seem to constantly jump to that part.

 

[DarkMelody]

I like how you just bolded the part that supports your false arguing point. Why only bold that part of the sentence? Bold the entire sentence, it's not separate. Continue reading the parenthetical justification and you see that it's directly connected to our debate on the subject of anime and manga. See, even then I was still referring to and criticizing your anime/manga views and anime/manga recommendations and drawing conclusions based on them.

You must concede that you began the first TOTALLY DISCONNECTED silliness. You weren't basing it on my talk of anime or manga, you were basing it on my SMILIES! Essentially going totally off subject and arguing an aesthetic triviality. You weren't drawing conclusions based on anything I'd said about anime or manga. Therefore you are essentially criticizing yourself here-

Yeah, i don't have many fancy words, but then again it's because of politics argumenting with fancy words and starting to analyse their oponents instead of focusing on the subject of the discussion (which was shonens being able to be as good as seinen in our discussion) that my country's in the state it is.

Good work!

 

[Lord]

Huh? You started analysing me and i posted the smileys stuff, i don't bold the rest because it isn't related to going off-topic.

 

[DarkMelody]

Ugh, I think we're facing a language or understanding barrier here or something.
The rest was part of that sentence! You can't cut my sentence in half and then call one half off-topic! The rest was me explaining the part that you think was off-topic, it was part of that sentence! I was analyzing you as overinflating and self-reflecting BASED ON YOUR ANIME/MANGA RECOMMENDATIONS and points of view. That parenthetical part is still part of that sentence! It's me justifying the parts you think are unconnected off-topic and random! It even begins with "like"! It's all one big sentence!
Do you understand? My analysis of you was still derived from your discussion of the subject of anime/manga.

Your asinine silliness about smilies has no basis in the subject of smilies or on the basis of anything I was saying, it was entirely random.

 

[Lord]

If that's the case then i didn't go off topic either, i wrote a single line of the simelys stuff, the rest was me answering you normally. It's all one big sentence. It was no more random than you saying my answer was due to insecurities, didn't make sence and was off-topic, what you're doing is picking the quotes that fit your arguments better and leave anything else out, including what i've said repeatedly (that you were the first to go off topic)

P.S- I'm going to sleep now, write whatever you want, i'll answer you tomorrow, by the way, i dunno what parenthetical or asinine means, that's what i meant with fancy words, never in my years in any internet forum have i seen them.

 

[DarkMelody]

Ugh, this is an exercise in futility. You're not grasping things. The language barrier is too enormous and whenever I post all you have to say is I'm using "fancy words".
You can't cut one of my sentences in half and then call one half of it offtopic. The part in the parentheses is me justifying why the stuff before it is on-topic, it's me describing why I feel you're like that based on your thoughts and posts ABOUT anime and manga. I was making that statement based on your anime/manga point of view and recommendations. Did you just stop reading at some point? What do you think the part in the parentheses is? A new sentence? It's literally me providing my reasoning in regards to the part you think is off-topic.
Your silly talk on smilies was totally out of left field, it had no basis in the subject we were discussing. It was not based on my discussion of anime/manga or my opinions on it. My statement up there was directly based on your discussion of anime/manga, as I state in the following part in the parentheses.

You. Were. The. First. Person. To. Begin. Analysis. Totally. Disconnected. From. The. Subject.
That's how it is.

i wrote a single line of the simelys stuff, the rest was me answering you normally. It's all one big sentence.

So is it a single disconnected line or all one big sentence?
You made the first step out of topic. Even if it was a tiny step, it was the first non sequitur. END. OF. STORY. My talk of insecurities was DIRECTLY INFLUENCED by your discussing anime and manga (as you'd see if you stopped just quoting a single piece of the sentence and read the part in the parentheses), yours was directly influenced by...smilies... XD
And I don't think you know what a sentence is. You're saying what I'm quoting here is one big continuing sentence? HahahahahahahaAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

By the way, an exageration of smileys normally means you're feeling anxious about a certain subject and try to get on a disagreeing poster's nerve. If it's not intentional then it doesn't seem like that.

And let me tell yu something more, writing well is a gift, however writing well and making an original and unforgetable world is even more difficult, it's something Oda manages to do, it's something Kishimoto for Part 1 of Naruto was able to do, something Rowling, Togashi, Lewis Carrol and Tolkien manage to do too.

You WERE actually splicing a full sentence of mine. Note the punctuation! I'm not splicing anything of yours. Is what I'm quoting above from you a single big continuing sentence? I don't think you understand what a sentence is. You take two sentences to take the time to stop the subject of discussion and insert a random thing, and then continue the actual subject of debate afterwards. That's not one big continuing sentence. What you quoted of mine is all one sentence, note that the part in the parentheses is me discussing and justifying my talk on you based on your views on anime and manga. Read my full sentence, allow me to bold the complete sentence for you-

I never meant to get into a giant war about Shounen anyway, it was just that guy jumping on and overinflating my innocent humorous comments and self-reflecting his own insecurities and assumptions (like assuming I'm this or that type of viewer that bothered him in the past or that I seriously thought Berserk was top of manga quality or that he could blow my mind by recommending things like Monster and Vagabond, I mean my grandma has probably heard of those ).

You made the first totally disconnected jump into asinine randomness. Your justifications for doing so don't change that. So thanks for criticizing yourself a few posts ago. The end.

Stop just spitting my arguments back at me because you have no ability to formulate your own. I say you're cutting quotes so you say I'm cutting quotes too, but the problem is what you quoted was actually one big sentence...what I'm quoting from you is not.
Anyway, this time I really am done with this thread because I can tell you don't have anymore interesting arguments to offer me other than just going "NO YOU ARE". Nice debating you, it was at least a little more entertaining than shooting fish in a barrel (not really though).

 

[Lord]

Ugh, this is an exercise in futility. You're not grasping things. The language barrier is too enormous and whenever I post all you have to say is I'm using "fancy words".
You can't cut one of my sentences in half and then call one half of it offtopic.

But that's exactly what you did

I criticised your statement of Shonen being for "12 year old boys", One Piece's for example explores an interesting theme every arc without making the whole story around that, and try to force those ideas in the viewers like many seinens and even "smart" films of novels try to.



Nice to know, i recomended them to you and the poster that comented that Berserk wins, and i don't see how my assumption didn't make sence, this was a Naruto vs One Piece thread, discussion about those two mangas and nothing more, yet here comes 2 posters saying Berserk wins by default, are the 3 series shonens? nope, Berserk is a seinen, so the only reason for that to be posted would be because it was a comparison of what's the best manga.

Otherwise it doesn't make much sence, why choose Berserk? It doesn't have much in comon with the other two.

By the way, an exageration of smileys normally means you're feeling anxious about a certain subject and try to get on a disagreeing poster's nerve. If it's not intentional then it doesn't seem like that.

And let me tell yu something more, writing well is a gift, however writing well and making an original and unforgetable world is even more difficult, it's something Oda manages to do, it's something Kishimoto for Part 1 of Naruto was able to do, something Rowling, Togashi, Lewis Carrol and Tolkien manage to do too.

It's also what i like about shonens, the intricate world building and mechanics, interesting villains, complex abilities, and etc.

Oda's biggest problem is not killing most characters unless plot needs to or it was in a flashback, Pell is the best example, he had the perfect death of a hero and now is doing nothing for the plot.

The writers that have probably used the medium to its full potencial are probably Fullmetal Alchemist's writer and Togashi (Hunter X Hunter), but that's because they're the ones that present less flaws.

The part in bold is what you say is me going off topic, and this is your previous post, and i will once again bold the part where you go off topic:

I never meant to get into a giant war about Shounen anyway, it was just that guy jumping on and overinflating my innocent humorous comments and self-reflecting his own insecurities and assumptions (like assuming I'm this or that type of viewer that bothered him in the past or that I seriously thought Berserk was top of manga quality or that he could blow my mind by recommending things like Monster and Vagabond, I mean my grandma has probably heard of those ).

I don't feel good about criticizing Shounen anyway, it makes me seem like a big bully. It's how I feel when I see people mocking Twilight, I feel like it brings them down, it's like when you were in elementary school and kids would try to seem more grownup and cool by making fun of Barney and Sesame Street.

I went just as much off-topic as you did, and i did it because my entire post was an answer to yours, my analysis of smileys was going as off topic as you saying i answered to you due to insecurities, another funny thing is how both sentences were small, you're complaining about me going off-topic with that? It's simple, you analyse me, i analyse you, were ou expecting me to keep quiet while you were saying i just answered to you because of insecurities? Sorry but that's not the way it works.

The part in the parentheses is me justifying why the stuff before it is on-topic, it's me describing why I feel you're like that based on your thoughts and posts ABOUT anime and manga. I was making that statement based on your anime/manga point of view and recommendations. Did you just stop reading at some point? What do you think the part in the parentheses is? A new sentence? It's literally me providing my reasoning in regards to the part you think is off-topic.

So what? It was still off-topic, the part in ()'s only looks like an extension of that, while the previous part (when ou went off topic) just looks like you telling me why i decided to give you those manga names. You specifically say my insecurities led me to post that.

You should realy be more careful about what you write, because hidden between your posts you write things that can be personally perceived as insults:

I'll just say there's a language barrier here, you don't seen to have understood most of what I've been saying.
I wasn't saying you'd be the one feeling bullied, no need to be bold and proclaim how you don't feel bullied, you didn't grasp that last analogy of mine at all. And the fact that you don't understand my intentions for quoting the Berserk post doesn't mean you can enforce your intentions onto it. Like I said, I don't think Berserk is the best manga of all time, so game over with that line of your debate. Let me tell you, the world is a big place and there are a lot of intentions and senses of humor and personalities you may not immediately grasp.
No point in responding to any of your fallacies regarding me being "elitist" though, like I said that's the lamest most insecure of arguments to call someone elitist. You just vaguely touch on how certain media is forced intellectualism without naming any in particular anyway, if you find 20th Century Boys forced and pretentious and One Piece fluid and brilliant in comparison then well...you can't win 'em all, there's a reason A Haunted House made so much money.

Strange for you to think I'm taking anything at all personally though...I guess that's you self-reflecting? I'm not taking a single thing personally here, it's just anime discussion after all. Different strokes for different folks.

Maybe I can recommend you some manga-ka so that you can come away from this with some cool new manga to try out.
Kengo Hanzawa
Inio Asano
Naoki Urasawa
Jiro Matsumoto
Hitoshi Iwaaki
Satoshi Mizukami
Kouji Mori
Mohiro Kitoh

I'm sure you've heard of a few of them and maybe tried some of their series, but I doubt you've tried everything they have to offer. That should be enough derailing this thread anyway, I'd rather not get in trouble for going offtopic so if you feel like continuing this dance then you'll be doing so on your own.

Your silly talk on smilies was totally out of left field, it had no basis in the subject we were discussing. It was not based on my discussion of anime/manga or my opinions on it. My statement up there was directly based on your discussion of anime/manga, as I state in the following part in the parentheses.

It had as much to do was you all of a sudden saying my insecurities led me to post that. Or even more off-topic as this whole discussion we're having about seinen, and it's even more off-topic the discussion we're having about who went off-topic first, which you started by the way:

You. Were. The. First. Person. To. Begin. Analysis. Totally. Disconnected. From. The. Subject.
That's how it is.

sigh

I never meant to get into a giant war about Shounen anyway, it was just that guy jumping on and overinflating my innocent humorous comments and self-reflecting his own insecurities and assumptions (like assuming I'm this or that type of viewer that bothered him in the past or that I seriously thought Berserk was top of manga quality or that he could blow my mind by recommending things like Monster and Vagabond, I mean my grandma has probably heard of those ).

I don't feel good about criticizing Shounen anyway, it makes me seem like a big bully. It's how I feel when I see people mocking Twilight, I feel like it brings them down, it's like when you were in elementary school and kids would try to seem more grownup and cool by making fun of Barney and Sesame Street.

Just because you followed that with anime related content doesn't mean it wasn't disconnected, in fact what you put in parentheses is in your words an example, otherwise you should have used "as was shoun when" instead of "like assuming".

So is it a single disconnected line or all one big sentence?

It was a reference to what you had just said, my post was as disconnected as your post was, so what you're saying right there is also directly contradicting your oun statement.

You made the first step out of topic. Even if it was a tiny step, it was the first non sequitur. END. OF. STORY. My talk of insecurities was DIRECTLY INFLUENCED by your discussing anime and manga (as you'd see if you stopped just quoting a single piece of the sentence and read the part in the parentheses), yours was directly influenced by...smilies... XD
And I don't think you know what a sentence is. You're saying what I'm quoting here is one big continuing sentence?

Why should i quote something that is supposed to be extra information and is given as just an example of my "insecurities", even if i went by your logic you would have been the first one to go out of topic since your statement about me was what pushed me to write that about smileys.

But why are you even still discussing the smileys bit, it was short, it's not as if it sparked a complete new discussion about smileys, in fact you don't stop using that as an excuse for going even more off-topic. Did i hit any nerve with my smileys psychology for you to get that much to heart?

HahahahahahahaAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Uhm, calm down.

You WERE actually splicing a full sentence of mine. Note the punctuation! I'm not splicing anything of yours. Is what I'm quoting above from you a single big continuing sentence? I don't think you understand what a sentence is. You take two sentences to take the time to stop the subject of discussion and insert a random thing, and then continue the actual subject of debate afterwards. That's not one big continuing sentence. What you quoted of mine is all one sentence, note that the part in the parentheses is me discussing and justifying my talk on you based on your views on anime and manga. Read my full sentence, allow me to bold the complete sentence for you-

Huhm, i put in bold what matters, the rest is on topic conversation but isn't given there as the reason for you going off topic, just an example inside of the thread of my insecurities making me write what i did. It's your oun sentence and next time don't put what you consider important information inside of ()'s, which are supposed to be more for extra information.

You made the first totally disconnected jump into asinine randomness. Your justifications for doing so don't change that. So thanks for criticizing yourself a few posts ago. The end.

my answer for that is:

You made the first totally disconnected jump into asinine randomness. Your justifications for doing so don't change that.

Stop just spitting my arguments back at me because you have no ability to formulate your own. I say you're cutting quotes so you say I'm cutting quotes too, but the problem is what you quoted was actually one big sentence...what I'm quoting from you is not.
Anyway, this time I really am done with this thread because I can tell you don't have anymore interesting arguments to offer me other than just going "NO YOU ARE". Nice debating you, it was at least a little more entertaining than shooting fish in a barrel (not really though).

The reason i can't offer you any better argument is because i've already done it, but you simply repeat what you just said, and i've made my reasons as obvious as i could. The topic we're discussing right now is who went off-topic first (which is a kind of ******ed topic), so it's normal that when you say i did it, my counter-argument will feel like "NO YOU ARE".

I simply can't give you a proper answer because you dismiss it as "nah nah, i put an example in there"

And really, why the hell are we still talking about this? Why do you want so hard to prove that i went off-topic first? It was part of my answer, except that unlike yours mine didn't have an extra () with examples. Really, WHO THE HELL CARES for who started going off topic? I was here because of the match and arguments about good mangas, yet you insist on bringing this subject. Why? I gave you my reasons, over and over again.

And off-topic talk happens anywhere, know what the problem here is? we're already off-topic for a page.

 

[Mr. Dent]

They're both pretty bad at this point. But in their heyday, I give Naruto part 1 over OP. OP was a bunch of filler and the only really good arcs were the CP9 arc and everything during and after Impel Down before the timeskip.

Naruto on the other hand was consistently good throughout part 1, felt like a continuous story rather than a bunch of episodic long arcs, the character relationships had more depth to them, and Naruto was a more relatable character than Luffy. Did I mention the character relationships are about 10x better in Naruto? Anyway, after the timeskip all that went to hell regardless and it's been a mess ever since.

 

[Lord]

They're both pretty bad at this point. But in their heyday,

I have to disagree, One Piece has weaker bits, but it's very damn consistent, the latest arc has been very good. OP is almost like a continuous tv show, each year the plot and arcs are usually different, there are some very exciting years, while there are other slower years, However they allways lead into something grand.

I give Naruto part 1 over OP. OP was a bunch of filler and the only really good arcs were the CP9 arc and everything during and after Impel Down before the timeskip.

I think it depends on tastes, do you prefer a continuous story or adventures? Prefering one doesn't make the other bad, the first half of OP had many weak moments but every Saga had something extremelly good about it, i think that the difference between Ocidental tastes pay a major factor since we usually prefer stories that are more "grounded".

East Blue, Baroque Works, Skypiea, CP9 and Whitebeard War. I can't classify any of them was actually being bad because they had both fun and deep moments, all of them were stories above average and had themes that are not usually done as much in fiction, without actually shoe horning them, since they allways fitted with the story.

Naruto on the other hand was consistently good throughout part 1, felt like a continuous story rather than a bunch of episodic long arcs, the character relationships had more depth to them, and Naruto was a more relatable character than Luffy. Did I mention the character relationships are about 10x better in Naruto? Anyway, after the timeskip all that went to hell regardless and it's been a mess ever since.

Never say that when Nensence is around, he would eat you alive, unless you have ever encountered him in the NF forums, he would start beating you in the head about how much every good thing in Naruto was a rip-off of Hunter X Hunter, and how the dialogues sucked.

Either way, i think i also prefered Naruto Part I, but some of the problems in Part II were enhancements of things that were already wrong in the first half, take Naruto and Sasuke's relationship for example, the first half should have done a better job at making them the best friends Naruto keeps saying they are, they were on the same team for even less than a year.

Another problem was Sakura, when you get down to it, the reason she stoped being friends with Ino was pretty ******ed, and every time she seemed to be growing, she would be successful for only around 2 minutes before needing to be rescued by somebody again. And her talk with Ino in the Chunin exams battle was too a little idiotic on her part, speaking as if she had matured, just because she had cut her hair during the previous events.