Neocons just got punked

[Paradoxium]

For a moment, forget whether it is justified or not.

--------------------------------

Exhibit A: Bush & Iraq

You spend hundreds of billions on it, at the cost of 4000 American deaths. Nevermind life long crippling injuries. You mount a ginomous, lengthy and costly campaign to persuade and maintain this cause. All so you can "spread democracy" to one country. Took years and still many to go from here.

Exhibit B: Ben Bernanke & Nearly the Entire Middle East

Cluelessly punches in a few numbers on the computer (money printing) for QE2. Unintentionally spikes food prices (cheap credit for speculation) in a region where almost half the income is spent on food. Destabilizes an entire region and creating a revolt for Democracy like an epic domino. And we are just a few months in.

--------------------------------

Bit simplistic yea, but it's to get a point across. Seriously, I don't know whether cry or laugh at this.

 

[StorminNorman]

But if we didn't go in and invade Iraq personally, how would we keep gas prices low?

 

[chaseter]

It was dumb to send all those people over there to do the job that a handful of spec ops could have done.

 

[Paradoxium]

Very simple, gas prices was deflating to hell when the housing bubble popped. This was inevitable. As of right now, we are doing everything to keep it up to "stimulate" the economy. Although it doesn't help that China now consumes far more energy than the United States.

 

[Kelly]

It was dumb to send all those people over there to do the job that a handful of spec ops could have done.

Exactly....

 

[8wid]

But if we didn't go in and invade Iraq personally, how would we keep gas prices low?

Did the invasion actually cause gas prices to go up in the last decade?

 

[StorminNorman]

 

[WildcatNC]

It was dumb to send all those people over there to do the job that a handful of spec ops could have done.

Very true if the goal was to kill Sadam. The goal was nation-building all along IMO and a few spec ops could not have done that. They just knew the public wouldn't get behind that, hence the whole WMD facade.

Our whole army can't nation build there either, but thats another issue.

 

[Arc-Light]

 

[dnno1]

But if we didn't go in and invade Iraq personally, how would we keep gas prices low?

Low? I remember paying $4/gallon a back in 2006. It's almost that much now.

 

[Kelly]

Very true if the goal was to kill Sadam. The goal was nation-building all along IMO and a few spec ops could not have done that. They just knew the public wouldn't get behind that, hence the whole WMD facade.

Our whole army can't nation build there either, but thats another issue.

I don't believe there was a WMD facade....just because none were found doesn't mean they did not exist at one point. They had legitimate intel from the UK, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt....it was triangulated....that is fact. The problem was the timing IMO...had we gone in earlier....who knows what would have been found. You don't think Sadaam ever had WMDs????? REALLY???? the man who tested bio **** on his own people???? really?????

I think Powell was smart enough to know they were too late, and knew they were about to be made to look like fools.....he didn't want any part of that. Bush, and his shoot first ask questions later idiocy probably felt like it wouldn't be questioned....POWELL was right.

WMDs or not, it wasn't our business to go in....that is why I was against the war. But, then again, I was against going full on into Afghanistan as well......so I'm not really one to debate about war.....

 

[hippie_hunter]

I don't believe there was a WMD facade....just because none were found doesn't mean they did not exist at one point. They had legitimate intel from the UK, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt....it was triangulated....that is fact. The problem was the timing IMO...had we gone in earlier....who knows what would have been found. You don't think Sadaam ever had WMDs????? REALLY???? the man who tested bio **** on his own people???? really?????

I think Powell was smart enough to know they were too late, and knew they were about to be made to look like fools.....he didn't want any part of that. Bush, and his shoot first ask questions later idiocy probably felt like it wouldn't be questioned....POWELL was right.

That intel came from the fact that Saddam fooled the intelligence agencies around the world that he had a secret WMD program. He was afraid of the Iranians attacking him so he wanted them to be afraid that he'd retaliate with WMDs in the event of such a thing.

Also, it's been confirmed that even though his WMD program was no longer active, it was ready to start back up if/when Saddam said so.

So anyone who says that the WMD excuse was a facade really don't know what they're talking about. But it doesn't change the fact that because Saddam didn't have an active WMD program was massive egg on the United States' face.

 

[Kelly]

Yep....

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Bush cherry picked intell so he could invade Iraq.

It's not like Bush is some innocent victim who had bad intel. No, he was committed to invading Iraq from the start and didn't care if the intel was legit as long as he could get the greenlight.

 

[hippie_hunter]

That I would very much agree with, but it doesn't change the fact that the intelligence of Iraqi WMDs was very real.

 

[Arc-Light]

I don't believe there was a WMD facade....just because none were found doesn't mean they did not exist at one point. They had legitimate intel from the UK, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt....it was triangulated....that is fact. The problem was the timing IMO...had we gone in earlier....who knows what would have been found. You don't think Sadaam ever had WMDs????? REALLY???? the man who tested bio **** on his own people???? really?????

I think Powell was smart enough to know they were too late, and knew they were about to be made to look like fools.....he didn't want any part of that. Bush, and his shoot first ask questions later idiocy probably felt like it wouldn't be questioned....POWELL was right.

WMDs or not, it wasn't our business to go in....that is why I was against the war. But, then again, I was against going full on into Afghanistan as well......so I'm not really one to debate about war.....

I disagree the Gulf war and the late 90's bombing took out anything and everything to make/produce WMD.....things like that don't disappear...

 

[Kelly]

Sure they do...things disappear all the time. If these guys don't want things to be found...they can certainly make that happen.

 

[Kelly]

Bush cherry picked intell so he could invade Iraq.

It's not like Bush is some innocent victim who had bad intel. No, he was committed to invading Iraq from the start and didn't care if the intel was legit as long as he could get the greenlight.

I think he was very much the victim of crappy intel....BUT, as you say...he was COMMITTED to invading Iraq....so once that began, he wasn't about to turn back

 

[WildcatNC]

I don't believe there was a WMD facade....just because none were found doesn't mean they did not exist at one point. They had legitimate intel from the UK, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt....it was triangulated....that is fact. The problem was the timing IMO...had we gone in earlier....who knows what would have been found. You don't think Sadaam ever had WMDs????? REALLY???? the man who tested bio **** on his own people???? really?????

I think Powell was smart enough to know they were too late, and knew they were about to be made to look like fools.....he didn't want any part of that. Bush, and his shoot first ask questions later idiocy probably felt like it wouldn't be questioned....POWELL was right.

WMDs or not, it wasn't our business to go in....that is why I was against the war. But, then again, I was against going full on into Afghanistan as well......so I'm not really one to debate about war.....

I should have been more clear. By "facade" I was insinuating that it was the "cover" story for going in, not the real reason. It was the one used to get the public and other nations on board. All kinds of nations have WMD's and we haven't invaded them. Nor were they in bed with Al-Qaeda. They had wanted to nation build in Iraq long before 9/11 IMO and were committed to making it happen.

While I think there were WMD's there at some point, I don't think they can be taken for their word for anything. I'm sure there was some faulty intelligence, but i'm not convinced it wasn't just distorted, fabricated, and selectively applied to suit their military ambitions.

I don't claim to know, nor do any of us really, but these people are far to shady. If their lips are moving they are probably lying. Of course this can lead to thinking their lying when they are not, but the odds still favor assuming they are full of it most of the time.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I think he was very much the victim of crappy intel....BUT, as you say...he was COMMITTED to invading Iraq....so once that began, he wasn't about to turn back

So you really believe Bush Jr had no intentions to invade Iraq until he learned about these WMDs.

lol.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Our intel was pretty rock solid about North Korea. Why didn't we invade them?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Our intel was pretty rock solid about North Korea. Why didn't we invade them?

I'll give you a hint.

It rhymes with boil and starts with an "o".

 

[hippie_hunter]

Our intel was pretty rock solid about North Korea. Why didn't we invade them?

Because Iraq is an easy victory compared to North Korea. That and North Korea really has nothing to offer the world economically as opposed to Iraq's resources.

 

[Arc-Light]

Our intel was pretty rock solid about North Korea. Why didn't we invade them?

Oh that is simple........they actually had WMD....

 

[WildcatNC]

Oh that is simple........they actually had WMD....