Question on thematic undertone of Watchmen

[Mr. Sinister05]

Just finished reading Watchmen a few days ago and was wondering a few things.
How's Veidt's masterplan counter the psychology/humor of the Comedian. Why was the comedian so disturbed when he talked to Moloch and feel so helpless?

Also, what's the blood spattered smiley-face symbol supposed to represent? I noticed the story ended on this symbol as well.

 

[Lobster Charlie]

It's like Veidt said---"professional jealousy." The "joke" that Veidt had pulled was so grandiose, so ridiculous in scale, and so *perfect*, that it just blew Blake's mind. But the punchline is what gets Blake. Blake loves to revel in the nastiness of the world, he loves to fight and be in the middle of the chaos. Veidt's "joke" would result in world peace. It was too much for Blake to handle.

I think the blood-spattered smiley face ultimately sums up the plot of the entire Watchmen story---it's "happiness" but at the cost of bloodshed.

 

[Mr. Sinister05]

If Blake knew about the masterplan and liked to revel in the world's nastiness why did he not tell everyone then instead of keep it to himself?

Also, the smiley face is what Blake wore so I figured it was kind of a symbol for his dark/humorous view of the world and the blood stain on the smiley face meant an end to that. Yet at the end this same symbol appears again. So figure you explained the smiley face thing as best as it can be explained.

 

[Lobster Charlie]

Blake had a very dark sense of humor, and I believe would have been "happy" if mankind had nuked themselves to oblivion. I think the cornerstone of his "humor" and is lack of morals was a "what's the point, anyway?" type attitude. He figured since we're all gonna die, at least join in on the fun and blow ***** up with everyone else.

But don't forget, Veidt killed Blake because Blake still presented the potential threat of his plot being exposed to the rest of the world.

 

[MaskedManJRK]

If Blake knew about the masterplan and liked to revel in the world's nastiness why did he not tell everyone then instead of keep it to himself?

Probably because he knew no one would believe him. I mean, it sounds rediculious at first--Viedt, a respected businessman and former superhero, decides to unleash a big man-made alien on New York City, killing millions of people? They couldn't or want to believe it.

 

[Lobster Charlie]

Exactly--this makes it the "ultimate" joke.

 

[Mr. Sinister05]

He didn't have to say the whole truth though. For instance he could've simply left a tip that there's terrorist activity on the island and that wouldn't have gotten all laughs. Veidt may have taken him out but he still had enough time afterwards.

 

[MaskedManJRK]

He didn't have to say the whole truth though. For instance he could've simply left a tip that there's terrorist activity on the island and that wouldn't have gotten all laughs. Veidt may have taken him out but he still had enough time afterwards.

True, but he also could have been going through shock with the idea of it. He certainly seemed to show it when he was drunk and in Moloch's bedroom.

Not to mention the fact that his morality is...flexible, at best.

 

[Mr. Sinister05]

I think I'm beginning to understand it a bit:
What you said is true. The whole scale/shock value of the plan probably surprised him but it seems what really got him was that this plan's aftermath on humanity (once the plan was enacted) could result in world peace and this wouldn't have fit his view of the world leaving him numb and not knowing how to react (both personally and professionally).
The fact that violence and devastatation could lead to such a peaceful aftermath seems to have messed with his mind a bit. He focused on the dark side of humanity. The violence and devastation he witnessed and participated gave him gratification and fit well his worldview. Therefore, the fact that an act of violence could be used to lead to such an anti-climactic end could've messed with him wondering where his priorities lie (afterall, what's there to laugh at when the violence/devastation results in world peace and there's not as much to showcase the dark underbelly of humanity that he saw as the real side).



If this was his state of mind, it seems a bit easier to see how he may have seen his options. For instance, if he told anyone, everyone could've still seen a new threat (what terrorists could be capable of rather than an alien invasion) and an uneasy alliance between counties could happen. If he didn't tell anyone then the whole world alliance thing would most likely come into play. My point is, maybe the Comedian didn't want world peace (the world climate changes and his career comes into jeapordy) and he saw this maybe happening whether he told or or not.
However, most likely he saw his options the same way as the other heroes at the end of issue 12 (instead of the scenario described in paragraph above). Eitherway, all he could do was remain silent and see what happened (something he probably wasn't accustomed to doing).

 

[Punch]

The Comedian was caught in the same dilemma that the rest of the characters were at the end. The decision was "too big" for him to make, just as the Crime-Busters were too small to really make a difference in the big picture. The real motive for Veidt killing him was to get even with him. This is a purely vain act.

Remember, comedians reveal truths. At his burial we see all of the characters remembering Blake. All of these memories involve Blake revealing uncomfortable truths, and what is watchmen about if it isn't uncomfortable truths?

Another thing about Veidt, why is it that he lies about how his servants died, even when he's about to admit to mass murder?

Now the stained smiley face. that motif pops up countless times, That (same?) button gets stained in that same manner, more or less, when Blake is in Viet Nam; once by his sweat and once by his blood after getting slashed. Later on, it's again marked by the drink Laurie throws in his face. In fact,when HJ beats him up, his shirt gets stained where the button would be.
Besides those instances, it also pops up elsewhere, in different forms:
-the covers of 7,10 and 11
-Chapter 8: page18: panel 3
-12:6
-5:7:1
-5:16:4
-11:28:9

This is just what I remember now as I was just skimming through the book for a few minutes. I'm sure there are more that I don't know about.

 

[Captain Carnage]

Summat to smiley about; how many o' these will make it into the movie, I wonder?:

Chap I
Badge in the gutter (duuur)
The Comedian's facial scar (same angle as the blood splash)
The smoke from the cop's cigarette (same angle across his face)
The clouds and airship in front of the setting sun
The eye makeup of the woman in the restaurant

Chap II
The rain drop 'tear' on the statue in the cemetery
The reflections in Moloch's Solar Mirror Weapon
The angle of Comedian's fist in Sally's face
The splash of blood on Comedian's tunic after he's punched in the face
The first splash of blood Comedian gets on his badge in 'Nam after his face is sliced open
First look at the Owlship - very smiley-ish!
The shape of the splash on the side of the Owlship after the riot

Chap III
(not a smiley/blood image, but a cool skull shape, screaming in profile to the left in the smoke in front of the Fallout Shelter sign on the opening full page)
The seaweed covering the Black Freighter figurehead's face
The strand of hair in front of Laurie's right eye
Laurie's reflection in her coffee
The microphones/glasses on the table in the TV studio

Chap IV
The angle of the pink sand on top of the photograph
The cogs from the watch look very smiley!
In the background of Jon and Janey’s old photo, the image is suggested by the balloons, a tower and a section of ferris wheel
When he disintegrates, Jon's right eye is still visible
Dr Manhattan's forehead symbol - kinda smiley-ish?
The sweat dripping on to Comedian's badge as he plays with his flame thrower
The crosses through the heroes faces in the TV broadcast announcing their being banned

Chap V
The angle of the raindrops hitting the puddle & the round splashes (Rorschach's hat reflected at the very top)
The blood splash across Budda's face on the poster
The puddle splash on the triangle on the side of the Pyramid Deliveries truck
The cloud in front of the sun in the pirate comic
The red stain & black blotches on the yellow sail of the raft in the comic
The strand of hair in front of the sailor's right eye in the comic
The blood splash on Veidt's buttonhole flower after the shooting
The setting sun in the pirate comic
The blood coming out of the shark's right eye in the comic
That Budda poster again!
More raindrops in puddles & round shaped splashes
The Gordian Lock on Moloch's door - kinda smiley looking with X eyes
Blood on Rorschach's face as his mask comes off

Chap VI
Blood running from the dog's head
The splash of the fruit shoved in young Walter's face
The cigarette being shoved in the kid's right eye
Dripping splashes inside and reflections on the doctor's Veidt brand coffee jug (the last drips also forming a cute little steaming Rorschach blot!)
The light shining on the doctor's chest as steam rises from his coffee
Steam rising from the doctor's coffee mug from above
The doctor's dinner table from above

Chap VII
The opening pages, reflection of the Owlship in the goggles with a finger mark smear in the dust over the right 'eye'/window
Hey - it's THAT bloodstained smiley badge again, in flashback!
More smeared goggles
Reflections in the Owlship window/eye
Reflection in Dan's glasses as he cleans the lens with a cloth
Close-up of Dan's glasses
More Nite Owl II goggle reflections
Red smoke rising in front of the Owlship as it hovers in front of the moon

Chap VIII
Smoke across young Comedian's face in the photograph, opening page
Plastic loop on Hollis's beer passing across eye of owl ornament
Shadow across the sailor's wife's face in the pirate comic
Reflections inside the Owlship
Seymour's smiley T-shirt in the newspaper office!
Streak of light across the face of the missing writer in the photograph held by Seymour
More Owlship window reflections
Splash of pumpkin juice over the right eye of the Halloween Jack O' Lantern
Hair and splash in front of the eye of the electrocuted convict as he falls
Hair in front of the sailor's right eye in the pirate comic
Hair in front of Hollis's right eye before he's hit with the statue and killed
Blood splash over Nite Owl's face in the photo in the broken frame
Blood splash over eye of broken owl ornament on floor
Blood splash on Hollis’s trophy - ‘Ingratitude’
Only the right eye of the pirate Trick or Treat kid is visible

Chap IX
Smiley face reflection in the spinning perfume bottle
The smiley badge-blood shape of the perfume coming out of the end of the bottle
Young Laurie's reflection in the snow globe
The smiley face shape in Dr Manhattan's flying glass construction
Water poured in front of Laurie's eye (her left one, though!)
Blake's smiley badge at the party
Strand of hair in front of Laurie's eye at the party
Splash of drink onto Blake's badge
Another snow globe reflection
Laurie's reflection in the perfume bottle, the 'N' at the blood splash angle
Smiley face on Mars (which is REAL, incidentally!)

Chap X
Smiley face radar screen, opening pages (blip eyes, sweep 'blood splash', light reflection mouth)
Streak of cloud in front of moon in New York sky
More Owlship windows
Strip of underwater junk in front of Owlship's right window/'eye'
Glowing light of harbour buoy as Owlship rises out of river
Hair in front of sailor's right eye in pirate comic
Seymour's smiley face T-shirt again!

Chap XI
Opening pages - the shape left on the glass where the snow has melted away is exactly the same as the blood on the smiley badge
The hair across the sailor's right eye in the pirate comic
Veidt's dinner plate & angle of the fork
Shape of blood coming out of Nite Owl's nose when hit with flying lid
Shape of blood splash on Nite Owl's coat after hit in face with the lid
Comedian's smiley badge again in flashback, also being splashed with blood
Comedian's bloody scarred face
Splash of blood across Veidt's face as he throws Comedian through the window
Veidt’s twin clock faces showing different time zones
The moon and the glare of the street lamp in New York prior to the teleportation
The black shape formed against the white background as Bernard the news vendor and Bernie the pirate comic kid embrace each other - exactly the same as the blood splash on the smiley badge

Chap XII
The shape of the blood splash above the Pale Horse poster
The plug socket on the broken spark hydrant cover, on the ground in front of the 'alien' and the dead newspaper seller/pirate comic kid
The opening of the tunnel with snow blowing across it
Tears in Veidt's eyes
Tears running down Rorschach's face
The shape of the bloody stain left in the snow after Rorschach is disintegrated
Smoke rising from Rorschach’s remains passing the lit tunnel entrance
Veidt's spherical model of the galaxy
The ketchup splashed on Seymour's smiley face T-shirt

 

[DavidTyler]

Much simpler question: Moore originally wanted to use the Charleton characters and couldn't because DC had just gotten the rights to them and had other plans. So, in still wanting to use them, he created their dopplegangers for Watchmen. Now, some of them I recognize easily - Dr. Manhattan is Capt Atom, Niteowl is Blue Beetle, Rorschack is The Question - but I don't recognize the others. Who were the Commedian, Silk Spectre, Ozymandius, and some of the others taken from?

 

[Shmoil]

Also for the smiley face, and this may have been mentioned, but one of the main things it symbolizes is the doomsday clock being set at 5 minutes to midnight. The angle of the blood splatter is the same as the minute hand at 5 to midnight.

The smiley at the end simply shows that they are no further from doomsday than before, probably because the kid wearing the shirt is about to publish Rorschach's journal.

 

[DavidTyler]

Much simpler question: Moore originally wanted to use the Charleton characters and couldn't because DC had just gotten the rights to them and had other plans. So, in still wanting to use them, he created their dopplegangers for Watchmen. Now, some of them I recognize easily - Dr. Manhattan is Capt Atom, Niteowl is Blue Beetle, Rorschack is The Question - but I don't recognize the others. Who were the Commedian, Silk Spectre, Ozymandius, and some of the others taken from?

Ignore this. I just found an interview with Moore where he breaks it all out.

Apparently, the Commedian was originally the Peacemaker and Ozmandius was a non costumed character called Thunderbolt.

Silk Spectre, to summarize Moore, was a generic female superhero.

 

[redhawk23]

along with others have said on the smiley pin front, it also represents, as far as i understood, the doomsday clock motiff that was also recurrent throughout the story. If you look at the first time is shows the Doomsday clock its pointing at the 10 position and the placement of the blood stain roughly reproduces this.