Reed Richards" "don't Make Me Beg."????

[thewhitequeen]

What in gods name are you smoking?

truth

 

[Kitsune]

truth

Well cut it out, you know that stuff will rot your brain.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Well, this goes back all the way to the beggining. Starting with him cloning Thor. Yeah, Reeds been out of character lately, but this issue really didn't make him look like a wimp in my eyes.

Well he is doing things and the only reason thus far given is "I don't want to end up going to jail like my uncle". Which is definitely a cowardly and wimping stance to take. Reed has always placed his family and morals first. He has done things before, such as let Galactus live, that caused him great consequence...and even facing trail and emminent death he did not back down or cower, and that was the Sh'iar...not America.

So yes, he has become a wimp. He would never do anything knowing it would harm his friends...he freed the Hulk from a kangaroo court. This new Reed "I'm Iron Man b*tch" Richards is just as much out of character as Peter Parker...and for the same reason. Compromising obvious moral standings to avoid being placed in a N-Zone prison.

 

[Darthphere]

I thought Reed's justification that the law is the law and we should follow it, not that he was afraid to go to jail like his uncle.

 

[thewhitequeen]

Well cut it out, you know that stuff will rot your brain.

Ha! I didn't mean he was smoking truth, but rather "Truth" to what La The Darkman said about that guy's "rugged=cool and Reed's a cool/good guy" thing didn't make any sense.

 

[La The Darkman]

I thought Reed's justification that the law is the law and we should follow it, not that he was afraid to go to jail like his uncle.

That was pretty much exactly the reason giving.......which is stupid.

Ha! I didn't mean he was smoking truth, but rather "Truth" to what La The Darkman said about that guy's "rugged=cool and Reed's a cool/good guy" thing didn't make any sense.

I knew what ya meant. lol

But yeah, someone clearly has Tony Stark and Reed Richards mixed up.

 

[Sardaukar]

Reed might not have always been a man's man, but throughout this event he has been systematically *****fied. It wasn't necessarily the begging part that was strange and irritating (though it was), it was the entire scene -- He is the brains behind Hill's career right now, and yet she gets to order him to make a prisoner suffer? -- and it was the entire scene in addition to all the other crap that's been going on.

A man stands up for his beliefs. He doesn't kowtow to the government because he's afraid of them. A man knows his own mind and defends his actions. He doesn't sigh and cower when his wife calls him a Nazi. A man isn't afraid to fight for what's right, even at the cost of his own well-being. He doesn't let traumatized patients be tortured further and tell us McCarthyism is good. These are all things that Reed didn't do before this event started, and now he's been systematically doing.

I've always thought that Reed was very manly...again, pre-Civil War. He was smart, and determined, and powerful, and proactive, and successful, a good friend, and had a supermodel actress wife who he loved and protected and had sex with him on a steady basis, and was a good father to his children. What other criterion do we need? And what's this lumberjack nonsense? Who actually looks at a lumberjack these days and thinks, "Now there's a man's man!"? People look at lumberjacks and laugh.

I wouldn't call Wolverine a man's man at all, I'd call him a thug. Sadly, it seems that not a lot of people can tell the difference most of the time.

Good post. I agree with it. Reed is the leader of the Fantastic Four, and is one of the main "father figures" of the Marvel Universe, whom just about everybody and their dog looks up to. Science is his forte, but also the responsible application of science. In fact, Reed fights against those who use science irresponsibly. He's become what he hates in Civil War, on the whim of writers who don't respect the character.

 

[BrianWilly]

I thought Reed's justification that the law is the law and we should follow it, not that he was afraid to go to jail like his uncle.

Well, it sorta depends on who you like more: Millar/Jenkins, or JMS.

According to Millar and Jenkins!
...Reed is going with registration because it has been scientifically proven that it's the better course of action that will result in fewer casualties.

According to JMS!
...Reed is going with registration because McCarthyism ROCKS and he's pissing his unstable pants at the idea of his family going against the government.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Ha! I didn't mean he was smoking truth, but rather "Truth" to what La The Darkman said about that guy's "rugged=cool and Reed's a cool/good guy" thing didn't make any sense.

Wow, you just combat everything .

He gave his reason, as long winded and non sensical as it was. And that was that his Uncle went to jail for being a communist. And had he followed the law he wouldn't. Meaning his grand reason behind all this was "my Uncle should have followed the law, and if I don't I'll end up like him...a broken man". He may have said the "law is the law" but he came to that conclusion based on his Uncle going to jail and the consequences it brought his Uncle. No other rationale for that position was given.

Which has to be the dumbest thing Marvel ever published, because in that grand story they never once bothered to explain what exactly his Uncle did. McCarthyism wasn't a law, it was a countrywide delusional paranoia...the only thing they proved his Uncle did by that story was that he was an excentric english professor...wow, never saw that one coming.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

I've already given a much more reasonable, realistic view for Richards that made sense with who he was, unfortunately, Marvel hardly has the understanding for such character's potential as Reed. They kind of just lump him in with normal people, which is truly unfortunate.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

I've already given a much more reasonable, realistic view for Richards that made sense with who he was, unfortunately, Marvel hardly has the understanding for such character's potential as Reed. They kind of just lump him in with normal people, which is truly unfortunate.

Unfortunately for Civil War they decided to write him as the "all science and numbers and no heart" Reed Richards. Which is totally out of character. Considering Reed's past actions he hardly just follows logic.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

They pushed him as a lot more driven, and caught up in things, which is very normal for high level genius types. And then add in that he just went through a traumatic event, it would easily make sense for him to recluse into his scientific endeavours in a way a man drowns himself in alchohol. He's just swept up in his work, and now, he's far more so.

 

[KingOfDreams]

Fantastic Four was consistantly my favorite Marvel comic for years. Not anymore. But part of me thinks that writing Reed and others out of character in Civil War is deliberate to show the effects of the war and polarizing it is and how illogical some people's justification becomes in such a situation.

 

[BrianWilly]

Yeah, 'cause lord knows Richards has never been in a war before.

Oh wait...

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Not really the same thing there Willy. That's kind of pulling it out of context. Almost like comparing the North Korean/South Korean war to World War 2.

 

[BrianWilly]

So is saying "War always polarizes things and makes people act illogically." Sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesn't. If Richards can be relatively unaffected by World War II and yet be thrown completely off-kilter by Civil War, obviously it's not the concept of war itself that's throwing him off.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

No, I just don't think you're looking at the actions that has gone on INSIDE of the Civil War. In WW2, he had a clear enemy to work against. I know that if even I had a friend to work against, I could do it, and do it well, but it would never sit with me in a stable fashion. Especially if my husband just flat out abandoned me to join the other side because he felt that I was a horrible person. At least in WW2, you saw death, but it wasn't death by his creations, and it wasn't his FRIENDS death by his creations.

Like I said, context. It's not a technicality, it's the entire idea.

 

[BrianWilly]

So then it's not war, specifically, that polarizes Reed. Which still strikes the original point moot.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Not really. It's escalated by the sheer intensity of the constant conflict. Hence, war. So the point isn't moot, the context just wasn't laid out correctly. If your point is not all wars change all people, you'd be right. But it wasn't the point. The point was THIS war changed him. It's like how in America, Vietnam vets had several more, and different, problems over WW2 vets.

I might just not understand, I've never really thought of war as the defining event of things, just the events within that determine it. But like I said, I might just not understand what you're trying to tell me.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Reed has always been in support of Mutants and the Incredible Hulk...both of which were accused of "breaking the law".

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Agreed. But that's kind of unfair to say. He was against the law because he felt it was unfair, though some of it was biased, since Bruce kept running from the law and friends, rather than staying with the heavier brained heros like Reed or Tony, and let them try to help him.

But still. Just because he went against the law once, doesn't mean he's always against the law in similar situations.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Agreed. But that's kind of unfair to say. He was against the law because he felt it was unfair, though some of it was biased, since Bruce kept running from the law and friends, rather than staying with the heavier brained heros like Reed or Tony, and let them try to help him.

But still. Just because he went against the law once, doesn't mean he's always against the law in similar situations.

However this situation is nearly exactly the same if not less exposive than Mutant Registration and Genosha...both of which he did not support.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Eh. Not really. One was registering them based on their genetic makeup. The original SHRA was about volunteerism. And the later SHRA was instituted to a draft in response to the growing anti-SHRA forces. So he's not really supporting the same thing. It just feels that way to some, I guess.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Eh. Not really. One was registering them based on their genetic makeup.

This is based on whether you have superpowers or not. Even Jewel, who was retired, was being forced to join in NA.

The original SHRA was about volunteerism.

There is nothing "voluntary" about join or go sit in a cell in the negative zone until you do.

And the later SHRA was instituted to a draft in response to the growing anti-SHRA forces. So he's not really supporting the same thing. It just feels that way to some, I guess.

In Marvel, the Government mobilized two mutant task forces to deal with Mutants. Mystique's Freedom Force and Cyclops' X-Factor...one was more benign (X-Factor...although turned out pretty underhanded)...so in fact it's pretty close to exactly the same.

Hell Sentinels are practically an analogue to cape killers...except with a nicer sounding name.

 

[BrianWilly]

Not really. It's escalated by the sheer intensity of the constant conflict. Hence, war. So the point isn't moot, the context just wasn't laid out correctly. If your point is not all wars change all people, you'd be right. But it wasn't the point. The point was THIS war changed him. It's like how in America, Vietnam vets had several more, and different, problems over WW2 vets.

I might just not understand, I've never really thought of war as the defining event of things, just the events within that determine it. But like I said, I might just not understand what you're trying to tell me.

I'm saying that if the events within each individual war can be as different as night and day such as, say, Vietnam and WW2, then I don't think it's accurate to say that war causes polarization (which would be generalizing) so much as those individual events cause polarization (which would not be generalizing). Those individual events being exactly what you described: fighting friends, alienating spouses, betrayals, tough choices, etc etc. Which can be a result of war, but not always. War is tough and brings about a lot of bad things, but those "bad things" are as varied and myriad as the wars themselves are. So if the original point was that Marvel wanted to show that wars cause polarization, then it's a bit of a skewed point.