Revelations...of the US

[Malice]

I have been thinking, and thanks to a podcast....It really hit me.

Most large empires didn't collapse due in a big loud war or fight....they usually went quietly into the night due to financial constraints.

The US simply put, spends too much money, and offers to much money to to many people....the US is starting to really strain under its financial burden.
It needs to end.

Department of Agriculture - 94.758 billion
Department of Commerce - 8.223 billion
Department of Defense - 651.163 billion (doesnt look to include Iraq and Afganistan)
Department of Education - 95.340 billion
Department of Energy - 24.725 billion
Department of Health and Human Services - 736.872 billion (medicare and medicaid being 90% of this)
Department of Homeland Security - 44.309 billion
Department of Housing and Urban Development - 158.269 billion
Department of the Interior - 10.525 billion
Department of Justice - 26.625 billion
Department of Labor - 54.213 billion
Department of State and other International Programs - 39.333 billion
Department of Treasury - 67.286 billion
Department of Transportation - 273 billion
Department of Veteran Affairs - 342 billion
Corps of Engineers - Civil Works - 19 million
EPA - 7.999 billion
NASA - 18.137 billion
National Science Foundation - 6.414 billion
Small Business Foundation - 22.803 billion
Social Security Administration - 694.804 billion

We really need to get spending under control.....
To me...we need to start with:
1) Department of Defense - 651.163 billion
2) Department of Health and Human Services - 736.872 billion
3) Social Security Administration - 694.804 billion
4) Department of Veteran Affairs - 342 billion
5) Department of Housing and Urban Development - 158.269 billion

 

[Hobgoblin]

Agreed. We as citizens need to cut back. Save a little more, spend a little less. I'm not sure anything can be done about government spending. People have said for years that government needs less spending but nothing happens. Heck, I'm not even sure if the average person is willing to be more frugal. We've gotten spoiled.

 

[Malice]

Agreed. We as citizens need to cut back. Save a little more, spend a little less. I'm not sure anything can be done about government spending. People have said for years that government needs less spending but nothing happens. Heck, I'm not even sure if the average person is willing to be more frugal. We've gotten spoiled.

Absolutely....
The moment it comes that I need to cut back...you damn well know, I will start killing costs real quick.

 

[Hobgoblin]

I gotta say I could save more money than I do, but I stay on the budget. Thats pretty different from playing the market recklessly or being in debt. I just dont understand what goes through people's minds when they get so far in debt. Is the average credit card debt still $8,000?

 

[Paradoxium]

Notice who created these giant ineffectual and inefficient bureaucratic "departments"?

Department of Housing and Urban Development (Johnson)
Social Security Administration (FDR)

Clinton was a Democrat without Congressional support. Carter's arrival was at a time where enormous "change" was not what people wanted (post-Vietnam). So these two Democrats were somewhat neutered. Though Carter did still manage to "give" the American people a couple of bureaucratic mollasses.

Department of Energy (Carter)
Department of Education (Carter)
Department of Health and Human Services (Carter)

Obama is going to be the next Lyndon Johnson, not JFK. Unlike say Clinton or Carter, this guy is a unrestrained socialist with the support of Congress. Talk like a moderate spend like a socialist. What a great time to install a socialist as a president especially in a fiscal crisis. Not that McCain is a great alternative either if it makes anyone feel better.

When it rains it pours.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Notice who created these giant ineffectual and inefficient bureaucratic "departments"?

Department of Housing and Urban Development (Johnson)
Social Security Administration (FDR)

Clinton was a Democrat without Congressional support. Carter's arrival was at a time where enormous "change" was not what people wanted (post-Vietnam). So these two Democrats were somewhat neutered. Though Carter did still manage to "give" the American people a couple of bureaucratic mollasses.

Department of Energy (Carter)
Department of Education (Carter)
Department of Health and Human Services (Carter)

Obama is going to be the next Lyndon Johnson, not JFK. Unlike say Clinton or Carter, this guy is a unrestrained socialist with the support of Congress. Talk like a moderate spend like a socialist. What a great time to install a socialist as a president especially in a fiscal crisis. Not that McCain is a great alternative either if it makes anyone feel better.

When it rains it pours.

Lets try and keep the conversation about facts, not opinions. What can we do about the financial situation, besides point fingers across the aisle?

 

[Paradoxium]

The people who created those departments - are facts. I am focusing on the Democrats now because frankly that is what the next president will be. So you need to extrapolate from that.

With that all said and done, you have two fiscal liberals running for presidents. How is that going to solve anything Demogoblin? To solve this financial crisis is to do your own part to save and be fiscally responsible. That is really the only solution. You people keep relying on some external solution, instead of an internal one.

Or the more radical solution is what Machiavelli states in The Prince (or is it the Discourses). You need someone to refind the Republic, who is willing to "kill the sons of Brutus". Neither candidates will do this.

 

[Mikelus]

Obama a socialist? What a joke, he's just the typical social-democrat (center-left), I guess you were "lucky" since Hillary is more to the left than Obama is.

Here's the definition of socialism:

so·cial·ism n.
1. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.
2. The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which collective ownership of the economy under the dictatorship of the proletariat has not yet been successfully achieved.

Cuba is a socialist country, Castro is your typical socialist leader, Obama would be a conservative in comparison. For some extremists, the US has become the United Socialist States of America (USSA), which is not really the case, but some people are irrational and get carry away with their opinions.

Back on topic, not only the US has to cut spending, most European countries have the same problem, too much bureaucracy is not good for the economy, we all agree on this one.

 

[Paradoxium]

Obama a socialist? What a joke, he's just the typical social-democrat (center-left), I guess you were "lucky" since Hillary is more to the left than Obama is.

Here's the definition of socialism:



Cuba is a socialist country, Castro is your typical socialist leader, Obama would be a conservative in comparison. For some extremists, the US has become the United Socialist States of America (USSA), which is not really the case, but some people are irrational and get carry away with their opinions.

Back on topic, not only the US has to cut spending, most European countries have the same problem, too much bureaucracy is not good for the economy, we all agree on this one.

Well isn't it mister quote something but does not pay attention to his own quotes.

Please read it again: "The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which collective ownership of the economy under the dictatorship of the proletariat has not yet been successfully achieved."

It's called a dichotomy. Overweight and Obese are both "states of being fat", ergo socialism.

Liberalism has been long perverted anyways, it resembles nothing like its original and classical inception. Socialists is an ugly word in America, that's why they don't like saying they are socialists but is more than happy to act like one.

Upton Sinclair, letter to Norman Thomas (25th September, 1951)

The American People will take Socialism, but they won't take the label. I certainly proved it in the case of EPIC. Running on the Socialist ticket I got 60,000 votes, and running on the slogan to 'End Poverty in California' I got 879,000. I think we simply have to recognize the fact that our enemies have succeeded in spreading the Big Lie. There is no use attacking it by a front attack, it is much better to out-flank them.

Anyways my assertion with the problem is, discussing some solution of how it ought to be will mean very little as both candidates won't subscribe to fiscal conservatism to begin with. It's redundant (I don't want to be a killjoy - but it just is). The later two alternative is to either change and reboot the system or do something on your own.

 

[lazur]

I have been thinking, and thanks to a podcast....It really hit me.

Most large empires didn't collapse due in a big loud war or fight....they usually went quietly into the night due to financial constraints.

The US simply put, spends too much money, and offers to much money to to many people....the US is starting to really strain under its financial burden.
It needs to end.

Department of Agriculture - 94.758 billion
Department of Commerce - 8.223 billion
Department of Defense - 651.163 billion (doesnt look to include Iraq and Afganistan)
Department of Education - 95.340 billion
Department of Energy - 24.725 billion
Department of Health and Human Services - 736.872 billion (medicare and medicaid being 90% of this)
Department of Homeland Security - 44.309 billion
Department of Housing and Urban Development - 158.269 billion
Department of the Interior - 10.525 billion
Department of Justice - 26.625 billion
Department of Labor - 54.213 billion
Department of State and other International Programs - 39.333 billion
Department of Treasury - 67.286 billion
Department of Transportation - 273 billion
Department of Veteran Affairs - 342 billion
Corps of Engineers - Civil Works - 19 million
EPA - 7.999 billion
NASA - 18.137 billion
National Science Foundation - 6.414 billion
Small Business Foundation - 22.803 billion
Social Security Administration - 694.804 billion

We really need to get spending under control.....
To me...we need to start with:
1) Department of Defense - 651.163 billion
2) Department of Health and Human Services - 736.872 billion
3) Social Security Administration - 694.804 billion
4) Department of Veteran Affairs - 342 billion
5) Department of Housing and Urban Development - 158.269 billion

Of our total 60 trillion dollar debt, nearly 50 trillion is spent by our government on entitlement programs. These entitlement programs will be the end of our country unless or until people realize that the government's role is NOT to provide entitlement programs directly to the American people, but rather to provide incentives to the free market to fill in these needs. Just look at what a failure our government is at even funding Social Security, and all they have to do is collect the money and put it into a freaking account! But what does our government do? They spend it, or if you're Bill Clinton, you 'borrow' from the Social Security fund to pay down the deficit and then take credit for transferring money from one part of the government to another, to say nothing about robbing the American people out of retirement funds to the extent that Social Security is now considered bust for anyone my age.

These entitlement programs need to go away - not in the near term (you can't just yank benefits out from under people) but someone needs to start talking about how to privatize them because our government and our country CANNOT afford them any longer.

And for those on-board with all of this entitlement garbage, ask yourself how relevant entitlement programs will be when our country goes bankrupt, our currency goes the way of the peso, and people don't receive *anything* at all...

 

[Hobgoblin]

We really need to get spending under control.....
To me...we need to start with:
1) Department of Defense - 651.163 billion
2) Department of Health and Human Services - 736.872 billion
3) Social Security Administration - 694.804 billion
4) Department of Veteran Affairs - 342 billion
5) Department of Housing and Urban Development - 158.269 billion

These two particularly confuse me. They keep saying that social security will be dead by the time the people who put so much money into it will need it. Where the blazes did it all go? Where did $695 billion go?

Veterans Affairs? What does this department even do? Why are so many vets homeless? Why do vets coming home from Iraq have to put up with the BS at Walter Reed? Where did that $342 billion go?

 

[Malice]

These two particularly confuse me. They keep saying that social security will be dead by the time the people who put so much money into it will need it. Where the blazes did it all go? Where did $695 billion go?

Veterans Affairs? What does this department even do? Why are so many vets homeless? Why do vets coming home from Iraq have to put up with the BS at Walter Reed? Where did that $342 billion go?

Welcome to govt run health care in this country.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Welcome to govt run health care in this country.

Yeah you're right. Between Obama and Hillary wanting national health care (granted Obama wanted it on a smaller scale than Hillary) and John "There will be more wars" McCain, we're still going to have a president spending us into oblivion.

 

[bell110]

Unfortunately, I'm starting to think the collapse of America will be in my life time. Basically, no one is going to give up their entitlements, and at the same time, no one wants to pay taxes for them either.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Unfortunately, I'm starting to think the collapse of America will be in my life time. Basically, no one is going to give up their entitlements, and at the same time, no one wants to pay taxes for them either.

And the Chinese and Japanese own us in terms of debt.

 

[Malice]

I am not making this a political thread...I don't want any of them in power.

I want myself, frankly I don't trust anyone else anymore.
I would probably be the most hated president in all time, because so many people would loose entitlements for me..

Social Security would be 70 years old, maybe 72.
Medicare and Medicaid I would really need to look closer, I frankly don't know enough about them.

I WOULD take those entitlement programs and morph them into some sort of public works projects. Basically, if you are homeless, and want a job, here you go.

Most likely though....I would have EACH department come to me, justifying why they need to keep the programs. SIMPLE AS THAT.

Department of Agriculture - 94.758 billion (I am sure I can cut a bunch in this)
Department of Commerce - 8.223 billion
Department of Defense - 651.163 billion (doesnt look to include Iraq and Afganistan)
Department of Education - 95.340 billion
Department of Energy - 24.725 billion
Department of Health and Human Services - 736.872 billion (I am sure I can cut a bunch in this)
Department of Homeland Security - 44.309 billion
Department of Housing and Urban Development - 158.269 billion (I am sure I can cut a bunch in this)
Department of the Interior - 10.525 billion
Department of Justice - 26.625 billion
Department of Labor - 54.213 billion (I am sure I can cut a bunch in this)
Department of State and other International Programs - 39.333 billion
Department of Treasury - 67.286 billion
Department of Transportation - 273 billion
Department of Veteran Affairs - 342 billion (I am sure I can cut a bunch in this)

 

[The Senator]

The Department of Defense budget needs to be cut in half.

The Department of Homeland Security needs to be dissolved or merged with the DoD.

The Department of Education needs to be cut in half.

Social security needs to be privatized for those who make over $100k annually.

And, by scrapping welfare programs as they are and replacing it with a public works program, you can cut infrastructure costs and eliminate free handouts to people who do not deserve them. People should have to work for their money, or have a legitimate excuse as to why they aren't [and being lazy is not a medical reason for not being able to work].

Plus, instead of creating a new health care program, people should be able to buy into Medicaid or else seek a private insurer on their own.

 

[Malice]

I pretty much agree on all points jman....It wont be pretty....but boy it will work

 

[lazur]

The Department of Defense budget needs to be cut in half.

Why? What role should the U.S. play on the world stage, in your opinion? Should we not have the most powerful military in the world?

 

[Malice]

Dept of Defense is good, just needs to be paired down, due to the budget constraints...

As I have matured and gotten a little older, I honestly believe we need to get our butts out of everyone else's business....

 

[The Senator]

Why? What role should the U.S. play on the world stage, in your opinion? Should we not have the most powerful military in the world?

We do not need to be dumping billions of dollars into hiring private contractors to build unnecessary missile defense shields in foreign countries. We do not need MULTIPLE military bases in foreign countries. We do not need to be the world's police; the military should be there for DEFENSE purposes ONLY.

I want the United States military to stop invading sovereign nations and building bases on land which other countries have declared sacred and infallible. I would like politicians to stop tossing around jingoistic rhetoric in regards to countries such as Russia, China, and Iran. I would like us to focus on DEFENDING this country from foreign attacks, rather than provoking other nations and entities to attack us. That is the role the U.S. military should play; and it could be just as powerful, if not more, if we stopped dumping billions into maintaining bases in parts of the world which do not want us to have bases there, as well as defense projects which serve no other purpose than to piss other countries off, and focused solely on domestic defense.

 

[lazur]

We do not need to be dumping billions of dollars into hiring private contractors to build unnecessary missile defense shields in foreign countries. We do not need MULTIPLE military bases in foreign countries. We do not need to be the world's police; the military should be there for DEFENSE purposes ONLY.

I want the United States military to stop invading sovereign nations and building bases on land which other countries have declared sacred and infallible. I would like politicians to stop tossing around jingoistic rhetoric in regards to countries such as Russia, China, and Iran. I would like us to focus on DEFENDING this country from foreign attacks, rather than provoking other nations and entities to attack us. That is the role the U.S. military should play; and it could be just as powerful, if not more, if we stopped dumping billions into maintaining bases in parts of the world which do not want us to have bases there, as well as defense projects which serve no other purpose than to piss other countries off, and focused solely on domestic defense.

I don't disagree with you. I think the notion that we shouldn't be the world's police given that we have treaties which essentially require it is a little bit idealistic, but I don't think you're wrong.

If only our politicians would take a similar position...

 

[Paradoxium]

For any of you folks familiar with military tactics, there are ways to maintain and increase "potency" while having a lower budget. It has a lot to do (very broad generalization here) - with how the American military approaches objectives. Less blowing **** up, more surgical and better training in skills. It would also require a complete reordering of the command line to something more decentralized from the classic top down chain of command. But this will also require smarter soldiers.

Consider integrating some of the Eastern and even Middle Eastern tactics. I think in the end, if you do this (even if you retain the same budget) you would minimize the loss of life. Both in the soldier and collateral damage.

I think this is one of those solutions that will appeal to both conservatives and liberals. But it would be tough to change the status quo of the military.

 

[Hobgoblin]

For any of you folks familiar with military tactics, there are ways to maintain and increase "potency" while having a lower budget. It has a lot to do (very broad generalization here) - with how the American military approaches objectives. Less blowing **** up, more surgical and better training in skills. It would also require a complete reordering of the command line to something more decentralized from the classic top down chain of command. But this will also require smarter soldiers.

Consider integrating some of the Eastern and even Middle Eastern tactics. I think in the end, if you do this (even if you retain the same budget) you would minimize the loss of life. Both in the soldier and collateral damage.

I think this is one of those solutions that will appeal to both conservatives and liberals. But it would be tough to change the status quo of the military.

I gotta say the idea of "less blowing **** up, more surgical skills" sounds fantastic. If only this idea would be implemented.