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Saudi cleric urges Muslim women to cover up all but one eye

:eek:

I'm so scared! The big, bad Muslims are going to destroy all of society, because all Muslims are evil terrorists who drink the blood of westerners and crash airplanes into tall buildings!! We should run for our lives do everything we can to prevent people from practicing whatever religions they want to!!!1!!one!!!11!1!!

:dry:

As I was saying, once Sharia law is given an edge it becomes the wedge and ends up displacing the proceeding law and constitution.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/jul/04/law.islam
 
Seriously if Sharia makes to North America officially, choose the wall. There's a small chance the dynamite won't go off.

What.

Islamic Fundamentalists and those who support Sharia haven't really been known to compromise.

History teaches that whereever Sharia makes an edge, it becomes the wedge and ends up replacing whichever law or constitution preceded it.

The.

Let's just say that where Muslims have become significant, they usually change the culture to something they like.

You might not like that in the end.

Hell? What is this the Pat Robertson Izlaam 101?

Firstly, we haven't been prominent in the west since...well, it's been a while, unfortunately, and if I remember correctly we dragged you blood letters out of the dark ages, so we're not all that bad.

Secondly, Sharia law gets it's foundation from the Qur'an so all laws have to work in accordance to it and has to pass approval from the Islamic community. For instance, let's take the issue of Homosexuality and Iran or Saudi Arabia, since you brought it up earlier and it's of importance to Jman. The Qur'an states that it is a "religion of nature" and like the other Abrahamic faiths issues a condemnation of the act of homosexuality, but it DOES NOT offer a worldly punishment for those who commit it and states that ONLY G-d has the right to judge ANYONE whether you are Homosexual, Atheist, whatever. The Qur'an clearly affirms, over and over, the freedom of conscious and freedom of faith and worship.

"Sharia" law, like the one carried out in Iran doesn't advocate the killing of an innocent person whether you are homosexual or not. It's wholly un-Islamic, and there are many, many, Islamic jurists that fight these types of rulings, but when you have dictatorships or loony extremists set-up who set their own agendas, how are you to expect fairness?

I wish I had the energy to go into depth, but that's the best crash course I can give right now. If anythings unclear I'd be more than happy to answer questions or concerns tomorrow, but now I need some sleep!

As for now, good night!

:)
 
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Firstly, we haven't been prominent in the west since...well, it's been a while, unfortunately, and if I remember correctly we dragged you blood letters out of the dark ages, so we're not all that bad.

Secondly, Sharia law gets it's foundation from the Qur'an so all laws have to work in accordance to it and has to pass approval from the Islamic community. For instance, let's take the issue of Homosexuality and Iran or Saudi Arabia, since you brought it up earlier and it's of importance to Jman. The Qur'an states that it is a "religion of nature" and like the other Abrahamic faiths issues a condemnation of the act of homosexuality, but it DOES NOT offer a worldly punishment for those who commit it and states that ONLY G-d has the right to judge ANYONE whether you are Homosexual, Atheist, whatever. The Qur'an clearly affirms, over and over, the freedom of conscious and freedom of faith and worship.

"Sharia" law, like the one carried out in Iran doesn't advocate the killing of an innocent person whether you are homosexual or not. It's wholly un-Islamic, and there are many, many, Islamic jurists that fight these types of rulings, but when you have dictatorships or loony extremists set-up who set their own agendas, how are you to expect fairness?

I wish I had the energy to go into depth, but that's the best crash course I can give right now. If anythings unclear I'd be more than happy to answer questions or concerns tomorrow, but now I need some sleep!

As for now, good night!

:)

You can tell me about how Islam was in those countries 800 years ago, you're correct.

However, I have to look at where Islam is in too many places in the ME, where it is the most prominent religion and I don't care for what I see and unless it things change, I don't want it anywhere near me, for as long as possible.

The fact that most Muslims in Western society are relatively peaceful, law abiding, and good people doesn't change that for me and probably never will.
 
You can tell me about how Islam was in those countries 800 years ago, you're correct.

However, I have to look at where Islam is in too many places in the ME, where it is the most prominent religion and I don't care for what I see and unless it things change, I don't want it anywhere near me, for as long as possible.

The fact that most Muslims in Western society are relatively peaceful, law abiding, and good people doesn't change that for me and probably never will.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

So, even though most Muslims are peaceful, and the only ones who have contorted Sharia law happen to be a part of brutal regimes in countries such as Iran and Saudi Arabia, you are totally opposed to having Muslims dominate any part of Western governments?

Do you have any idea how xenophobic and downright ignorant that mentality is? The Muslim leaders you are referring to have raped and contorted Islam in the countries they govern. As Superman4ever pointed out, the reason why Sharia law is so brutal in these countries has to do with how governments have interpreted the laws over the past several centuries.

Western Muslims are RADICALLY different from the power-hungry dictators which dominate the Middle East. We have two Muslim Congressmen in the United States (and there might be a third this November, s-c-a-r-y :eek:), and NEITHER of them have pushed for legislation which would enact Sharia law; in fact, Keith Ellison, the first Muslim Congressman to EVER serve in the House of Representatives, has gone on record to say that he opposes the interpretations of Sharia law which have had detrimental affects on several countries in the Middle East.

So, really, I do not understand why you CARE so much that the United States may see a rise in Muslims over the coming decades. There is NO WAY any radicals will slip into Congress; there is NO WAY Sharia Law will become the "law of the land"; there is NO WAY our society will crumble in the process. This country shouldn't fear Muslims, it is the sort of ignorance you have projected in your above post which makes me despise the post-9/11 mentality which exists among too many Westerners.

Heck, you want to know what makes me MORE afraid than possibly seeing an influx of Muslim politicians and leaders? The possibility that we'll see a Christofascist such as Mitt Romney or Bobby Jindal or Mike Huckabee become President, and they'll push to write discrimination into the Constitution in more ways than one. Because that is a LIKELY scenario, that a charismatic Christian male will come into office sometime in the next decade and decimate our country's laws by projecting HIS views and HIS beliefs into every aspect of government, from bills to Constitutional amendments to Supreme Court appointments. That is a reality we have had to FEAR for years and years, and thankfully our Congress has been resistant enough to knock down many of the Christofascist efforts of George W. Bush over the past eight years.

Yeah... to me, Christianity and Islam are one in the same, in terms of hierarchy and viciousness. The difference between the two, however, is that Christianity has been serving as an oppressive religion in this country for way too long, and Islam will never become so prominent in my lifetime.

Open your eyes.
 
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

So, even though most Muslims are peaceful, and the only ones who have contorted Sharia law happen to be a part of brutal regimes in countries such as Iran and Saudi Arabia, you are totally opposed to having Muslims dominate any part of Western governments?

Do you have any idea how xenophobic and downright ignorant that mentality is? The Muslim leaders you are referring to have raped and contorted Islam in the countries they govern. As Superman4ever pointed out, the reason why Sharia law is so brutal in these countries has to do with how governments have interpreted the laws over the past several centuries.

Western Muslims are RADICALLY different from the power-hungry dictators which dominate the Middle East. We have two Muslim Congressmen in the United States (and there might be a third this November, s-c-a-r-y :eek:), and NEITHER of them have pushed for legislation which would enact Sharia law; in fact, Keith Ellison, the first Muslim Congressman to EVER serve in the House of Representatives, has gone on record to say that he opposes the interpretations of Sharia law which have had detrimental affects on several countries in the Middle East.

So, really, I do not understand why you CARE so much that the United States may see a rise in Muslims over the coming decades. There is NO WAY any radicals will slip into Congress; there is NO WAY Sharia Law will become the "law of the land"; there is NO WAY our society will crumble in the process. This country shouldn't fear Muslims, it is the sort of ignorance you have projected in your above post which makes me despise the post-9/11 mentality which exists among too many Westerners.

Heck, you want to know what makes me MORE afraid than possibly seeing an influx of Muslim politicians and leaders? The possibility that we'll see a Christofascist such as Mitt Romney or Bobby Jindal or Mike Huckabee become President, and they'll push to write discrimination into the Constitution in more ways than one. Because that is a LIKELY scenario, that a pretty, white Christian male will come into office sometime in the next decade and decimate our country's laws by projecting HIS views and HIS beliefs into every aspect of government, from bills to Constitutional amendments to Supreme Court appointments. That is a reality we have had to FEAR for years and years, and thankfully our Congress has been resistant enough to knock down many of the Christofascist efforts of George W. Bush over the past eight years.

Yeah... to me, Christianity and Islam are one in the same, in terms of hierarchy and viciousness. The difference between the two, however, is that Christianity has been serving as an oppressive religion in this country for way too long, and Islam will never become so prominent in my lifetime.

Open your eyes.

If you're right and I'm wrong that will become evident in Britain and France.

If I'm right and you're wrong, that will also become evident in Britain and France.

I'm patient. :)
 
I am ignorant of Islamic history and traditions (one of my many to-do list), but I sure as hell can tell you they make a lot of babies. Then you have native population (Brits and French) that are trending the opposite direction. You don't need to be a mathematical genius to figure out what will happen with the population distribution.

France and the UK would be the first two countries to "observe". This is also nice, in the sense you will see two different environments experiencing a similar phenomenon. So time will provide us the empirical evidence of what will happen, and it will be within our lifetime.

If I was a gambling man, I am predicting the values of Europe will change dramatically with this population shift.
 
I am ignorant of Islamic history and traditions (one of my many to-do list), but I sure as hell can tell you they make a lot of babies. Then you have native population (Brits and French) that are trending the opposite direction. You don't need to be a mathematical genius to figure out what will happen with the population distribution.

France and the UK would be the first two countries to "observe". This is also nice, in the sense you will see two different environments experiencing a similar phenomenon. So time will provide us the empirical evidence of what will happen, and it will be within our lifetime.

If I was a gambling man, I am predicting the values of Europe will change dramatically with this population shift.


Iceland and Denmark are also good countries to watch.
 
Iceland and Denmark are also good countries to watch.

Because Iceland and Denmark are representative of the entire Western world :huh:

You know, I am becoming increasingly disgusted with the level of xenophobia I have witnessed in this thread alone. And really, my disgust is only elevated because that xenophobia has been mixed with obvious ignorance.

Do you realize that there is NO WAY that Western countries such as Britain and the United States will repeal HUNDREDS of years worth of traditions to implement Sharia law? Do you realize that the governments of these countries will continue to be dominated by white, Christian men well into the next century (and perhaps beyond)?

Look at the United States, for example. Fourteen percent of our country is Hispanic; Thirteen percent of our population is African American. But look at our government-- there are 25 Hispanics (five percent) and forty-two African Americans (nine percent) in the House. In the Senate, there are three Hispanics (three percent) and ONE African American (one percent).

Do you see that? Is it clear? We have significant minority populations in this country, but they are VASTLY underrepresented. Yeah, a black man might become president in a few weeks-- but it has taken over a century and a half since Reconstruction to get there. So while Muslims may be increasing in record numbers, the chances that we will see any Muslim dominance in our government in OUR lifetimes are SLIM. And the chances that they'll dismantle our Constitution and replace it with Sharia law are NON-EXISTENT.

This is nothing but fear-mongering from people who know too little about this country's history, and are using population trends as a shield for their "outrage."
 
Islamic Fundamentalists and those who support Sharia haven't really been known to compromise.

History teaches that whereever Sharia makes an edge, it becomes the wedge and ends up replacing whichever law or constitution preceded it.

As was stated before, some AMERicAN law has been based on Sharia. The only Sharia and for that fact the only Islam you see seems to be the radical and the most extreme form in Saudi Arabia and Iran.
 
You can tell me about how Islam was in those countries 800 years ago, you're correct.

However, I have to look at where Islam is in too many places in the ME, where it is the most prominent religion and I don't care for what I see and unless it things change, I don't want it anywhere near me, for as long as possible.

The fact that most Muslims in Western society are relatively peaceful, law abiding, and good people doesn't change that for me and probably never will.

Oy.

There is also another fact that you're ignoring and that's the fact that most Muslims all over the world are peaceful, law abiding citizens. Islam encompasses one-fifth of the world's population, the size of this radical Islamic thought is one, not going to last that long, and is a very small minority considering out census. Yes, it takes up most of the news time, but that's the news for you, sensationalism.

What concerns you regarding what these dictators, radicals and tyrants have been doing in the name of Islam is, I assure you, more of a concern to me than it is to you.

If you don't want it anywhere near you, whether peaceful or not, is your choice. I'm sorry to hear it but clearly nothing of what I say is of much use to you.

However, I don't see the point in paralyzing yourself this way.
 
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1026273.html



They have Islamic courts in UK, so why not? :o :lmao:

As a Muslim this is idiotic and reveals to me this person has no real understanding of Al-Islam nor does he speak for Islam.

The teachings and understanding of Al-Islam in the west is no longer dependent on Middle Eastern scholarship and centuries of medieval Islamic dogma.

There is an new independent mind that is growing and examining the Quran in the West that will in time extinguish the old ways of thinking in the Muslim world and reveal the purity of the religion as a liberator of all mankind.
 
The amount of anti-Arab and anti-Muslim rhetoric in this presidential election is bothering me, and no one in the media or politics seems to comment on it. Obviously we have reporters and Obama representatives endlessly affirming that he is not a Muslim, but I would like to see someone state the simple fact that being a Muslim does not make one a terrorist anyway. Case in point, McCain correcting the woman who called Obama an Arab by saying "he is a decent family man", as if being an Arab and being a decent family man are mutually exclusive.

Sadly, it seems Muslims and Arab-Americans (which to many, seem to be synonymous, unless that woman is really unable to tell the difference between a black man and an Arab) are the last minority in America it is acceptable to be blatantly prejudiced against, as though being thought to be Muslim is the same as being thought to be a terrorist.
 
I think it would be for you. You might get the tut-tut from us self-righteous Christians, but you're relatively unmolested.

You might not be so lucky in another society.

Well, time is on our side anyway. :cwink:
 
As a Muslim this is idiotic and reveals to me this person has no real understanding of Al-Islam nor does he speak for Islam.

The teachings and understanding of Al-Islam in the west is no longer dependent on Middle Eastern scholarship and centuries of medieval Islamic dogma.

There is an new independent mind that is growing and examining the Quran in the West that will in time extinguish the old ways of thinking in the Muslim world and reveal the purity of the religion as a liberator of all mankind.

Believing any one thing "can liberate mankind" is far too utopian for my taste, that's like the claim communism or Christian fundamentalists make, if everyone believes the same thing, everything will be perfect. I don't trust anything that makes utopian claims and I think religion should only be the private sphere, I greatly distrust most forms of organized religion, once religion becomes organized it gets into the pubic sphere and becomes oppressive. In theory religions may promote peace and love, but in practice, once they get into the public sphere they promote exclusion and oppressive laws.

Beside I think the religions of the East are better then western, dogmatic, monotheist religions like Christianity and Islam. Buddhism is far more about personal enlightenment, then trying to please some bi-polar creator God may not even exist and it has by far the fewest acts of violence attached to it. I have far more respect for the pro Tibet movement then the pro Palestine movement.
 
Personally I fail to see the value of any judicial system based on ancient mythology and centuries old cultural practices turned into static law.

We've progressed too far as a species to revert back to "Thou Shalls" and "Thou Shalt Nots"
 

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