Schumacher's revision of Batman lore

[bulletbillx]

exactly, totally agreed...the series would have gone downhill regardless of who directed it after Tim Burton. if there's anything to blame Schumacher for, it's not having the backbone to tell WB to kiss his ass. he's guilty for going ahead with the projects, but i wish people would stop acting as if Schumacher was the sole reason for the end of that saga when it was really WB's decision to aim Batman towards children.

He should have at least had the backbone to push for his directors cut (which honestly should get a dvd release) and to not do Batman & Robin. But in a way im glad it happened because we got Begins and TDK out of the whole mess, and if parents ***** about TDK like they did with returns WB wont take this path again hopefully.

 

[DorkyFresh]

honestly, when WB told him to make B&R even more kid friendly i think he said 'screw it' and just went crazy with it. tried to cram as much crap into the movie as he could. i think he knew that B&R was going to be the last Batman movie for a while, even before he started filming.

 

[The Guard]

It's obvious that Schumacher knew if he was going to go much lighter with the Batman franchise that he'd have to go for the campy era of the character, and did.

 

[TMC1982]

Two things really interest me about the Schumacher/Goldsman take on Batman, and these are rarely if ever mentioned. We all know Burton had Napier kill Bruce's parents, Schumacher did something just as drastic...

1. In Forever, Bruce is cured. We learn exactly why Bruce is Batman, and it isn't vengeance, it's guilt. Once Bruce realises he's not guilty, the story could just end there, but instead....well, he just becomes Batman again anyway. But no longer because he has to be - because he chooses to be. His nightmarish psychoses are instead given to the Riddler, locked away in Arkham.

2. In B&R, the whole Nightwing storyline is dismissed. Robin does become Nightwing (there is a deleted line of dialogue where he tells Alfred that's his new name), goes solo, but it's shown as petulance on Dick's part, and soon he is back at Bruce's side.

I think that Batman Forever was trying to bring up the question for why Bruce Wayne continues to be Batman if he defeated the man who murdered his parents in the first movie (Jack Napier/Joker), and therefore, the main reason for him being Batman in the first place.

 

[Spoonman]

Now that the thread got bumped, I think it would be interesting to speculate whom Schumacher would've casted if he was given the chance to do his dark "Year One" adaptation after B&R, I think that's the time were he re-pitched it to WB as a reboot (first time was before Forever). But I'm talking serious responses, lets keep the usual nipple and neon jokes outside of this, for starters I think the movie woulve been released on the early 2000's.

Batman - Billy Cudrup (or whatever his name is spelt)
Gordon - Chris Cooper (worked with him on A time To kill)
Alfred - Anthony hopkins (worked with him on Bad Company)
Harvey Dent - No idea, probably some young rising actor from the early 2000's, as Schumacher sometimes expreses preference for a young cast instead of necesarily going with famous and already proved A-listers.

 

[Fresh Prince]

I rather Schumaker did the Year One Batman reboot after BR.

Val Kiler- Bruce Wayne/Batman
Andy Garcia- Carmine Falcone
Clint Eastwood- Harvey Dent
Nicole Kidman- Selina Kyle/Catwomen
George Clooney- James Gordon
Joe Pesci- Sal Maroni
Dolph Lundgren- The Russian(mobster)

 

[bulletbillx]

i would have liked to see what Schumacher would have done with no studio interference. his non-Batman movies are actually pretty good and pretty gritty. he was already frustrated that they pushed a kid-friendly agenda on him for Batman Forever...when they said they wanted an even more kid-friendly Batman, the result was B&R.

i'd imagine it would have been a darker movie overall based on the deleted scenes and original scene order of batman forever.

 

[Fresh Prince]

Yeah if they would of kept the deleted scenes BF would of been a better movie.

 

[3atman]

I don't know why, well I do, but artistically I don't know why we should are about little kids. Batman has been the most adult of the mainstream superheroes for a long time. I realize that there is a ton of money to be made off toys that kids will buy, but at the end of the day if you target teens who can drive themselves to the movies over and over, you will still be successful and won't have to sacrifice for a crap film. Plus there are enough other mediums for WB to capitalize on kids and toys.

I honestly don't believe Schumacher was serious at all. I think he took the high road by blaming himself. I personally don't hate him anymore. If anything, we should be happy Schumacher made Batman and Robin because now WB will NEVER give us a neon or light Batman movie. Here's how I see it:

WB: Burton's movies scared 5 year olds
Schu: So....it's Batman
WB: Yea well we want it to be lighter
Schu: Ok
one year later
Schu: here's my movie
WB: It's too dark, cut it a bit
Schu: k
one year later
WB: forever was a hit, but still, take out ALL darkness and give us a 2 hour toy commercial
Schu: are you serious?
WB: Yea.
later that day when Schu starts the project
Schu: You want a f***ing silly toy commercial, I'll give you a god damn kid commercial
1 year later
WB: So.....the movie was exactly what we wanted but it didn't do well in the box office.
Schu: what did you learn?
WB: that we're out of touch with our audience and need to hire the best directors and give them a lot more control and trust.

6 years later
WB: So, Mr. Nolan, would you like to direct a Batman movie?

 

[TMC1982]

I don't know why, well I do, but artistically I don't know why we should are about little kids. Batman has been the most adult of the mainstream superheroes for a long time. I realize that there is a ton of money to be made off toys that kids will buy, but at the end of the day if you target teens who can drive themselves to the movies over and over, you will still be successful and won't have to sacrifice for a crap film. Plus there are enough other mediums for WB to capitalize on kids and toys.

I honestly don't believe Schumacher was serious at all. I think he took the high road by blaming himself. I personally don't hate him anymore. If anything, we should be happy Schumacher made Batman and Robin because now WB will NEVER give us a neon or light Batman movie. Here's how I see it:

WB: Burton's movies scared 5 year olds
Schu: So....it's Batman
WB: Yea well we want it to be lighter
Schu: Ok
one year later
Schu: here's my movie
WB: It's too dark, cut it a bit
Schu: k
one year later
WB: forever was a hit, but still, take out ALL darkness and give us a 2 hour toy commercial
Schu: are you serious?
WB: Yea.
later that day when Schu starts the project
Schu: You want a f***ing silly toy commercial, I'll give you a god damn kid commercial
1 year later
WB: So.....the movie was exactly what we wanted but it didn't do well in the box office.
Schu: what did you learn?
WB: that we're out of touch with our audience and need to hire the best directors and give them a lot more control and trust.

6 years later
WB: So, Mr. Nolan, would you like to direct a Batman movie?

I never really saw the neon and colorful sets as a sign that the movies were going to be lighter in tone than with Tim Burton's movies. I figure that Joel Schumacher and company wanted to emulate the colors (i.e. illustration wise) of a comic book. Think of the live-action Dick Tracy movie with Warren Beatty (which I would consider sort of a hybrid Tim Burton/Joel Schumacher Batman movie albeit in a period/1930s setting).

 

[3atman]

So you're saying he was going for like a mid 90s version of Sin City where it looks completely like a comic book.

 

[IBRAH08]

Sometimes I think only about 50% of Hype! members understand this.

It's almost gotten to the stage where people are saying, "Hey, I saw Movie X yesterday, the writing, direction, acting, pacing, editing and music were probably Oscar worthy, but I didn't like it because there were some funny scenes that should have been cut - and it should have been darker."

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