Shazam vs Spiderman Homecoming

I think Shazam earned it's drama moments better. But I've found the tone more enjoyable in Homecoming. Shazam felt too kiddie and sweet for me. Which is quite an achievement when compared to MCU. Overall, it's a tie.
 
Shazam skewed a bit too young for my liking. It was well made however the 3rd act felt a bit too Power Rangers, which I can't say I was a fan of. Lol. The thing that did stand out the most between these 2 are the villains. Keaton's Vulture is just far superior in character development and performance. Strong was fine but motives are just a little under cooked imo.
 
The "kiddie" tone was a fantastic change of pace for me.

We are getting a HUGE influx of superhero movies that are about the end of the world/universe, are a cynical parody and deconstruction of superheroes, and/or include copious amounts of violence for the adults to enjoy. There's a time and place for ALL of this stuff ... I just like variety, and Shazam totally provided that for me in a super refreshing way.

If superhero movies keep getting forced upon us because Hollywood apparently can't make any other decent kind of blockbuster these days, then I want variety. Things have to be shaken up if people want the genre to flourish and not fizzle out.

Let's just say this: Before seeing the movie, my screening got an advertisement for the "Anniversary" of The Goonies. After seeing Shazam, I 100% know why The Goonies was being advertised. Shazam feels like an 80s movie I would have watched all of the time as a kid.

I think that Shazam succeeds at being a "80s kid adventure movie" more than Spider-Man: Homecoming succeeds at being an "80s John Hughes teen movie." That said, though, I still REALLY dig Spider-Man:Homecoming ... I just think that Shazam is the better movie.
 
I honestly don't know which one I prefer. I think in technical stuff, Homecoming is better but I didn't like the students (except for Liz) and Aunt May. Shazam! is fresher but I didn't like the climax.
 
Homecoming.

Sorry to it's fans but... I found SHAZAM to be a very, very uneven film. It's tone is all over the place, not that in and of itself can sink a film but in this case it didn't work. Then there's the dramatic aspects where it under cooks far too much. It never really presents any real connection Billy had with the rest of the kids in the group home or the two foster parents running it. The kid characters are also pretty underdeveloped. Maybe Darla being cute papers over stuff for some but for me it was a real failure not to at least get a real look at who these kids were or have them be shown to have some kind of relationship with Billy. Yes... Shazam and Freddy work gangbusters together and their scenes are quite good... But that's not enough to save the film. Then there's the disconnect with the way Levi is as transformed Billy and Angel as regular Billy. The two don't quite sync up as the same character. Then there's just the overall chintzy nature of this production. It doesn't look bad but... It's got zero scope. The production design is very perfunctory. Stuff like the Rock Of Eternity or the costume and make up for the Wizard merely okay to kinda cheap looking. The super powered action scenes likewise are pretty "meh". Not terrible but nothing memorable happens in the course of the film either in terms of "Wow" moments or spectacle. Then there are just all kinds of "Why do that even get written?" type of stuff, for me at least, in the story. What was the point of Billy finding his mom and it turning out that she didn't want him? So that he accepts the foster family? Okay... Except again, they didn't develop any connections with those characters outside of Freddy. Was it about learning to grow beyond childish notions? Well... That's kind of what the fantasy of Shazam is all about in a way. A lot of the themes are muddled and there was so much emphasis on "fun" that nothing else is built up. What was the effects of having these powers REALLY? Some have more than just physical attributes in terms of connotations. Wisdom, strength, courage... There was way more there to explore but the film makers just chose to side step all that.

I feel on all levels Homecoming is the superior film as it simply had more depth, better character development, production values and spectacle. In comparing the central conflicts and the villains there's just no comparing Marc Strong's serviceable Sivanna to the heights of complexity and menace that Keaton brought to Toomes. Even the one area where Shazam did well, the funny material, I think Homecoming had better laughs in comparison as well. I will probably watch Homecoming many more times in the future. Shazam? I am sorry to say I doubt I'll remember much in a years time.
 
Homecoming.

Sorry to it's fans but... I found SHAZAM to be a very, very uneven film. It's tone is all over the place, not that in and of itself can sink a film but in this case it didn't work. Then there's the dramatic aspects where it under cooks far too much. It never really presents any real connection Billy had with the rest of the kids in the group home or the two foster parents running it. The kid characters are also pretty underdeveloped. Maybe Darla being cute papers over stuff for some but for me it was a real failure not to at least get a real look at who these kids were or have them be shown to have some kind of relationship with Billy. Yes... Shazam and Freddy work gangbusters together and their scenes are quite good... But that's not enough to save the film. Then there's the disconnect with the way Levi is as transformed Billy and Angel as regular Billy. The two don't quite sync up as the same character. Then there's just the overall chintzy nature of this production. It doesn't look bad but... It's got zero scope. The production design is very perfunctory. Stuff like the Rock Of Eternity or the costume and make up for the Wizard merely okay to kinda cheap looking. The super powered action scenes likewise are pretty "meh". Not terrible but nothing memorable happens in the course of the film either in terms of "Wow" moments or spectacle. Then there are just all kinds of "Why do that even get written?" type of stuff, for me at least, in the story. What was the point of Billy finding his mom and it turning out that she didn't want him? So that he accepts the foster family? Okay... Except again, they didn't develop any connections with those characters outside of Freddy. Was it about learning to grow beyond childish notions? Well... That's kind of what the fantasy of Shazam is all about in a way. A lot of the themes are muddled and there was so much emphasis on "fun" that nothing else is built up. What was the effects of having these powers REALLY? Some have more than just physical attributes in terms of connotations. Wisdom, strength, courage... There was way more there to explore but the film makers just chose to side step all that.

I feel on all levels Homecoming is the superior film as it simply had more depth, better character development, production values and spectacle. In comparing the central conflicts and the villains there's just no comparing Marc Strong's serviceable Sivanna to the heights of complexity and menace that Keaton brought to Toomes. Even the one area where Shazam did well, the funny material, I think Homecoming had better laughs in comparison as well. I will probably watch Homecoming many more times in the future. Shazam? I am sorry to say I doubt I'll remember much in a years time.

I think your post covers the same thoughts I have and it's well put so I'll save myself the trouble and just go with an "I agree" on this one.
 
Love Spidey & Holland's version of the character but I have got to go with Shazam for the feeling of pure joy it brought.


Yeah. I have to agree with this. I enjoyed Homecoming a lot but Shazam has even better chemistry between the actors and a more satisfying final showdown - a better villain for Homecoming but all in all Shazam is much more fun.
 
Just got out of Shazam and I really enjoyed it but I would rank Homecoming higher.
 
I haven't seen SHAZAM, but I expect to vote for it cause the impression I got from trailers is:
  • Billy and Freddy have more interesting friendship than Peter and Ned.
  • Captain Marvel manages to defeat shoplifters instead of wasting time and letting them escape.
 
I haven't seen SHAZAM, but I expect to vote for it cause the impression I got from trailers is:
  • Billy and Freddy have more interesting friendship than Peter and Ned.
  • Captain Marvel manages to defeat shoplifters instead of wasting time and letting them escape.

Yeah, in terms of being successful as a superhero Shazam has a few moments where he's crap, but he's nowhere near the total screw up that Peter is in Homecoming.
 
Yeah, in terms of being successful as a superhero Shazam has a few moments where he's crap, but he's nowhere near the total screw up that Peter is in Homecoming.

I'd say that they approach failure a bit differently. Unlike Peter I think Billy has times where he fails as a superhero due to not being a very good person.
 
I'd say that they approach failure a bit differently. Unlike Peter I think Billy has times where he fails as a superhero due to not being a very good person.


Are you kidding ? You're 13 and suddenly have super powers tell me you're not going to have some fun. Adults, even essentially good ones, can't handle power in the real world- what Billy does is pretty harmless really, a little bit selfish but he's just a kid and ultimately does the right thing. The bus crash is the worst thing he does, which he fixes himself but also learns from, that his actions have consequences. His cowardice facinf Sivana rhe first time is believable because that's how a 13 year old would react to being beaten up by an adult, fear and the urge to run away.

Peter is a very moral person but his obsession with proving himself nearly gets hundreds of people killed - and unlike Shazam with the bus, he couldn't have fixed the problem he created.

Both of them are good people but they're also just kids who learn to understand the consequences of their actions - something plenty of adults never learn.
 
Are you kidding ? You're 13 and suddenly have super powers tell me you're not going to have some fun. Adults, even essentially good ones, can't handle power in the real world- what Billy does is pretty harmless really, a little bit selfish but he's just a kid and ultimately does the right thing. The bus crash is the worst thing he does, which he fixes himself but also learns from, that his actions have consequences. His cowardice facinf Sivana rhe first time is believable because that's how a 13 year old would react to being beaten up by an adult, fear and the urge to run away.

Peter is a very moral person but his obsession with proving himself nearly gets hundreds of people killed - and unlike Shazam with the bus, he couldn't have fixed the problem he created.

Both of them are good people but they're also just kids who learn to understand the consequences of their actions - something plenty of adults never learn.

Of course I'm not kidding. Billy does a bunch of things that are purely driven by selfishness and focuses on what he wants. I said "at times" so I'm obviously not saying that's all he does, or that he's a terrible human being.

Pushing people away until he needs something from them, he steals several times, he uses his power to charge people for autographs, etc. These are actions based in selfishness. He fights for what's right in the end, but some of his new family seemed to be more pure of heart than he did.

Peter on the other hand is consistently driven by the desire to do good, even when it hurts his own life. He sees it as a responsibility, but he wants to do too much and doesn't understand how his actions will cause harm.

That's the point, that their mistakes in part come from different motivations. Peter causes bigger problems but I think he's still the more sympathetic person overall. If Shazam's spell covered both universes I think Peter would have been a better fit, although he would too have been suffering from the fact that the wisdom of Solomon doesn't do anything.
 
And to add on, yes, Billy is a kid, but he’s clearly and deliberately meant to come across as unlikable at times. He told a six-year-old to her face that she didn’t need to hang onto him all the time because he’s not her real brother. His faults are easy to forgice away because he’s, like, 14, but still.

Peter, by contrast, is just really naive.
 
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I really loved both movies but I think Shazam is the superior superhero film.
 
Of course I'm not kidding. Billy does a bunch of things that are purely driven by selfishness and focuses on what he wants. I said "at times" so I'm obviously not saying that's all he does, or that he's a terrible human being.

Pushing people away until he needs something from them, he steals several times, he uses his power to charge people for autographs, etc. These are actions based in selfishness. He fights for what's right in the end, but some of his new family seemed to be more pure of heart than he did.

Peter on the other hand is consistently driven by the desire to do good, even when it hurts his own life. He sees it as a responsibility, but he wants to do too much and doesn't understand how his actions will cause harm.

That's the point, that their mistakes in part come from different motivations. Peter causes bigger problems but I think he's still the more sympathetic person overall. If Shazam's spell covered both universes I think Peter would have been a better fit, although he would too have been suffering from the fact that the wisdom of Solomon doesn't do anything.

Interesting that you think Peter is a better person. There's an argument that a person is what they do rather than what's inside them:

Some of Billy's actions are selfish, fair enough - if charging for autographs offends you, you may wish to avoid conventions.

However, only in the bus incident does Billy put lives at risk, which he then promptly saves.

You glossed over some of Peter's escalating blunders:

1) the guy who he webs to his own car because he doesn't take the time to assess the situation.


2)Screwed up at the atm robbery by messing around rather than just taking down the perps, which led to the destruction of the bodega across the road - and nearly killed the owner.
Props to him for saving the guy, but he caused the problem in the first place and the owner's business is destroyed and he will have a big fight with an insurance company to look forward to.

3) Peter does a ton of property damage to suburban households while chasing Vulture's thugs. Still a hilarious scene but Peter doesn't care that he's wrecking people's stuff in order to chase the van. Maybe there's a greater good argument but it's still not a great look.

4) Peter nearly gets himself killed at the end of that chase when Vulture gets involved - not really his fault but it's painfully clear that he's way over his head and without Iron Man's intervention he'd have drowned.

5) The ferry....where his bungling nearly kills hundreds of people.

So, despite all his good intentions he's incredibly reckless and nearly does more harm than good throughout the movie. It's not his own life he's screwing up but other people's.

I still think that Homecoming is the best Spidey film and the best version of Spider Man to date, but you're making him out to be some sort of saint when he's really driven by a desperate need to prove himself.

Billy is unlikable and selfish at times, but then he was abandoned as a small child and has been bounced around between foster homes - he's much more screwed up than Peter, whose parents are dead but was raised by loving relatives, because Billy knows his parents are still out there - and somewhere down deep knows that they didn't want him. Billy has had a much harder road through life than Peter but still finds his inner hero - so its not hard to cut him some slack.

Billy is the best fit for Shazam's powers because the point of the film is that perfect pure of heart people who never do wrong don't exist - but Billy was the best person for the job, because underneath some of his minor roguery he was brave and compassionate.

And you should try kidding, it worked for Thor in his last two movie appearances. Since he's started kidding he's been much more relatable and his movies have been better.:cwink:
 
Although the two characters are roughly the same age, we are seeing them at different stages in their superhero career. Shazam is a true origin story, whereas SM:H isn't. Billy's selfishness is to be expected. Recall that in the standard Spider-Man origin story, Peter also uses his powers selfishly to make money while also refusing to stop a crook from escaping (saying "I'm looking out for number one....me!"), and we know how that ended. The SM:H Peter is more "heroic" because he's already been through those early growing stages as a hero, the same stages that we witness Billy going through in Shazam.

And unlike Peter, in Billy's first encounter with a petty thief, he didn't talk about "I'm looking out for #1" or anything like that. He actually tried to help.
 
Although the two characters are roughly the same age, we are seeing them at different stages in their superhero career. Shazam is a true origin story, whereas SM:H isn't. Billy's selfishness is to be expected. Recall that in the standard Spider-Man origin story, Peter also uses his powers selfishly to make money while also refusing to stop a crook from escaping (saying "I'm looking out for number one....me!"), and we know how that ended. The SM:H Peter is more "heroic" because he's already been through those early growing stages as a hero, the same stages that we witness Billy going through in Shazam.

And unlike Peter, in Billy's first encounter with a petty thief, he didn't talk about "I'm looking out for #1" or anything like that. He actually tried to help.


Good points all around ! :applaud
 
Interesting that you think Peter is a better person. There's an argument that a person is what they do rather than what's inside them:

Some of Billy's actions are selfish, fair enough - if charging for autographs offends you, you may wish to avoid conventions.

However, only in the bus incident does Billy put lives at risk, which he then promptly saves.

You glossed over some of Peter's escalating blunders:

1) the guy who he webs to his own car because he doesn't take the time to assess the situation.


2)Screwed up at the atm robbery by messing around rather than just taking down the perps, which led to the destruction of the bodega across the road - and nearly killed the owner.
Props to him for saving the guy, but he caused the problem in the first place and the owner's business is destroyed and he will have a big fight with an insurance company to look forward to.

3) Peter does a ton of property damage to suburban households while chasing Vulture's thugs. Still a hilarious scene but Peter doesn't care that he's wrecking people's stuff in order to chase the van. Maybe there's a greater good argument but it's still not a great look.

4) Peter nearly gets himself killed at the end of that chase when Vulture gets involved - not really his fault but it's painfully clear that he's way over his head and without Iron Man's intervention he'd have drowned.

5) The ferry....where his bungling nearly kills hundreds of people.

So, despite all his good intentions he's incredibly reckless and nearly does more harm than good throughout the movie. It's not his own life he's screwing up but other people's.

I still think that Homecoming is the best Spidey film and the best version of Spider Man to date, but you're making him out to be some sort of saint when he's really driven by a desperate need to prove himself.

Billy is unlikable and selfish at times, but then he was abandoned as a small child and has been bounced around between foster homes - he's much more screwed up than Peter, whose parents are dead but was raised by loving relatives, because Billy knows his parents are still out there - and somewhere down deep knows that they didn't want him. Billy has had a much harder road through life than Peter but still finds his inner hero - so its not hard to cut him some slack.

Billy is the best fit for Shazam's powers because the point of the film is that perfect pure of heart people who never do wrong don't exist - but Billy was the best person for the job, because underneath some of his minor roguery he was brave and compassionate.

And you should try kidding, it worked for Thor in his last two movie appearances. Since he's started kidding he's been much more relatable and his movies have been better.:cwink:

Yes, since both show bad behavior I'd say that the one that does it by being in over his head in the desire to do good is a better person than the one that starts out with the goal to take care of himself. Especially when we're talking film as it's of course exciting that they cause some trouble, but when someone does it with good intentions the character can still be likable, but if you have him do some negative things to good people on purpose it's an unlikable trait.

I don't find it offensive but it sounds a little like you did with the notion of criticizing Billy. Out of the handful of examples I gave the autograph one is the last one I'd single out. Having billy do things like steal from people that honestly try to help him (and not a small favor either) is definitely there to establish significant selfishness.

Peter isn't a saint but his motivations are pure. Even his desire to prove himself isn't based in selfishness but to put himself in a position where he can do good on a bigger scale. We've heard Peter talk about his motivations in Civil War and he's 100% about helping people because he thinks that it's his responsibility and that if he doesn't he's a bad person. He's clearly had the Ben message instilled in him.

I'm not sure what part of me saying "Peter causes bigger problems" that indicate that I gloss over bad things he causes. None of the examples you bring up has anything to do with motivation though, which is what I've talked about.

As for Billy being the best fit, I'd say that some of his adoptive family show better qualities. Not that I disagree with having him have some bad traits from a story point of view, that's a classic unlikely hero's journey, but just like with the Wisdom of Solomon thing I think the story just clashes with the concepts and they should perhaps have changed something to make it smoother. I'm glad Shazam keeps Billy's mind instead of being made to be wise, but then perhaps don't say that he has a wisdom superpower. I guess the same goes for the Courage of Achilles.

All in all it feels like this got really overblown from a comment about that Peter and Billy aren't exact analogs where the only difference is what they cause.

I don't need to kid because my film is already awesome. It's deep character drama about a rogue space ninja trying to balance a normal Earthly life with fighting off extra-dimensional threats, and it's very, very serious.
 
I don't need to kid because my film is already awesome. It's deep character drama about a rogue space ninja trying to balance a normal Earthly life with fighting off extra-dimensional threats, and it's very, very serious.


See, there you go ! I knew you had it in you.:applaud
 
Shazam is probably my favorite DCEU film. Having said that did they have to copy the school notebook art in the end credits like Homecoming did? I mean they even used the Ramones on the soundtrack as well!

Hard for me to compare the two, as Shazam is much more of a traditional origin story type film. I think it actually followed the format of Sam Raimi's original Spider-man with some of the beats and even having the origin story of the villain parallel the heroes' story.
 

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