Smoking Bylaw

[Matt]

Obviously things work differently than here. In the pub I work in all our permits are from the City of Calgary. So yeah, bite me, K?

My point is that the city/state regulates what occurs in places that they've licensed. Repeat offenders up here can be stripped of their licenses if they don't fall in line with the new bylaw. Nobody made a huge stink about it when open smoking was banned from restaurants, so why now?

Plenty of people did. It is an infringment on private property.

Couldn't you just build a smoking room?

So I should have to pay money to add a room onto the building, all the while dealing with zoning laws and all of that fun stuff because a few people can't walk down the street and go somewhere else? Grow up.

 

[Addendum]

I forget where what is from. I guess it's Philly but I could be wrong. But if it's Philly, then I know for a fact that there are tons of bars in Philly.

One bar that allows smoking isn't taking away the rights of non-smokers

 

[Matt]

So, now you have all of the rights and none of the responsibilities? It's all on the public? Give me a break.

YES IT IS! NO ONE IS MAKING THEM SIT IN MY BAR! NO ONE IS HOLDING A GUN TO THEIR HEAD AND TELLING THEM THEY HAVE TO STAY! IF THEY ARE CONCERNED WITH THEIR HEALTH THEY CAN LEAVE AND GO ELSEWHERE! BECAUSE OF THAT I WOULD LOSE MONEY, THAT IS WHERE THE RESPONSIBILITY PART AFFECTS ME!

Christ, how do you not get this?

 

[Addendum]

And it's not like their legs stop working once they enter a bar that allows smoking.

Matt, it's ridiculous talking to him. He's like those idiots that can't grasp that the tv and radio have dials that allow you to change channels when something you don't like comes on.

 

[Matt]

And it's not like their legs stop working once they enter a bar that allows smoking.

Matt, it's ridiculous talking to him. He's like those idiots that can't grasp that the tv and radio have dials that allow you to change channels when something you don't like comes on.

Yeah, I suppose you are right.

 

[Hades]

I can't wait till I turn 18

I'm smoking untill I puke blood

 

[Kritish]

I can't wait till I turn 18

I'm smoking untill I puke blood

Aren't you like 37?

 

[Hades]

Aren't you like 37?

hellz no.

What gave you that idea

 

[Halcohol]

And it's not like their legs stop working once they enter a bar that allows smoking.

Matt, it's ridiculous talking to him. He's like those idiots that can't grasp that the tv and radio have dials that allow you to change channels when something you don't like comes on.

Say what you want, but I haven't called you an idiot yet.

I just don't understand how people can look at this and say it's a bad thing! What good is freedom if you've got lung cancer?

 

[Kritish]

hellz no.

What gave you that idea

Didn't you say you were thirty-seven in the "How old are you?" thread?

I must have drank too much.

 

[Matt]

Say what you want, but I haven't called you an idiot yet.

I just don't understand how people can look at this and say it's a bad thing! What good is freedom if you've got lung cancer?

He didn't call you an idiot either. And here is a shocking notion, maybe I don't want Big Brother protecting me. Maybe I'd like the right to do what I want with my private property.

 

[Movies205]

Smoking is awesome... Now for ****-sake, stop being *****es... Smoking kills, you ain't man enough to face up to it, you don't deserve to smoke... Now piss-off

 

[Matt]

Smoking is awesome... Now for ****-sake, stop being *****es... Smoking kills, you ain't man enough to face up to it, you don't deserve to smoke... Now piss-off

As tactful as ever. Its not a matter of it kills or not. It is a matter of if the government has the right to tell me what I can do with my business.

 

[Halcohol]

He didn't call you an idiot either. And here is a shocking notion, maybe I don't want Big Brother protecting me. Maybe I'd like the right to do what I want with my private property.

I know. I get it. It's just that it's not your home, it's a business. As such, you have responsibilities to your customers.

Simply for that reason, I disagree that your right to do what you want has precedence over someone's right to enjoy a smoke-free environment.

Can we agree to disagree?

 

[Hades]

Didn't you say you were thirty-seven in the "How old are you?" thread?

I must have drank too much.

No, I'm just a complusive liar.

 

[Addendum]

I know. I get it. It's just that it's not your home, it's a business. As such, you have responsibilities to your customers.

Simply for that reason, I disagree that your right to do what you want has precedence over someone's right to enjoy a smoke-free environment.

Can we agree to disagree?

And that someone has more choices than just one bar that allows smoking.

I guess their feets failed them when they entered a smoking bar, that has a sign that says "we allow smoking in this establishment"

 

[Matt]

I know. I get it. It's just that it's not your home, it's a business. As such, you have responsibilities to your customers.

The only responsibility I have to customers is to give them a service in exchange for their money. I can deny them service and they can deny me money for any reason.
I am not their doctor.

 

[Movies205]

As tactful as ever. Its not a matter of it kills or not. It is a matter of if the government has the right to tell me what I can do with my business.

... Matt, why you having a serious conversation on these boards, it's about as productive as George Bush's administration. The government obviously shouldn't be imposing such ridiculous means on all buesinesses especially in places like Bars.

 

[Kritish]

No, I'm just a complusive liar.

How old are you really drunkie?

 

[Hades]

How old are you really drunkie?

How old do you want me to be

 

[Halcohol]

The only responsibility I have to customers is to give them a service in exchange for their money. I can deny them service and they can deny me money for any reason.

But you must legally provide them with a reasonably safe environment, correct? As in with little to no chance of death. The government has redefined that to include smoking. That's all I'm saying.

... Matt, why you having a serious conversation on these boards, it's about as productive as George Bush's administration. The government obviously shouldn't be imposing such ridiculous means on all buesinesses especially in places like Bars.

Nobody's ever convinced anyone of anything on these boards, if that's what you mean by productivity. I hardly think that trying to get people to be healthier is a bad idea, though the instant hard-line imposition of such rules is, as you say, ridiculous.

I would've liked to have seen voluntary smoke-free for a few years, but it would have had to have been a stepping stone to mandatory smoke-free legislation for me to support it.

Seeing as how I only quit 4 months ago, I don't know all of the long-term benefits of quitting, but the interim benefits such as easier breathing, more energy, and an improved sense of smell and taste are so great that they're far more satisfying than any cigarette could be. I believe smoke-free is the way to go, and that's how I'm always going to be.

Finally, I thought our serious discussion wasn't half bad... but what do I know.

 

[Matt]

But you must legally provide them with a reasonably safe environment, correct? As in with little to no chance of death. The government has redefined that to include smoking. That's all I'm saying.

That is the most piss backwards logic I have ever read.

1) Second hand smoke statistics are greatly exaggerated by the anti-tobacco lobby.

2) Sitting in a bar for an hour with cigarette smoke is not going to give anyone cancer

3) Smoking is not considered a threat to someone's life. Otherwise the government would outlaw it entirely. The Surgeon General's warning says it MAY cause cancer.

4) If it is good enough for the government to make money off it, who are they to say it cannot be in my bar?

5) for the 6 billionth time, a point that you have yet to address, why can't people who feel it is a health risk, just go to another bar?

 

[Kritish]

How old do you want me to be

Ew...

Not until you learn to shape shift!

 

[Halcohol]

This is all I got right now, a fact sheet from the US Government's Centers for Disease Control on the benefits of a smoke-free environment.

Among Adults:

• Workplace smoking restrictions lead to less smoking among employees.
• Smoking bans and restrictions in workplaces lead to reductions in daily consumption of cigarettes and increases in tobacco use cessation among workers.
• A 2002 review of 26 studies concluded that a complete smoking ban in the workplace reduces smoking prevalence among employees by 3.8 percent and daily cigarette consumption by 3.1 cigarettes among employees who continue to smoke.
• A study conducted in 20 U.S. and 2 Canadian communities found that employees who worked in workplaces that maintained or changed to smoke–free policies between 1993 and 2001 were nearly twice as likely to have stopped smoking by 2001 as employees who worked in workplaces that allowed smoking everywhere.
• Smoking prevalence among New York City adults decreased by 11 percent (approximately 140,000 fewer smokers) from 2002 to 2003 following the implementation of a comprehensive municipal smoke–free law, a cigarette excise tax increase, a media campaign, and a cessation initiative involving the distribution of free nicotine replacement therapy.

Among Youth:

• By challenging the perception of smoking as a normal adult behavior, smoke-free policies can change the attitudes and behaviors of adolescents, resulting in a reduction in tobacco use initiation.
• A national study found that adolescents who work in smoke*free workplaces are significantly less likely to be smokers than adolescents who work in workplaces with no smoking restrictions or a partial work-area smoking ban.
• A Massachusetts study found that, compared to youth who live in towns with weak restaurant smoking restrictions, youth living in towns with laws making restaurants smoke-free were less than half as likely to progress to established smoking.7

References can be found here.

Look, the laws in the United States are different from those in the rest of the world and are more geared towards defending the rights of an individual to choose. As far as I'm concerned, pissing off 20 bar owners in a city is a small price to pay for cutting down 11% of the city's smokers.

I didn't make the law, but I support it. Most of the people I've talked to like it as well, even the smokers (probably because it's not that cold this winter ).

As for #6, if you want your advertising campaign to be "Go to another bar!", go nuts. But then again, I'm kind of a socialist.

 

[Matt]

Look, the laws in the United States are different from those in the rest of the world and are more geared towards defending the rights of an individual to choose.

Wouldn't the right to choose be their right to choose to go to another bar and my right to choose whether or not to allow smoking as opposed to the government interfering with the private section?

I think Abaddon is right about you though...