The Arrow's Tip: Official Thread

[Brainiac 8]

If people were here all the time and read some of our conversations then they would realize that we disagree and we can do so without resorting to foolishness like others.

It's just when someone comes in here with some crazy BS spewing garbage that makes no sense that we jump all over them.

And by jumping all over them I mean proving them wrong on their crazy assumptions.

That's just how we roll....t:

 

[thebigtree95]

I'm a big fan of Green Arrow in general, so I was glad to see him on the show and would welcome him back.
But neither him or anyone else shoud be on at the detriment of Clark's story.

 

[Whiteflag]

I thought he was way overused and in the end didnt really add much to the overall arc, that Clark couldnt have added himself.

And if it was really about giving Tom time off, then I cant understand why it happened in the first half of the season, you would think that giving him time off would have been more appropriate or necessary in the middle of the season.

That would be one of the first times that I have spoken in a negative fashion about a character or even the show in general, so I dont understand why you're taking such an offence to my disliking the Green Arrow.

I didnt like him. It seems that I'm in the minority, but I wont make any apology for it.

Word, word and word! :heart:

Meh. This is the prevailing attitude the writers instilled, which is what bugs me the most about Oliver. He isn't the first or last hero to combat 33.1. Clark's been there the entire time. If the 33.1 story arc ends this season - which I kind of doubt given how much they could do with the concept - I'd like to see Clark get the glory this time.

DeKnight admitted that part of the difficulty in writing Clark Kent is that he's just so ridiculously powerful. Clark's defenses alone (invulnerability, speed, hearing and x-ray vision) are bad enough. Add the offense of strength and the ability to fry anything to ashes with a glance and you've got one unstoppable mo-fo. And crap... Clark doesn't even FLY yet. Just wait! LOL

Technically, Clark shouldn't have needed help to rescue Bart in Justice, but there wouldn't have been much of a story if the writers couldn't side-line him temporarily with some well-placed Kryptonite. Cliché, but necessary for the plot on one level, demeaning to the show's hero on another.

I'm kind of tired of Clark being side-lined like that, especially for the season finales. The only time it didn't happen for a season finale was in S1's, Tempest. All of the others (Exodus - running away from his problems strung out on RedK; Covenant - getting sucked into the cave wall; Commencement - transported to the arctic as the FOS forms; and Vessel; trapped in the PZ), the writers have surgically removed Clark from the main story. It's frustrating.

For this year's finale, it would be re-heeeely nice to have Clark be the hero again. They could still have a cliffhanger, but make it hang on something hero driven for Clark, and not having Green Arrow there to coddle and browbeat him makes it a little easier.

Sorry if that sounds negative, but I'm one of the biggest cheerleaders for SV here. My enjoyment of SV revolves around Clark and his circle of friends and family. Not sure where the points about Tom needing to have a few light episodes every once in a while come from. Kinda out of left field since it's a show about Clark Kent. Besides, the discussion was in regards to this season's finale, hardly the time for Tom to take a break.

I only hope the GA/JH fans can understand that POV from one faction of the SV fandom.

Well said, Pat! :heart:

 

[Whiteflag]

And I don't think Justin really hurt Tom's screen time. Maybe the marketing folks emphasized Justin too much, but that isn't anybody's fault at the production offices. That was likely purely a marketing decision.

It's a fact that the GA did hurt Tom's screen time. And even AG/MM have admitted that they were testing the waters for a GA spinoff. So production had a saying in all that GA promotion.

And Tom woulda had to pare down his parts in some episodes anyway to give him needed breathing space. Tom can't be in every scene in every episode. It's just not possible....

I can't believe anyone that likes Tom would begrudge him that. I know I don't want him to burn out.

Again, there's no proof whatsoever that they had those GA-heavy episodes for Tom's sake. As it has already been said, it was at the beginning of the season, not in the middle, and AG/MM have clearly implied in their interviews that they were after a GA, or a JL, spinoff. To me, they did that at the expense of some of the regulars, particularly Clark Kent.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

It's a fact that the GA did hurt Tom's screen time.

It's a fact? Wasnt the episode that Tom was in least this season "Static" in which Ollie didnt even appear?

And even AG/MM have admitted that they were testing the waters for a GA spinoff. So production had a saying in all that GA promotion.

They were? Do you have a link to where they've said that? I've only ever heard them say "there are no plans for a GA spinoff." Even JH said the same thing on the House of El interview.

 

[Serene]

I'm a big fan of Green Arrow in general, so I was glad to see him on the show and would welcome him back.
But neither him or anyone else shoud be on at the detriment of Clark's story.

QUOTED FOR TRUTH!

Can we all just pass the pipe and dance naked around the fire now? :heart:

 

[Brainiac 8]

QUOTED FOR TRUTH!

Can we all just pass the pipe and dance naked around the fire now? :heart:

I'm up for that!

But only if I can watch on the sidelines.

 

[boydston_14]

I'm real bummed out now that I know GA isn't gonna be in the finale.

 

[Whiteflag]

It's a fact? Wasnt the episode that Tom was in least this season "Static" in which Ollie didnt even appear?

"Static" was the worst one of a number of episodes where Clark was relegated to the B story.

They were? Do you have a link to where they've said that? I've only ever heard them say "there are no plans for a GA spinoff." Even JH said the same thing on the House of El interview.

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0702/12/smallvillela.htm

AG/MM wanted it. They talked about it to the Network. The CW ultimately refused it but they tried. They admitted that much there.

 

[04nbod]

I dont quite agree with that. Clark was being more of a hero in the episodes where Ollie wasnt present.

Zod
Fallout
Static
Subterranean

There have been 3 episodes since Justice

Labyrinth (insight into Clark's mind)
Trespass (Clark being a hero)
Freak (Clark being very much a hero and using all of his powers)

i agree with you with zod and fallout.Static was one episode he was out looking for zoners and he had to be saved by MM. Subterranean I think was an episode where the message was really meant to be put ahead of his heroism.
since justice. labyrinth, a zoner got him found him again like fallout not him looking for them and showing he was really interested in finding them. And again MM had to save him to a degree.Trespass was a lana focused episode and one of all too common endings of clark coming in the last few seconds and saving the day. He has not been really stretched.

The relationship stuff has been introduced now in the second half, so we can start to see the fall of Lex Luthor and so we can get Clark and Lana back on friendly terms where they're supposed to be.

i won't get started on how detrimental the relationship stuff is to lex's character but i don't see why clark in involved in their relationship, chloe's relationship and to a degree lois' with ollie. The time is better spent on him doing his job and showing he's a hero more

I didnt mind Ollie being a new character this season and I didnt mind him being somewhat of a mentor to Clark, and the two characters/actors did have great chemistry. However, I think Ollie was a real jerk to Clark. He pre-judged him without having any facts on exactly what Clark has been doing for the last 5 1/2 years, and as a consequence Ollie's character tried to take over the whole superhero deal.

ollie knew what clark was about and what he had been doing(i'm sure the other members of the JL would have told him more). Clark has been saving lana from stalkers when the JL are working for the greater good.The fact is clark has all this power but is stuck in his barn doing small stuff thats good but he could do so much more. Ollie is already a superhero,clark isn't YET, once he is smallville will be over.

As far as Jor-el is concerned, well Clark needs to start thinking for himself a bit more, that was the point of getting rid of Jonathan so what's the point of having him running to Jor-el every 5 minutes or every other episode. Clark has made a promise to return to Jor-el to do his training and he will when the time is right.

i would have thought after how Raya's last wish was for him to repower the fortress he would use it. He is being hunted down by enemies more powerful than him and other worldly. This isn't like jonathans fatherly moral support this is like clark going the library and reading up on his enemy. It would also reconnect him with his kryptonian heritage which has been lacking.

 

[avidreader]

Static was one episode he was out looking for zoners and he had to be saved by MM.

Well we dont know how far Clark would have been able to go in the fight, because MM stepped in before it went too far.

Subterranean I think was an episode where the message was really meant to be put ahead of his heroism.

Clark was still there doing the right thing and making sure that the little man was treated humanely.

since justice. labyrinth, a zoner got him found him again like fallout not him looking for them and showing he was really interested in finding them.

They have shown us Clark looking for zoners, he was down in South America at the beginning of Justice. He told Ollie at the end of Justice that he still had to take care of that situation. However looking for them doesnt mean that he's going to find them all. These zoners are all criminals with criminal minds, I dont see how one or two of them finding him first means that he's not actively looking.

Trespass was a lana focused episode and one of all too common endings of clark coming in the last few seconds and saving the day. He has not been really stretched.

He saved her twice within that episode, however in the beginning Clark suggested to Chloe that Lex's security should take care of it. It was only when Chloe mentioned that Lex was out of the country and that Lana wasnt giving Lex the full story because she was protecting Clark, that Clark stepped in, did some investigating and saved her.

In terms of storytelling, you cant have Clark doing the same thing every week (i.e. out searching for zoners). It would get boring. They to and fro between relationship episodes, zoner episodes and save the people at home episodes.

i won't get started on how detrimental the relationship stuff is to lex's character but i don't see why clark in involved in their relationship,

Because Lex and Lana's relationship was built on the fallout of Clark's relationship with both of them. He is at the core of their relationship together. Its all about him.

chloe's relationship and to a degree lois' with ollie. The time is better spent on him doing his job and showing he's a hero more

Clark's involvement with the other two relationships has been as a friend, from his point of view. Jimmy saw him as a threat, but Clark put his mind to rest about that. And Clark was able to relate to Ollie's relationship with Lois because of his failed relationship with Lana.

I dont know why it should be a problem or concern, for them to show us Clark being a friend to the people who are involved in his life.

ollie knew what clark was about and what he had been doing(i'm sure the other members of the JL would have told him more). Clark has been saving lana from stalkers when the JL are working for the greater good.

Ollie knew very little about Clark when they first met in Arrow. They never told us that the other JLAers filled Ollie in on what Clark is about, so I cant in my mind as a viewer believe that it ever took place. I mean AC didnt even know that Ollie was dating Lois. The truth of the matter is though, that no one, aside from Martha and Chloe, knows just how much Clark has done to save the world because he doesnt go about advertising it.

The fact is clark has all this power but is stuck in his barn doing small stuff thats good but he could do so much more. Ollie is already a superhero,clark isn't YET, once he is smallville will be over.

You're also forgetting that Ollie has at least 6 years on Clark, has the funds and the resources to go about his business. Clark only finished High School a year and a half ago, and has had so many hurdles to overcome along the way that he simply is not ready yet to take a more public worldwide hero effort.

i would have thought after how Raya's last wish was for him to repower the fortress he would use it. He is being hunted down by enemies more powerful than him and other worldly. This isn't like jonathans fatherly moral support this is like clark going the library and reading up on his enemy. It would also reconnect him with his kryptonian heritage which has been lacking.

I think the way they've explained it on the show with regards to the FOS and Jor-el is that you dont just go there for a weekly lesson, once you step in there you have to stay until you're finished. Who knows what could happen to the world while he is gone, with all those zoners out there?

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

"Static" was the worst one of a number of episodes where Clark was relegated to the B story.

which would then imply that perhaps it's not a "fact" that Ollie was the cause of Clark's decreased screen time, no?

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0702/12/smallvillela.htm

AG/MM wanted it. They talked about it to the Network. The CW ultimately refused it but they tried. They admitted that much there.

In that link all it says was that they talked about it, not that they were seriously considering it or even got to the point of "auditioning" the character. You're making a bit of a leap there
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[The Incredible Hulk]

BTW there's a disturbing trend of "character b!tching" starting here that I thought was only reserved for cess pools like the K-Site boards, TWOP, DeKnight's blog, etc.

People are getting so defensive about certain character on the show and act like they're threatened by other characters, so they lash out at them. It's all a bit ridiculous.
The great part about these boards and the reason it's easy to look past the terrible site moderation was the great intersection of the different fan groups (and by that I dont mean "ships"), it also didnt have the pettiness that's arisen in a lot of other places. I'm starting to see a change, and frankly it sucks.

 

[thebigtree95]

Maybe it is the hiatus like mentioned before, people are getting ravenous.

 

[Whiteflag]

which would then imply that perhaps it's not a "fact" that Ollie was the cause of Clark's decreased screen time, no?

It's a fact that the GA contributed largely to that. IMO.

In that link all it says was that they talked about it, not that they were seriously considering it or even got to the point of "auditioning" the character. You're making a bit of a leap there.

When you discuss a spin off, or any other project, and defend it to the network that means that you are seriously considering doing it. (Believe me, I work for TV and I know). And AG/MM were clearly disappointed at the network's refusal, as they themselves state. Their words imply that they would have gone ahead with it if the CW hadn't finally rejected it.

Of course we can agree to disagree on all the above.

 

[Whiteflag]

Maybe it is the hiatus like mentioned before, people are getting ravenous.

Hiatus or not, people are always going to disagree on boards. People should be allowed to have different opinions and to “dare” to express them. That’s what discussion boards are for, and as long as those opinions are stated in a respectful way (which sadly not everyone does all the time) I don't see how that can be bad. Not everyone has to agree with everyone and, as amazing as it might appear to some people, the ones who disagree with them have their reasons for doing so and those reasons can be perfectly valid, no matter how much they differ from their own.

People must be free to give opinions and people can be free to disagree with them. That's how things usually work on discussion boards and this board is certainly no exception.

All the above IMO, of course.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

It's a fact that the GA contributed largely to that. IMO.

were you trying to be ironical with that statement?

When you discuss a spin off, or any other project, and defend it to the network that means that you are seriously considering doing it.(Believe me, I work for TV and I know).

says who? For all we know it could've been A&M asking the Network execs, "hey would you ever consider a GA spinoff series?" And the CW saying "no thanks." The interview you posted makes it sound like it never got past any intial brain-storming stages not like it was ever something seriously considered, and according to other things I've read, Les Moonves told Dawn Ostroff "no more superhero series" long before GA ever showed up on Smallville.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Maybe it is the hiatus like mentioned before, people are getting ravenous.

I dont know what it is, the hiatus is only for 3 weeks, we've gone entire summers without it getting like this.

Hiatus or not, people are always going to disagree on boards. People should be allowed to have different opinions and to “dare” to express them. That’s what discussion boards are for, and as long as those opinions are stated in a respectful way (which sadly not everyone does all the time) I don't see how that can be bad. Not everyone has to agree with everyone and, as amazing as it might appear to some people, the ones who disagree with them have their reasons for doing so and those reasons can be perfectly valid, no matter how much they differ from their own.

People must be free to give opinions and people can be free to disagree with them. That's how things usually work on discussion boards and this board is certainly no exception.

All the above IMO, of course.

That's not what I was speaking about in my initial posting that bigtree responded to. We've disagreed here all the time for the past 6 years and things have for the most part been amicable in our disagreements. Any veteran of the "Casting Wars" can attest to that. Now there just seems to be a much higher level of antagonism on the forum with people taking things a little too personally and get all in a huff if they don't get "their way." Why that's changing now, I have no idea, but the things that made this place different and fun to participate in are quickly going away.

 

[Serene]

I dont know what it is, the hiatus is only for 3 weeks, we've gone entire summers without it getting like this.

I don't think it's that bad, really. Sometimes things get a little bumpy, then the wind changes it's all fine again.
Personally, I've been busy as hell lately with personal things (house guests, state tournaments, buying homes and cats ), so I feel a little out of touch with online stuff - the hiatus doesn't help. Actually, I guess I'm glad we have a hiatus so I can get all this RL stuff resolved and settle down. Not that my life ever really settles down.

I say we all meet for drinks in the Talon thread and remind ourselves of what a superior SV board we are... usually.

 

[Whiteflag]

That's not what I was speaking about in my initial posting that bigtree responded to. We've disagreed here all the time for the past 6 years and things have for the most part been amicable in our disagreements. Any veteran of the "Casting Wars" can attest to that. Now there just seems to be a much higher level of antagonism on the forum with people taking things a little too personally and get all in a huff if they don't get "their way." Why that's changing now, I have no idea, but the things that made this place different and fun to participate in are quickly going away.

I particularly don't see a high level of antagonism here. I don't know how things were before, but I hardly see any name calling or too much bitterness.I see people disagreeing, which is entirely normal. Sometimes people react a little bit more harshly to a particular post/poster for whatever their reasons and it's up to that poster to get into a confrontation or to simply let it go. Of course not everyone can be friends with everyone on a board, or veteran posters like new ones or get along with them, but I think that's normal too. As long as there's respect, I don't see that as a big problem. People can still have fun with their friends and ignore the posters they dislike. But even those have a right to give their opinions freely and even passionately, as long as they do it with due respect.

I'm sorry you are feeling unhappy about the boards now.

 

[Zing79]

Far be it from me to jump into this frey, but Hulks got a point. One of the reasons I do more lurking then posting now is because of the increased shipper talk that takes place on the boards. It’s been a slow gradual process, but it’s happened, and it’s quite annoying (to me).

Everyone is entitled to talk about what they wish, but I can’t count the number of times now I’ve seen discussion turn to “who should be with Clark in what way”. I’ve skipped through entire pages trying to avoid it.

I realize this is an introduction to the Superman mythos for quite a few, but I do roll my eyes to anyone who suggests that girl X get more screen time with Clark -- or how girl X deserves one last run with Clark.

I really don’t understand the chatter – the best theory I can come up with (and it’s a weak theory at best), is that some of you see yourselves in certain female characters and keep hoping that ‘you’ could get the hero.

What are people hoping? That the girls are the ones who have to realize on their own that they can never be with him? Must they throw themselves on the sword for him so that their not being with Clark means something?
Again, I just don’t get it. But I do know it’s happening with more frequency here.

 

[Whiteflag]

I don't "ship" anyone with Clark. If anything, I like Clex.

But of course I respect that other people do. Everyone is entitled to their own enjoyment of the show.

 

[avidreader]

Far be it from me to jump into this frey, but Hulks got a point. One of the reasons I do more lurking then posting now is because of the increased shipper talk that takes place on the boards. It’s been a slow gradual process, but it’s happened, and it’s quite annoying (to me).

Everyone is entitled to talk about what they wish, but I can’t count the number of times now I’ve seen discussion turn to “who should be with Clark in what way”. I’ve skipped through entire pages trying to avoid it.

I realize this is an introduction to the Superman mythos for quite a few, but I do roll my eyes to anyone who suggests that girl X get more screen time with Clark -- or how girl X deserves one last run with Clark.

I really don’t understand the chatter – the best theory I can come up with (and it’s a weak theory at best), is that some of you see yourselves in certain female characters and keep hoping that ‘you’ could get the hero.

What are people hoping? That the girls are the ones who have to realize on their own that they can never be with him? Must they throw themselves on the sword for him so that their not being with Clark means something?
Again, I just don’t get it. But I do know it’s happening with more frequency here.

With all due respect I find it a little absurd that you can form an opinion like that about the posters on this site. You should check out the other sites and really see what shipper talk is all about.

Relationships are a HUGE part of this show, so its natural that the conversation would follow a course that talked about Clark's latest romantic entanglements.

Personally, for me, I just want to see Clark happy and whoever makes him happy is fine with me. I have a preference of order with the characters, but if it doesnt turn out the way I want or expect, I'm certainly not going to go on a boycott like some of the shipper sites.

I honestly dont think you'll find too many people on these Boards who think that way, maybe Kal-el8, but he's just a BIG softie when it comes to a Lois and Clark romance.

 

[AgentPat]

 

[AgentPat]

...I realize this is an introduction to the Superman mythos for quite a few, but I do roll my eyes to anyone who suggests that girl X get more screen time with Clark -- or how girl X deserves one last run with Clark.

I really don’t understand the chatter – the best theory I can come up with (and it’s a weak theory at best), is that some of you see yourselves in certain female characters and keep hoping that ‘you’ could get the hero.

Zing, you funny. You know that SV's audience is more male than female, and the superhero genre - as well as message boards that discuss it - attracts a higher percentage of males than females. If you think the shipper talk comes mostly from women, I'd have to strongly disagree with ya.

Regardless, one of SV's goals is to make the characters more relatable to viewers, which is kinda hard to do when one of those characters is a superhuman alien living on earth with nothing much better to do with his time than rounding up Zoners in-between baling hay.

Part of the appeal here is living vicariously through the actions of the characters. It's what makes them entertaining, 'cause if it were just about Clark "training" to be Superman, I'd be bored to tears.

Personally, I identify mostly with Clark, which is ironic considering he's freakin' Superman, not to mention male. LOL! I don't want to see other characters fall on their own swords to protect Clark - that's his job as a hero, after all. However, since I feel his story is what the whole show should revolve around, his happiness as a character within the presets of the mythology is what's important to me.

Having said all that, Superman is more than just a symbol when you boil it all down. He's a man that women want and a man that guys secretly want to be. Think about it.