The Fermi Paradox

[Superwoman Prime]

In 1950, a physicist by the name Enrico Fermi became frustrated at the lack of evidence for alien life. Life's main ingredients here on earth are abundant in the universe. Where are the probes of ancient civilizations? Where are the signals?

If an advanced race were to reach a tenth the speed of light maximum, they still would have had time to spread across the Milky Way long before now.

Are we all alone in the night?

Share your theories!

 

[DarkSovereignty]

Well, I'm an alien, but I ain't probing you.

 

[moviedoors]

If an advanced race were to reach a tenth the speed of light maximum, they still would have had time to spread across the Milky Way long before now.

Now there's a statement lacking a proper context.

 

[KevanG]

In the Dead Space games they mentioned that theory. Everything kept dying before they got too far along due to 'external circumstances'.

If space is supposed to be nigh infinite then it's reasonable to assume that due to the fact that we have barely anything outside our little chunk of space, no ones noticed us yet and our technology isn't anywhere near advanced enough to notice them.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Now there's a statement lacking a proper context.

Don't elaborate or anything. That's enough.

 

[moviedoors]

Not to mention, our sample size and testing methods are woefully inadequate. It's like cupping a handful of water on the beach on a moonless, cloudy night and you forgot your glasses and you take a half second look at the water in your hands and declare "there's no life in the ocean."

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Hey, Mr. Tyson.

There are an estimated 3,000,000,000 stars in the galaxy, according to Google, because I can never remember if it's 250-300 billion.

It's not so much about life in the universe, but life in at least the Milky Way. Galaxies are really, really far apart. Understandable why nobody would want to make the leap unless they came across some hardcore wormhole tech, I guess.

 

[KevanG]

Not to mention, our sample size and testing methods are woefully inadequate. It's like cupping a handful of water on the beach on a moonless, cloudy night and you forgot your glasses and you take a half second look at the water in your hands and declare "there's no life in the ocean."

Not to mention that you haven't eaten all day and you're woefully distracted due to the smell of tacos from the local taco bell.

 

[moviedoors]

Don't elaborate or anything. That's enough.

Long before what? That scenario makes massive assumptions about so many aspects of a completely hypothetical civilization that's so lacking in concrete information as to be completely meaningless.

 

[Fallen Angel]

 

[Anubis]

 

[moviedoors]

Hey, Mr. Tyson.

There are an estimated 3,000,000,000 stars in the galaxy, according to Google, because I can never remember if it's 250-300 billion.

It's not so much about life in the universe, but life in at least the Milky Way. Galaxies are really, really far apart. Understandable why nobody would want to make the leap unless they came across some hardcore wormhole tech, I guess.

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about, life in our galaxy. That's exactly where I was aiming that analogy. We still don't have a clear picture of Pluto, and we want to make assumptions about how there's probably not advanced life out there because we would have detected it already? It's ridiculous.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Long before what? That scenario makes massive assumptions about so many aspects of a completely hypothetical civilization that's so lacking in concrete information as to be completely meaningless.

Brace for "appeal to authority"... but you do realize I lifted my claims from astrophysicists, right? I am not a scientist. I can only do basic math.

Earth-like planets had the potential to exist for longer than our own earth has. Now look at the number of stars I posted above.

 

[Thundercrack85]

UFO's. That is all.

Well more specifically, the flying saucer sightings in the Summer of 1947 (and to a lesser extent the sightings in the Summer of 1952).

I'm still waiting on some documents to be declassified (that'll be the day).

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about, life in our galaxy. That's exactly where I was aiming that analogy. We still don't have a clear picture of Pluto, and we want to make assumptions about how there's probably not advanced life out there because we would have detected it already? It's ridiculous.

How, though? Many millions of years, and *zero trace of any civilization has reached us? Not so much their garbage that resembles in part something uniform and deliberate?

* a theory which I don't put much stock in is: we probably do see traces of alien life, but we "don't know what we're looking at".

 

[Teelie]

It's probable there is life out there on another planet in another solar system. I'd say it's likely. The problem is them finding us or us finding them. If the universe is near infinite then there are near infinite possibilities for another Earth-like system.

Of course the Fermi Paradox is assuming a lot in that context too. That there is a civilization so old and so capable of space travel we'd have had some contact with them.

What if there is an ancient race of people but they either have no desire or no reason to visit us or even leave their corner of the galaxy?

There are far too many assumptions on far too little data to make any certain statements about life outside this planet. We don't even know if some of the moons in our solar system host life (some hold potential) let alone what life can exist in another galaxy or even solar system in our galaxy.

 

[moviedoors]

How, though? Many millions of years, and *zero trace of any civilization has reached us? Not so much their garbage that resembles in part something uniform and deliberate?

I think you're both A) vastly overrating our abilities to detect a myriad of phenomena, objects, signals, you name it; again, no clear pictures of Pluto and it's 0.0006 light years away,and B) you're vastly under appreciating the size of our galaxy. If I follow you correctly on the garbage thing, it sounds like you'd expect an alien dumpster to just drift past the Earth. The odds of that are literally astronomical. Do you know that when the Milky Way collides with Andromeda in a few billion years, it's not going to be a chaotic mess of stars and planets colliding? The distance between stars is incomprehensible. For some discarded alien object to just drift right up to us would be a miracle.

Brace for "appeal to authority"... but you do realize I lifted my claims from astrophysicists, right?

And you realize that there is absolutely not a consensus among astrophysicists regarding the Fermi Paradox, and in fact, many have criticized it?

 

[Thundercrack85]

I don't know if it's that difficult. I mean, we're at least a century away from interstellar travel (being unrealistically optimistic here, probably), and we have already begun cataloguing all nearby potentially habitable planets.

If there are civilizations all around us, we might already be in someone else's catalogue. If they are capable of interstellar travel, the net gets even bigger.

 

[Thundercrack85]

But then I am one of the few people here who (at least openly) entertains the idea that they may have already been here. So that's not really a leap for me to make, as it might be for others.

 

[moviedoors]

I don't know if it's that difficult. I mean, we're at least a century away from interstellar travel (being unrealistically optimistic here, probably), and we have already begun cataloguing all nearby potentially habitable planets.

All? Not at all. We repeatedly keep discovering that our assumptions about the number of exoplanets is all kinds of wrong. And our current methods are not going to lead us to cataloging all of them. We have so many breakthroughs ahead of us.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I meant, we are in the process of cataloguing. Our methods are evolving.

 

[C. Lee]

There is a lot of space.....in space. So maybe other life hasn't been in the same space as the space we occupy when we were occupying it.

 

[NickNitro]

Can this thread please be serious and not a bunch of obnoxious remarks

I like talking about this stuff.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

I think you're both A) vastly overrating our abilities to detect a myriad of phenomena, objects, signals, you name it; again, no clear pictures of Pluto and it's 0.0006 light years away,and B) you're vastly under appreciating the size of our galaxy. If I follow you correctly on the garbage thing, it sounds like you'd expect an alien dumpster to just drift past the Earth. The odds of that are literally astronomical. Do you know that when the Milky Way collides with Andromeda in a few billion years, it's not going to be a chaotic mess of stars and planets colliding? The distance between stars is incomprehensible. For some discarded alien object to just drift right up to us would be a miracle.

One piece of debris, yes. But a space-faring civilization would have plenty. Over many thousands of years. Millions, even. The many millions of years they had the potential to exist.

And you realize that there is absolutely not a consensus among astrophysicists regarding the Fermi Paradox, and in fact, many have criticized it?

People criticize the Drake Equation, but the Fermi Paradox is a legitimate question. Any self-respecting physicist has paid thought to the likeliest answer.

And the facts preceding those varying answers, such as the size and age of the galaxy are widely agreed on within small ranges (100,000 light-years across, 13 billion years, something like that).

Your "the galaxy is so huge" doesn't answer for anything. Because to repeat myself, earth-like planets had every reason to exist long before it would've taken a civilization to spread and colonize the Milky Way.

 

[C. Lee]

Can this thread please be serious and not a bunch of obnoxious remarks

I like talking about this stuff.

I am serious. The universe is big. We have only been able to see a miniscule part of it...and most of that was the last couple of decades. It's like going to the middle of the Sahara desert and examining one square inch of it, and then if you don't find anything alive in that inch saying "Well, there's no life in the Sahara desert."