Justice League Zack Snyder’s Original Justice League Sequels Plans Discussion Thread

[herolee10]

With Joss's theatrical cut being so terrible, I had legitimately forgotten the issues that I previously had with Snyder's creative decisions as well.

Honestly, my original excitement for Snyder's cut is pratically gone. After reading what he originally had in mind for the DCEU and Superman's character, I'm truly thankful that he's no longer in control of the franchise.

Zack literally had ONE chance to give us a proper Superman in THIS film. Seeing as how there's not likely to be any live action Justice League films within the near future (e.g. 10 years), would it have killed him to have Superman show up in his traditional outfit? His so called logic for Superman's black costume makes NO SENSE whatsoever. The fact that he knows there won't be any future installments to wrap up Superman's character arc is even worse.

Of course, none of that matters since his original arc for Superman was terrible from the start. This is why I wish that Superman could have gotten a great character arc, spread across several films like Captain America did in the MCU.



Since I had waited 4 years to see this, I'll still watch his cut if not to just move on from this divisive era of DC films.

 

[SupermanFan]

@herolee10 he’s confirmed this morning on the FilmJunkee show that those plans were initial and how it’s a process. He’s even said those plans evolved back then so these aren’t what would have happened anyway.

 

[moviefreak]

Snyder just dropped that the handwriting on those whiteboards is actually Geoff's.

After seeing the storyboard, I knew that the art work is Jim Lee but the writing looked nothing like Snyder's. I was wondering who was it. Damn it's G Johns again. lol

Made me wonder about the thought process between these two guys while they pen this particular storyboard. I would guess that it was well before Affleck brought in Terrio.

 

[Deck Rickard]

After seeing the storyboard, I knew that the art work is Jim Lee but the writing looked nothing like Snyder's. I was wondering who was it. Damn it's G Johns again. lol

Made me wonder about the thought process between these two guys while they pen this particular storyboard. I would guess that it was well before Affleck brought in Terrio.

I didn’t read the chickenscratch but the transcribed version said Terrio and Snyder came up with this together. I guess it was Johns who wrote out the outline but it sounds like Terrio was involved unless that was wrong?

 

[moviefreak]

I didn’t read the chickenscratch but the transcribed version said Terrio and Snyder came up with this together. I guess it was Johns who wrote out the outline but it sounds like Terrio was involved unless that was wrong?

IIRC, Goyer was the initial writer and he penned the first draft before Terrio was brought on board and that was quite obviously due to Affleck. Terrio supposedly to clean up the script.

I think I remember story about Affleck writing a bit before bringing Terrio in. Affleck himself is a good writer.

That storyboard has to be before Terrio was hired and I think he expanded on the Lex storyline. The storyboarding was probably a separate process from the actual writing. These soryboard processes are speculations, no confirmation on who did what. lol

 

[Micromind]

It was an evolving, collaborative effort, which included Zack Snyder, Chris Terrio, Geoff Johns, some more DC staff and WB Execs. (And, I guess Ben Affleck too.)

Why involve so many people ? Because it was a plan for a series of movies, not just one movie.

 

[Alonsovich]

I'm starting to think that they didn't deviate as much as we think from the original plan in the TC. I mean, that Legion of Doom tease at the end is very consistent with what was to happen in the outlined sequels.

 

[idiot09]

I'm starting to think that they didn't deviate as much as we think from the original plan in the TC. I mean, that Legion of Doom tease at the end is very consistent with what was to happen in the outlined sequels.

The LOD part was a Whedon reshoot, tho. I think the LOD tease was somewhere else in the movie(or maybe it was not but he was aware of the plans), and he repurposed the The Batman tease to the LOD one.

I think the studio still wanted a JL2, and were happy with the broad strokes, but GJ probably wanted Whedon to write and direct. That's the darkest timeline lol

 

[Alonsovich]

The LOD part was a Whedon reshoot, tho. I think the LOD tease was somewhere else in the movie(or maybe it was not but he was aware of the plans), and he repurposed the The Batman tease to the LOD one.

I think the studio still wanted a JL2, and were happy with the broad strokes, but GJ probably wanted Whedon to write and direct. That's the darkest timeline lol

Yeah, probably would've been a very different movie, but still... that tease is very telling about GJ's intentions.

 

[moviefreak]

Seem to me it went like this:

1. Goyer penned first draft.
2. Snyder, G Johns & Jim Lee storyboarding.
3. Goyer departed.
4. Affleck joined in.
5. Terrio joined in, helped in both storyboarding & scripting.
6. Another storyboard?
7. WB revisions to make it a comedy, G Johns added his revisions. Whedon brought in. That was the 214 min version.
8. Snyder departed. Whedon took over.
9. Whedon 80 pages rewrite & reshoot.
10. Moustache-gate!

Snyder joined in @00:31:22 in filmjunkee livestream with Ray Porter (Uxas/Darkseid):


Snyder doesn't consider the storyboards as spoilers as the actual story is different now.

The storyboards were motorised in his office and he used to hide them the WB studio, with G Johns' help. wtf.

 

[Calvin Ellis]

The sequel ideas sound great expect for the Lois and Bruce plotline. If they ever move forward with the sequels either in live action or comicbook format they will need to drop that angle. there is no reason what so ever for Bruce and Lois to hookup let alone fall in love with one another. At the very most I would accept is them kissing out of their grief but Lois realizing it's wrong right away and pulling and walking away like how she did in the comics when she kissed that guy during the Funeral for a Friend arc or like when Tim and Cassie did that after Conner's death but realized it was wrong. I think that Lois should never carry Bruce's baby or only leave Bruce because Clark needs her. That makes Bruce look like a bigger jerk then what they did in The Killing Joke with him sleeping with Babs and leaving her high and dry the next day. Not only that having something like that is a slap in the face to Superman fans everywhere. I'm al for sequels to Snyder's JL in any format but I would rather watch 10 more seasons of Supergirl, Smallville, & Superman & Lois then to see that plot happen and if you know my feelings towards those shows like @flickchick85 does that is saying a lot.

 

[SiegePerilous]

Geoff Johns isn't a great Superman writer in general, so it's not surprising to me that him and Snyder being in charge of a character arc for him is a match made in Hell.

 

[dhandler01]

I think it is safe to say that all involved with this whether it is Snyder, Terrio, Goyer, Johns...they all had no idea what the heck they were doing.

 

[shauner111]

I’d be curious to see more if about 50-60 percent was scrapped. But a graphic novel sounds better to me.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Geoff Johns isn't a great Superman writer in general, so it's not surprising to me that him and Snyder being in charge of a character arc for him is a match made in Hell.

Man, I'm not a fan of either of them but I would love to learn more specific details (from both parties POV) about the creative feuds between Johns and Snyder. What a... bizarre combination of voices. It's really easy to see how that fell apart.

Johns does have a rich, storied tradition of ****ing on and retconning other, more adventurous writers ideas . Still blame him for his role in dismantling DC's legacy characters. Dude wrote a Watchmen sequel and contorted it into a metaphor for how Alan Moore ruined superhero comics and how inherently superior mainstream DC is.

 

[idiot09]

7. WB revisions to make it a comedy, G Johns added his revisions. Whedon brought in. That was the 214 min version.

I think you are 99% spot on. After talking to someone in the know, apparently the only difference between 214 and the 4hr cut is that 214 was shorter because Zack couldnt show WB a 4hr cut. Later when he got the budget and freedom, he put in black suit Superman, scary Steppenwolf and bigger AR for the 4hr cut along with some additional photography. But the 214 was the Terrio+Zack version, and that's the b/w one he had at home.

The 2hr20min version was the compromised Terrio+Johns cut. Zack put together the theatrical as per studio's notes, and wanted to release the 214(the mostly uncompromised version) as the ultimate cut.

 

[spideyfan77]

The more I think about it: its not just bruce/lois subplot which is a huge storyline for those movies.

1. Dont like how there isnt much superman and WW and aquaman in them. Pretty much sidelined for most of the story as they died.
2. Superman being bad for JL sequels after he just came back to life in the first JL movie. Can we have a good superman that had his arc complete by the first JL movie?
3. I love batman but its pretty much batman movies with JL help again as he is the hero of these movies and it focuses on him
4. Knightmare storyline for much of the sequels isnt really a smart idea for first time JL movies.
5. GL storyline and introduction is just weird
6. Superman talking about clark is no more is just strange
7. Amazons/WW being killed by gas like that is just way too easy plus how did she find themiscrya (same for aquaman)
8. Dont like batman dying in general at the end

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Happy he wanted to bring Dr. Maru back and would love for Jenkins to do the same. Thought she was a really cool character.

 

[idiot09]

The more I think about it: its not just bruce/lois subplot which is a huge storyline for those movies.

1. Dont like how there isnt much superman and WW and aquaman in them. Pretty much sidelined for most of the story as they died.
2. Superman being bad for JL sequels after he just came back to life in the first JL movie. Can we have a good superman that had his arc complete by the first JL movie?
3. I love batman but its pretty much batman movies with JL help again as he is the hero of these movies and it focuses on him
4. Knightmare storyline for much of the sequels isnt really a smart idea for first time JL movies.
5. GL storyline and introduction is just weird
6. Superman talking about clark is no more is just strange
7. Amazons/WW being killed by gas like that is just way too easy plus how did she find themiscrya (same for aquaman)
8. Dont like batman dying in general at the end

1. Its just an outline, which would be fleshed out, and after WW and Aquaman's success, i'm sure there would be more of them. Also similar thing happened in IW, a lot of characters died and were sidelined.
2. Superman is only going to be bad for half of a movie(2A). The rest 1.5 part he is not going to be evil. Also, Superman fighting the league was the most liked part of JL, its all about execution. I didnt like how Thor was treated in Endgame after a trauma, but people are far more uptight about Superman.
3. Agreed, dont like this part, needs more focus on other characters.
4. Again, Knightmare only for part of 2A and not in 2. Knightmare is interesting tho imo.
5. Agreed. Glad he is being introduced earlier.
6. Agreed. Glad its changed now. Very Manhattan-esque concept, not sure it makes sense to me, but could have been interesting.
7. WW's death needs to be more dramatic. Would prefer is she dies after an epic fight with Cheetah.
8. I like it. Let Batman sacrifice himself, and Robin take up the mantle.

Just my thoughts.

 

[idiot09]

The thing I would change is the Superman and Batman arcs(both have been changed as far as I know). Here's what I would do different :

- Clark finds his place in the world after JL. Is happily married with Lois. The world has accepted him as a hero. He's having the best time of his life.
- Bruce after putting together the league, knows he cant go on forever. Take a new Robin under his belt, a young orphan named Carrie Kelly.
- **** goes down, Clark asks Bruce to protect Lois in his batcave. Darkseid arrives.
- Batman can only choose to save one...Robin or Lois. He choses Robin. He fails in saving either. Superman blames him.
- The rest plays out similarly...Bruce goes back in time to protect Lois and sacrifices himself. Robin takes up the mantle in future. Clark names his son Jonathan Bruce Kent.

Although I understand why ZS went the Manhattan route with Supes with him slowly drifting away from humanity(and could be interesting too), I think this makes more sense with his arc in BvS-JL and will hit the eventual turn to dark side under the anti-life harder for the audience, as we see his perfect life being taken away from him.

PS : Surprised no one is talking about Flash being at 2 places at once. That is an insanely cool idea.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

To be fair to Zack, a lot of this is better even if it wouldn't have been for everybody (myself included) if Superman's arc was changed. That's the obvious weak link among the silly, over the top apocalyptic fun. Take out the literal and metaphorical cuckoldry of Superman and I don't have too many huge issues with the basic outline.

 

[Eddie Dean]

It's really very close to Infinity War and Endgame if you take out the Evil Supercuck part.

 

[idiot09]

It's really very close to Infinity War and Endgame if you take out the Evil Supercuck part.

It sounds like a conspiracy theory and I never believed it but...there's a lot of coincidences in the similarities between this and IW/Endgame(even with BvS and CW). Here's what we know :

- GJ was involved in the mapping out of the arc in 2014.
- GJ is close friends with Feige.
- Feige has said before he went in the Civil War direction, after he heard DC were doing BvS, so he does take inspiration from other ideas.

Now leak sounds heinous, and even though I dont like GJ anymore, he's been a DC man for life. I wouldnt be suprised if he was just geeking out with Feige and was like "You know there's this cool thing we're doing...".

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I really do think it's a coincidence, the way Infinity War ends is fairly typical of the first half of a big epic finale story and the primary inspiration they claim for Endgame was All Good Things from Next Generation.

My opinion of Feige as a creative voice isn't terribly high but I just don't see why he would need to plagiarize plans from Snyder/Johns/Terrio? Are Marvel and DC really literal, direct competition? Because barring release date slots I'm not sure they're massively relevant to each other.

Happy to see someone with a perspective on that which doesn't paint Johns as a cartoonish psychopath though. Not a fan of his and his interactions with Ray sound super gross and awkward but not big into the way people (including Snyder) get caricatured.

 

[king666]

To be fair to Zack, a lot of this is better even if it wouldn't have been for everybody (myself included) if Superman's arc was changed. That's the obvious weak link among the silly, over the top apocalyptic fun. Take out the literal and metaphorical cuckoldry of Superman and I don't have too many huge issues with the basic outline.

The thing is, the only interesting conflict in the outline is Bruce falling in love with Lois and then being forced to resuscitate her dead superboyfriend. If you take that out it's just a bunch of guys in costumes fighting plot devices.

Just to be clear, I think Bruce & Lois is a terrible idea for this franchise and the DCU, but it is kind of the big conflict of the whole saga imo.