2013-2014 NBA Discussion Thread: You got Spur'd. - Part 3

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[Anubis]

I've been a fan for quite a while, Nell. You really need to stop speaking as if you are the voice for an entire group of people. You did this very thing in the wrestling thread and then accused us of bullying you. But the truth is the demeanor of your posts and the authoritative way you word them rubs people the wrong way. Then when you get called out, even by someone not insulting you in any way, you get defensive. You honestly just suck the fun out of conversation. It would be nice if you stopped making blanket statements like all heat fans are bandwagoners.

Nah, just about 3/4ths of em.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

All I said is that the next "real" Heat fan I meet will be the first.

Because I've never met a Heat fan that was a fan before LeBron.

At BEST they were a fan in 2006, before running off to Cleveland until 2010.

If my experience offends you... *shrug*

And where you say I "suck the fun" out of conversation - I have the same conversations, with the same "tone" (as if you can tell tone over text on a screen) on other forums, and with people face to face, and never once have a problem.

Whether it's wrestling, sports, or X-Men, it is literally only THIS FORUM that I have problems with people when I express my opinion. You can say I'm authoritative, but I only talk to people the way they talk to me, and treat people the way they treat me.

So... *shrug*

But whatever. I'll keep my opinions to myself

Go Magic.

 

[Anubis]

Heh, Magic.

No wonder you're filled with so much bile.

 

[JaD]

All I said is that the next "real" Heat fan I meet will be the first.

Dry your eyes, Nell. It doesn't justify what you've done.

Because I've never met a Heat fan that was a fan before LeBron.

I take it you at least run background checks on these people before coming to your conclusion, right? I know a great private investigator name J.J. Gittes.

And where you say I "suck the fun" out of conversation - I have the same conversations, with the same "tone" (as if you can tell tone over text on a screen) on other forums, and with people face to face, and never once have a problem.

Whether it's wrestling, sports, or X-Men, it is literally only THIS FORUM that I have problems with people when I express my opinion. You can say I'm authoritative, but I only talk to people the way they talk to me, and treat people the way they treat me.

Well, I personally think tone can be read for the most part in text and I only bump into you in here so I can't speak for anyone else... But when you build a reputation in the NBA thread of attacking a fanbase or player with no real purpose or depth (unless it's pulled out of you) I'm sure some will want to push back.

I don't know what other forums you're on but I'm surprised if you say you've never had people take issue with you. Are these "Fu** the Heat/LeBron" forums?

So... *shrug*

But whatever. I'll keep my opinions to myself

Go Magic.

By all means, speak your opinions when you want. I myself, enjoy talking about this stuff, especially when it comes to guys like LeBron. I've already mentioned this but I find him one of the most fascinating people in sports. In a slightly different, more negative way, I'm sure the same goes for you since you speak so much about him at times.

Almost as if he owes you child support or something.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

With LeBron, I talk on Facebook and to my friends, including those same Miami Heat fans who are only there cuz of LeBron and admit as much. I say the same stuff to them that I say on here, and it's taken as playful banter. They don't get all pissed at me for ragging on LeBron. It's sports related trash talking, all done in fun.

For X-Men, I found another fanboy forum that doesn't get all pissed off when I talk about X-Men 3 or Origins being good movies. They understand, respect, and welcome my difference of opinion, even if it is different from the majority there, and have yet to have one problem there from people giving me crap for my opinion.

And I say all the same crap I say in the wrestling thread to all my wrestling fan friends, and they don't get all pissed off because I like Miz or don't like Cesaro.

It really is only the Hype that gives me problems with my opinions. I come on here, or go on the Facebook page, and everyone and their mom loses their **** at my opinions.

I speak those same opinions anywhere else, and I'm met with respect, and civil disagreement.

So if that makes me the problem, so be it.

 

[weezerspider]

Three super stars took less money and had to shrink their egos for a better chance to win...how the hell is that a bad thing? I am by no means a Heat fan, but I really don't get the hate. LeBron's a top 10 player all-time already. Also, MJ's championship runs included two HOFers (and a PG that's not Mario Chalmers lol), Magic had two HOFers, Bird had two HOFers as well. I am certainly not going to say LeBron's help in Miami has been bad, but Wade has battle injuries the whole time and who the hell has Chris Bosh in the HOF?! I don't see how LeBron's help is leagues ahead of the other guys' help.

Furthermore, no ones MJ, but MJ. He changed the game. He'll always be the GOAT unless someone else changes the game. He's like Citizen Kane, which changed the way films were made and cemented itself as the greatest film of all time. No one is going to be MJ. It's not a fair comparison to MJ or LeBron or Kobe or any of the 'next MJ's

 

[JaD]

With LeBron, I talk on Facebook and to my friends, including those same Miami Heat fans who are only there cuz of LeBron and admit as much. I say the same stuff to them that I say on here, and it's taken as playful banter. They don't get all pissed at me for ragging on LeBron. It's sports related trash talking, all done in fun.

Speaking to your friends and people on online forums are pretty different boats. People who post here (or maybe not as much) may come across some of your posts, look at them and say "Who's this a**hole calling all Heat fans bandwagoners, I've been repping since 'Zo!"

In the end though, and just in my opinion at least, you lack substance when it comes to some of the things you write. They can sometimes come off as "There is no other opinion or correct answer other than what I just said".

Then again, that's probably the main problem of every forum. I have the same issue with Matt though to be honest, you and him sometimes come off as tag-team brothers, only coming through here to bash something.

For X-Men, I found another fanboy forum that doesn't get all pissed off when I talk about X-Men 3 or Origins being good movies. They understand, respect, and welcome my difference of opinion, even if it is different from the majority there, and have yet to have one problem there from people giving me crap for my opinion.

There's always some idiots here and there on this site, it seems like you've been here long enough to know that. Hell, one of my favorite threads for this type of issue is the 'State your unpopular film opinion', the people there know how to at least be respectful.

As a sidenote I'll add I don't mind people calling X3 okay, but Origins, ughh, God-awful dude (but that could be something for another day and even now I'm interested in your opinions there)

And I say all the same crap I say in the wrestling thread to all my wrestling fan friends, and they don't get all pissed off because I like Miz or don't like Cesaro.

It really is only the Hype that gives me problems with my opinions. I come on here, or go on the Facebook page, and everyone and their mom loses their **** at my opinions.

I speak those same opinions anywhere else, and I'm met with respect, and civil disagreement.

So if that makes me the problem, so be it.

To level with you, I've had my issues with this forum too. I'm surprised I still post here as much as I do. I'm rarely replied to here and all the friends I met and got to know are all gone. There is a lot of variety here that I do enjoy though, that's for sure.

But to go back to NBA at least, you did say you hate MJ, Kobe, and LeBron (and seemingly every successful sports franchise in the last 50 years), which IMO isn't a good look when you want to trash one but praise the other. You also like Origins Wolverine.... (Ok, I'm just messing with you there )

 

[mkilban2]

You brought up people bandwagoning from Miami to Cleveland from 06-2010 then back to Miami in an earlier post. As a Cleveland fan and citizen I can speak from my own experience that I know zero people that did that. I don't even recall any bandwagon fans while LeBron was here. Maybe you were talking about the nation following winning teams and claiming them as their own, which is certainly true to an extent, but I never give those people credit as sports fans anyways.

If youre a fan of the Yankees, Heat, and Patriots but live in Ohio or whatever you're just a loser haha.

 

[runawayboulder]

Football is different than other sports. Fans of teams are all over the place.

 

[SolarTiger]

Speaking of Hall of Fame, why the hell is Mitch Richmond getting inducted this year? That is absolutely mind-blowing that he's in, he was a good player but Hall of Fame worthy? Chris Webber was passed over and he at least was the best player on a contending team in the Western Conference for several years. And he had a great college career at Michigan.

 

[Mister J]

The Basketball HoF seems to have a lower threshold than other sports. Mitch had a very good career. He takes a hit because, outside of that early Run TMC action, he was stuck on **** teams. As an individual, he brought it though. Routinely a 20+ PPG scorer, versatile game, good defender, a handful of All-NBA nods (2nd/3rd Team) and a good run of All-Star spots. Throw in a good college career and some Olympic medals and you figure he gets the call, given what the criteria seems to be.

I expect Webber, as well as Tim Hardaway, to be inducted at some point too.

 

[kane9321]

The Basketball HoF seems to have a lower threshold than other sports. Mitch had a very good career. He takes a hit because, outside of that early Run TMC action, he was stuck on **** teams. As an individual, he brought it though. Routinely a 20+ PPG scorer, versatile game, good defender, a handful of All-NBA nods (2nd/3rd Team) and a good run of All-Star spots. Throw in a good college career and some Olympic medals and you figure he gets the call, given what the criteria seems to be.

I expect Webber, as well as Tim Hardaway, to be inducted at some point too.

RUN TMC...I MISS THOSE DAYS

MY WARRIORSt:

 

[TheBat812]

I wonder if the Heat will pull a Lakers and keep Wade for the sake of rewarding him for bringing huge success to their franchise, or if they're serious about contending and will get rid of him - he's no longer a superstar, hell he's barely an above average player at this point with the legs of a 60 year old.

And if Lebron switches teams again (even if it's back to Cleveland), it'll be a joke.

 

[Mister J]

Naturally, I don't speak privy to any inside knowledge, but Wade isn't going anywhere. He'll likely take a longer deal (4-5 yrs) to get more money than the 40M+ he could get over the next two; lesser on an annual basis.

The Finals are what will stick in people's mind, but prior to that, he had a very efficient 19 PPG, 50+ FG% season, even continuing on through the ECF. They just need to scale back his responsibilities and the structure of the offense to accommodate. He can still be a piece in pushing forward.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Speaking to your friends and people on online forums are pretty different boats. People who post here (or maybe not as much) may come across some of your posts, look at them and say "Who's this a**hole calling all Heat fans bandwagoners, I've been repping since 'Zo!"

In the end though, and just in my opinion at least, you lack substance when it comes to some of the things you write. They can sometimes come off as "There is no other opinion or correct answer other than what I just said".

Then again, that's probably the main problem of every forum. I have the same issue with Matt though to be honest, you and him sometimes come off as tag-team brothers, only coming through here to bash something.

There's always some idiots here and there on this site, it seems like you've been here long enough to know that. Hell, one of my favorite threads for this type of issue is the 'State your unpopular film opinion', the people there know how to at least be respectful.

As a sidenote I'll add I don't mind people calling X3 okay, but Origins, ughh, God-awful dude (but that could be something for another day and even now I'm interested in your opinions there)To level with you, I've had my issues with this forum too. I'm surprised I still post here as much as I do. I'm rarely replied to here and all the friends I met and got to know are all gone. There is a lot of variety here that I do enjoy though, that's for sure.

But to go back to NBA at least, you did say you hate MJ, Kobe, and LeBron (and seemingly every successful sports franchise in the last 50 years), which IMO isn't a good look when you want to trash one but praise the other. You also like Origins Wolverine.... (Ok, I'm just messing with you there )

I have plenty of substance. I have already supported why I feel the way I do about LeBron.

People don't have to agree with that, and that's okay. But to get hostile because of my opinion on LeBron, and why I think that, that's when I start to become aggressive.

I don't post much in the NBA thread, no, because quite frankly, LeBron, Wade, Bosh, and the Miami Heat single handedly killed my interest in the NBA the past few years. That's particularly why I hate LeBron so much, because his course of action with The Decision, and the collusion with Wade and Bosh to form this super team, set a new precedent among superstars that is now sweeping through the league, from Dwight Howard, to Carmelo Anthony, and even Chris Paul has been involved in his own little way as well.

Superstars calling the shots has been a part of the NBA for as long as I can remember, this is true. T-Mac, Vince Carter, and tons of other guys that did the same thing. And of course you had the season of Karl Malone and Gary Payton trying to ring hop on the Lakers.

But what LeBron did amplified it and took it to a whole other level. With superstars doing what LeBron did, and what Dwight Howard and Carmelo Anthony have followed suit doing, it makes a league that already lacks parity even WORSE for parity, by having all of these stars collude together to form their own super teams in whatever big market they find most appealing.

It might as well not be NBA franchises anymore, and just be street ball. Name captains, pick your team, and go shirts versus skins on the blacktop.

That's what LeBron's actions have set a precedent for, and that is why I hold so much hatred for LeBron and the Heat. It is actively ruining the league that I love so much.

You disagree with that? That's fine. But you can't say that I don't have substance when I just backed up why I feel that way. It's not "I hate LeBron cuz he's good". He used to be probably my favorite superstar in the league. I rooted for him to win in Cleveland (until, of course, Orlando became a major player in the East, and LeBron and the Cavs were in our way). But then the "he has no help" complaints started coming out of nowhere, he pulled what he pulled to go to Miami, and then the "he has no help!" complaints STILL follow him. It's absolutely ridiculous. The man's actions, sports media, and his fans, have all driven me to hate the guy. Then you add in the fact that people are trying to make him out to be the best thing to ever happen to the game, and then I DO have to compare him to Jordan, or Kobe, or someone else who has a much better legacy than LeBron will ever have. One can acknowledge the greatness that LeBron has, and still recognize that his legacy is nowhere near many of the greats that came before him. Because, like it or not, the attitude and mentality a player exhibits DOES factor into his legacy, and LeBron's actions to form the Heat the way he did indicate a much different mentality than guys like Jordan and Kobe before him.

And as far as hating good, successful franchises, I don't hate them because they are good and successful. Like I said, I like the Spurs just fine. I liked the Pistons in the mid '00's when they were winning. If my 49ers aren't involved, I cheer for the Steelers in the NFL. I like and respect plenty of good franchises.

I hate Jordan and the Bulls because they were the top players in the Eastern Conference during Orlando's first run of prominence. If it weren't for Jordan and the Bulls, Orlando could have had more success in the 90's. Jordan and the Bulls were the main team stopping Orlando from having success during the Shaq and Penny days (Nick Anderson's 4 missed free throws didn't help either). But what Jordan and what the Chicago Bulls accomplished in the 90's is undeniable. It is by far one of the greatest accomplishments I've seen in my lifetime of watching sports. They might not be the greatest dynasty of all time, but they damn well sure might be the greatest dynasty of my lifetime.

I hate Kobe and the Lakers, largely for Shaq bolting Orlando, and largely because when I saw Kobe (in those early '00's runs), I saw the living embodiment of arrogance and entitlement. His entire attitude and aura in those days was a huge turnoff. Doesn't help that they basically cheated their way to the NBA Finals as well, in that Western Conference Finals series against the Kings.

Kobe's last 2 championships, however, including the one where he beat my Magic, he showed me a different side of him, and while I wouldn't call myself a Kobe fan today, he did shake off that aura of arrogance about him, and I actually have a level of respect for him now that I didn't used to have. I even rooted for Kobe and the Lakers in that last NBA Finals series against the Celtics.

I hated the New England Patriots, largely for the same reason I hate the Heat. I liked 'em during their first 2 Super Bowl runs. But the last one, like Kobe, was filled with arrogance and entitlement. Then came their 16-0 season, where they pretty much played classless football, and there was the whole Spygate incident. So like the Miami Heat, I saw the Patriots and their actions as bad for the league as a whole. But they suffered that Super Bowl loss to the Giants, and then suffered the Brady injury the next season, and they seemed entirely humbled. Like Kobe and the Lakers, I don't necessarily LIKE the Patriots, but they have regained my respect. And like the Lakers, I did root for them in their last Super Bowl against the Giants.

If you don't think my opinion has substance, then I really don't know what to tell you. I really couldn't care less if people agree with my opinion or not. People still think that's what I get mad about around here, and I can't help but laugh.

 

[mkilban2]

I've just never thought what LeBron or any players that join another team has been wrong. I love it from a pure game of basketball fan standpoint. I Luke it less from a fan of a struggling team, but its great for the game in my opinion. That first year of the Big 3 team up was magical on the court, such pretty basketball being played.

Think of the high competition in the West, all those top 8-10 teams are packed with multiple impact guys, the competitive levels are off the charts. Those thrilling Warriors - Clippers games are filled with pereniall and future all stars on each team.

I'm all for players teaming with each other and managements trying to make it happen as well. Only makes the game that much better to watch for me.

In some sports, baseball for example, its hard for me to watch a game if its not my team playing. I can watch the Indians every day they play and not got sick of it, but if a Oakland - LA game is on I can barely watch an inning. At least in the NBA if my team isn't playing I can still be just as interedted watching another game between good teams.

 

[Doc Samson]

And if Lebron switches teams again (even if it's back to Cleveland), it'll be a joke.

I don't think so. In fact, I think it would go a long way in fixing a craze he started, that I do think hurts the NBA to a certain degree. I tend to agree with Nell in some regards on this:

I don't post much in the NBA thread, no, because quite frankly, LeBron, Wade, Bosh, and the Miami Heat single handedly killed my interest in the NBA the past few years. That's particularly why I hate LeBron so much, because his course of action with The Decision, and the collusion with Wade and Bosh to form this super team, set a new precedent among superstars that is now sweeping through the league, from Dwight Howard, to Carmelo Anthony, and even Chris Paul has been involved in his own little way as well.

Said it before, I'll say it again. The "Decision" was definitely in poor taste to Cleveland fans, but I think most people used that as a smoke screen for the real underlying issue some (myself included) had about it.

Every bad team in the league has the same problem, not enough good players. Almost every superstar, at some point, had to deal with that reality and overcome it. What Lebron did, in the prime of his career, was willingly go to another superstar's team, a Top 3 player at the time mind you, along with another All-Star, in hopes of easing that burden. It just took a level of competitiveness away from those guys IMO.

People love to downgrade those Cavs teams, but the fact is, they had the best record in the NBA those last two years and no, it wasn't all due to Lebron. That team was built to his strengths, spot up shooters & rebounders, while he orchestrated from the top of the key. The most successful lineup since he's been in Miami statistically consisted of basically the same makeup, with no Wade on the floor.

When he left, there were a whole host of injuries and other players who left with him, which explained the rapid decline but the point is, he had enough to win more regular season games than anyone else. He simply wasn't a good enough player at the time to get over the hump. I believe Lebron of '13-'14, with that same Cleveland cast, gets to the NBA Finals. But not trying to fight through that spoke volumes to me about not only his competitive spirit, but that of his peers too.

If Melo somehow does wind up anywhere else but New York, that's Toronto, Cleveland, New York, Denver, Orlando & New Orleans that lost their star players for no reason other than winning where they were was too hard. This constant analysis of what Lebron might do now is nauseating. He already got to Miami, now there's all these other "factors" that need to happen or else he'll bolt again? It's like c'mon man, stick it out. Or go back to Cleveland and stick it out. But frankly, I'm tired of hearing about all the things that need to be right for Lebron, or any other superstar, to stay in one place. It's called adversity, that's why they pay you the big bucks, to fight through it and elevate your team to the next level...

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Oh Christ you just articulated everything so much better than I have, and explained perfectly well why I hate LeBron and the Heat.

 

[mkilban2]

Cleveland wasnt too far off from sneaking into the 8th seed this past season, which isn't saying much in yhe East, but with or without LeBron going forward I'm happy with the core we have in place (although that could change in the offseason with Deng and Hawes). But we have the no.1 pick which could be decent trade bait or turn into a good player. I'd like to see LeBron on the team again, but who wouldnt want the best player in the league on theirs lol.

I think we probably don't see any big moves this offseason, Melo stays in NY, Love stays in Minnesota, and Lebron and co. remain another year in Miami.

 

[runawayboulder]

Naturally, I don't speak privy to any inside knowledge, but Wade isn't going anywhere. He'll likely take a longer deal (4-5 yrs) to get more money than the 40M+ he could get over the next two; lesser on an annual basis.

The Finals are what will stick in people's mind, but prior to that, he had a very efficient 19 PPG, 50+ FG% season, even continuing on through the ECF. They just need to scale back his responsibilities and the structure of the offense to accommodate. He can still be a piece in pushing forward.

Wade left after the exit meetings without speaking to the media which is something he's never done. That tells me he didn't like what he heard.

 

[Erzengel]

 

[SolarTiger]

Amazing.

 

[Anubis]

Cleveland wasnt too far off from sneaking into the 8th seed this past season, which isn't saying much in yhe East, but with or without LeBron going forward I'm happy with the core we have in place (although that could change in the offseason with Deng and Hawes). But we have the no.1 pick which could be decent trade bait or turn into a good player. I'd like to see LeBron on the team again, but who wouldnt want the best player in the league on theirs lol.

I think we probably don't see any big moves this offseason, Melo stays in NY, Love stays in Minnesota, and Lebron and co. remain another year in Miami.

Oh, Deng's gone.