A.R.G.U.S, CHECKMATE or CADMUS?

[John-An]

Which government organization will be the one that Amanda Waller is in charge?

I'd say A.R.G.U.S

What's your opinion on this matter?

 

[The Sage]

I'd go with Checkmate since Arrow's Waller leads A.R.G.U.S. It'd be another good way of distinguishing the two versions.

 

[Harry Dresden]

I want CADMUS. We had Checkmate in Smallville and A.R.G.U.S in Arrow. For live-action, I'd say it's time for the return of CADMUS, since there's a lot of potential there for future movies besides Suicide Squad.

 

[GREEN =w= DAY]

i say go with CADMUS

nice little homage back the DCAU days

speaking of which, i recently picked up the entire Justice League animated series at Best Buy for $35 t:

 

[Fallen Angel]

 

[KillerWolf]

And this reminds me how much of a geek I am not.

I honestly don't remember ever hearing of any of these organizations. To which one of these Waller usually belongs?

 

[Boy Scout]

ARGUS or CADMUS, I'd say.

 

[HaplessHenchman]

Went with CADMUS as a hearkening back to the DCAU.

 

[erehwon0]

You forgot about SHADE.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

And this reminds me how much of a geek I am not.

I honestly don't remember ever hearing of any of these organizations. To which one of these Waller usually belongs?

Technically.... All three.

Checkmate, or Task Force X, is the traditional one. A secret agency divided into information (White) and field (Black) teams. Amanda Waller held the position of White Queen, the highest position available on the information side of things. Max Lord held the position of Black King, the highest position of the field. The Suicide Squad is a subservient organisation.

ARGUS is a sort of modern iteration. They are more friendly to the Justice League (they fund them, as well as the two other Justice Leagues).

CADMUS is just the DCAU version of Task Force X. But traditionally CADMUS is a cloning program, particularly for Guardian of Metropolis.

I say..... Why choose?

Checkmate can be the organisation led by Waller in Suicide Squad, and antagonistic in view to the Justice League (though not villains). ARGUS can be the official liaising organisation with the Justice League, headed by Steve Trevor. CADMUS can be introduced as a company that (funded by Lexcorp initially) develops things like Superboy, or Bizarro etc.

 

[John-An]

You forgot about SHADE.

SHADE has nothing to do with Waller or Suicide Squad if I remember correctly.

 

[KillerWolf]

Technically.... All three.

Checkmate, or Task Force X, is the traditional one. A secret agency divided into information (White) and field (Black) teams. Amanda Waller held the position of White Queen, the highest position available on the information side of things. Max Lord held the position of Black King, the highest position of the field. The Suicide Squad is a subservient organisation.

ARGUS is a sort of modern iteration. They are more friendly to the Justice League (they fund them, as well as the two other Justice Leagues).

CADMUS is just the DCAU version of Task Force X. But traditionally CADMUS is a cloning program, particularly for Guardian of Metropolis.

I say..... Why choose?

Checkmate can be the organisation led by Waller in Suicide Squad, and antagonistic in view to the Justice League (though not villains). ARGUS can be the official liaising organisation with the Justice League, headed by Steve Trevor. CADMUS can be introduced as a company that (funded by Lexcorp initially) develops things like Superboy, or Bizarro etc.

I see.

Thanks a lot for the info!

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I have to say I would prefer Task Force X to function as an adjunct of CHECKMATE, and I for sure would rather the government not fund ANY of the JL.

 

[Wheels]

I'd say there's zero chance CADMUS is used but who knows? CHECKMATE was used in the 80s run, but they could use A.R.G.U.S,since that's more current. Heck, they might use The Agency.

 

[Steve Holt]

i like CHECKMATE the best, it has the most interesting concept for a Intelligence Agency

 

[Loki882]

ARGUS. My idea is that ARGUS was set up in the aftermath of the events of MOS specifically to monitor/investigate reports of alien/metahuman/supernatural/etc around the world. It'd be a recurring presence throughout the films.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I have to say I would prefer Task Force X to function as an adjunct of CHECKMATE, and I for sure would rather the government not fund ANY of the JL.

It's a bit too absurd for the Justice League to be funded by it's members, let's face it, one member. The ISS cost $150 billion, and the ISS ain't a scratch on the Watchtower. Also people would know about a huge artificial satellite being assembled in low Earth orbit.

There are people who complain about construction of the Bat-Cave, the Watchtower is a different league of absurdity.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

It's a bit too absurd for the Justice League to be funded by it's members, let's face it, one member. The ISS cost $150 billion, and the ISS ain't a scratch on the Watchtower. Also people would know about a huge artificial satellite being assembled in low Earth orbit.

There are people who complain about construction of the Bat-Cave, the Watchtower is a different league of absurdity.

We can't be sure what the take in the films is going to be, but just looking at the basic JL mythos... No. It is in no way absurd from an in-story point of view to see that the League could operate totally independent of any and all governments. Bruce Wayne? Billionaire. Ollie Queen? Billionaire. Diana of Paradise Isle? Crown Princess of a people that date back to BEFORE the classical Greek era. Arthur Curry/Orin? King of legendary Atlantis. Those individuals alone bring enormous financial resources (want to guess that the royal coffers of Atlantis and the Amazons DWARFS Ollie and Bruce's personal wealth? Cuz they would). Then there are those that bring other worldly power or alien tech or both to the table like Superman, Flash, GL or J'onn. The real cost of the ISS was just in getting it up there, which would be a cinch for many a Leaguer by themselves much less with a little help from someone with powers too. With Superman, GL, Flash, J'onn and Wonder Woman doing the heavy lifting of construction and assembling, such a task would take far less time and money than if some government entity were to do the same. Pooling the talents and resources of the League seems to me, to be the most obvious answer to the Watchtower's existence, and lo and behold, the satellite's justification has ALWAYS been thus. As for us knowing about the construction of the it... Yeah, we would know. I think that would be the point, and as shown in the CADMUS story on JLU, opens up the canvas on which to tell stories if you go with what the reaction to such a group with an orbiting fortress in space would be here on Earth.

I see this point of view more and more these days, and it baffles me when you take the full range of what these fantastical individuals can do seriously. And that's important to note. The fantasy and the practical "realism" can live side by side in these films and still be both "grounded" and "fantastic".

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

We can't be sure what the take in the films is going to be, but just looking at the basic JL mythos... No. It is in no way absurd from an in-story point of view to see that the League could operate totally independent of any and all governments.

It's fairly absurd. That's why DC did away with it.

Bruce Wayne? Billionaire.

Being a billionaire doesn't mean you can build a satellite, Bill Gates at his richest couldn't have built the ISS. Bruce could potentially afford one if he were the richest man in the world, but people still need to build it.

Ollie Queen? Billionaire.

Also doesn't exist in this universe.

Diana of Paradise Isle? Crown Princess of a people that date back to BEFORE the classical Greek era.

Last time I checked neither the Amazons nor the ancient Greeks were big on space travel.

Arthur Curry/Orin? King of legendary Atlantis.

Last time I checked the Atlanteans also weren't overly concerned with space travel.

Those individuals alone bring enormous financial resources (want to guess that the royal coffers of Atlantis and the Amazons DWARFS Ollie and Bruce's personal wealth? Cuz they would).

Oh yes, because two species who have spent millennia actively distancing themselves from humans, actively despise them and exile their human representatives (both Diana and Orin) are going to spend vast quantities on defending humanity from itself.

Anyway, getting money from the royal families of Themyscira or Atlantis would be [BLACKOUT]funding from a government.[/BLACKOUT]

Then there are those that bring other worldly power or alien tech or both to the table like Superman, Flash, GL or J'onn.

Superman has no alien tech.
Flash's power would extend to being able to do things very fast.
GL doesn't exist yet (at least not one who'd be in the JL)
J'onn doesn't exist.

The real cost of the ISS was just in getting it up there, which would be a cinch for many a Leaguer by themselves much less with a little help from someone with powers too. With Superman, GL, Flash, J'onn and Wonder Woman doing the heavy lifting of construction and assembling, such a task would take far less time and money than if some government entity were to do the same. Pooling the talents and resources of the League seems to me, to be the most obvious answer to the Watchtower's existence, and lo and behold, the satellite's justification has ALWAYS been thus.

Actually, only one third of the cost of the ISS cost was getting it in space. That's still $100 billion for construction. As for assembly, I find it absurd that a farmer, an anachronistic warrior, and a cop could manufacture and produce and assemble a huge, fully functional space station. There's a reason we use specialists to design this stuff, and why it takes them years.

Anyway, how would Batman, Cyborg, and Flash get up there? As far as we know, there's no Green Lantern to get them there.

inb4 teleporter

It's ridiculous to think that Kryptonians can't develop teleportation technology to go from low planetary orbit to planet surface, but humans can.


Also bee-tee-dubs, it's been a while since the Justice League were self funded.

As for us knowing about the construction of the it... Yeah, we would know. I think that would be the point, and as shown in the CADMUS story on JLU, opens up the canvas on which to tell stories if you go with what the reaction to such a group with an orbiting fortress in space would be here on Earth.

That's not the issue. People would know anyway, it'd be visible in the night sky to the naked eye.

I see this point of view more and more these days, and it baffles me when you take the full range of what these fantastical individuals can do seriously. And that's important to note. The fantasy and the practical "realism" can live side by side in these films and still be both "grounded" and "fantastic".

Yeah, they can. But a skyscraper sized satellite (ie the most expensive thing that would have ever been built) is different to other things, like Clark Kent's glasses or who pumps the Batmobile's tyres.

Even if Bruce were made as rich as Bill Gates was at his richest (over $100 billion), don't you think people would notice if he sank every penny of his personal fortune into..... nothing? But still employed hundreds of people on this non-existent project? If $100 billion disappeared from the face of the Earth?

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

It's fairly absurd. That's why DC did away with it.



Being a billionaire doesn't mean you can build a satellite, Bill Gates at his richest couldn't have built the ISS. Bruce could potentially afford one if he were the richest man in the world, but people still need to build it.



Also doesn't exist in this universe.



Last time I checked neither the Amazons nor the ancient Greeks were big on space travel.



Last time I checked the Atlanteans also weren't overly concerned with space travel.



Oh yes, because two species who have spent millennia actively distancing themselves from humans, actively despise them and exile their human representatives (both Diana and Orin) are going to spend vast quantities on defending humanity from itself.

Anyway, getting money from the royal families of Themyscira or Atlantis would be [BLACKOUT]funding from a government.[/BLACKOUT]



Superman has no alien tech.
Flash's power would extend to being able to do things very fast.
GL doesn't exist yet (at least not one who'd be in the JL)
J'onn doesn't exist.



Actually, only one third of the cost of the ISS cost was getting it in space. That's still $100 billion for construction. As for assembly, I find it absurd that a farmer, an anachronistic warrior, and a cop could manufacture and produce and assemble a huge, fully functional space station. There's a reason we use specialists to design this stuff, and why it takes them years.

Anyway, how would Batman, Cyborg, and Flash get up there? As far as we know, there's no Green Lantern to get them there.

inb4 teleporter

It's ridiculous to think that Kryptonians can't develop teleportation technology to go from low planetary orbit to planet surface, but humans can.


Also bee-tee-dubs, it's been a while since the Justice League were self funded.



That's not the issue. People would know anyway, it'd be visible in the night sky to the naked eye.



Yeah, they can. But a skyscraper sized satellite (ie the most expensive thing that would have ever been built) is different to other things, like Clark Kent's glasses or who pumps the Batmobile's tyres.

Even if Bruce were made as rich as Bill Gates was at his richest (over $100 billion), don't you think people would notice if he sank every penny of his personal fortune into..... nothing? But still employed hundreds of people on this non-existent project? If $100 billion disappeared from the face of the Earth?

Sorry brothet-man... That all seems painfully obtuse to the Nth degree simply for the sake of being a contrarian and arguing for argument's sake.

 

[chronos]

I like Checkmate if they are actually going to go into the mythos behind it with a Black and White king/queen council, but I doubt they'll get into to it. If they are just going to make it a generic government agency then Argus is fine. Fits into the current comics any way.

 

[coluanprime]

I would say do Checkmate because it has the coolest backstory. If they didn't want to do that I would say do Argus but just not make it an acronym since that would just emphasize that it is a rip-off of SHIELD. Cadmus is much more of a business and research thing, it shouldn't be reshaped into a agency.

 

[The Guard]

Checkmate, definitely.

DCAU's Cadmus was barely Cadmus.

 

[CommanderConnor]

It's going to be ARGUS