A song of ice and fire = Jon Snow & Dany?

[Ms. Marvel]

Yeah but you know who knows how she is doing after the whole Frey massacre.

I think the whole point of Arya leaving all the women in the hall alive was supposed to hint very strongly that she wasn't killing female Freys. So I'd assume Rosalind and her baby are alive.

 

[TheVileOne]

I think the whole point of Arya leaving all the women in the hall alive was supposed to hint very strongly that she wasn't killing female Freys. So I'd assume Rosalind and her baby are alive.

Ms. Marvel, I know Arya deliberately did not target women and children, but that's not my point. We really know nothing about the character other than that she was married to Edmure Tully the night of the Red Wedding and had his child.

I'm trying to think beyond those events. We don't know how she is doing mentally and how these transpired events are effecting her at all? We really know nothing about her current state. While she may not have been physically harmed, being so close to the trauma of all these extreme events could still have taken some type of toll on her. We just really don't know what or how much.

We still don't know what even happened to Edmure Tully either after he helped the Lannisters take that castle.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Roslin's state of being is largely irrelevant besides the fact that she's alive and that she has a son with Edmure who is quite possibly the heir to both Riverrun and the Twins. The Lannisters have themselves a puppet ruler that they can use in the future.

But whether the Tully/Frey storyline is followed up on could go either way. I don't imagine it's particularly important to the greater narrative and if it was, the showrunners have stated before that it's quite difficult for them to use Edmure given how busy Tobias Menzies is with Outlander.

 

[CB Fan]

Lol! I actually wish that could happen now especially if the dragons were voiced by children.

 

[Loki882]

They have to do the whole "dragons recognize that Jon is connected to Dany right away" thing. It's too cool not to do.

 

[The Big G]

I have to say, when it comes to the Jonerys parts of episode 5....Emilia's facial expression/nonverbal acting was great

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Dany tends to inspire devotion and love from her followers, particularly in the inner circle. I think Tyrion cares about her, but I haven't seen anything to suggest it's more than that.

Not yet. But we shall see, who knows.

There's a marked difference between a "plot hole" and a "loose end". At this point Ed more qualifies as the latter and a minor one at that because he is not integral to the unfoldment of the endgame. He's been a bit-player at best, and so even if he's left out of the rest of the story it will still resolve without his absence posing any kind of serious issue.

And as I noted, his captors are dead, so he doesn't need to be "rescued" per se before he makes his next appearance, if he does. There's no one left to object to opening the door so that he can reunite with his wife and son -in fact his wife would likely do it. Mundane steps like this can occur between the lines and be logically assumed, and these should not be categorized as plot holes.

You're right that there's a difference between plot holes and loose ends in storytelling, but at the same time, they're not always mutually exclusive. If Arya didn't go to the Twins to murder Walder; if for some reason Walder was somewhere away from the Twins and Arya killed him there, then I'd say Edmure was a loose end. But Arya killed him at the Twins, and her uncle continues to rot there. With his captors being dead and him having no access to the keys that doesn't help him at all. That just means he might start to starve coz no one is coming to give him food. So, to me, this is a plot hole. Just like it's a plot hole that Arya didn't know about the battle of the bastards.

And that was the highest yet with a $10M average per episode. Reportedly the budget is about the same, but with fewer episodes the price for each is about $14M.

The other concern is the time budget. It takes several years (and substantially more money per minute) to finish an FX-laden fantasy drama like the Hobbit or LoTR films that's only about 3 hours long. Contrast that to an 8 hour GoT season with only a year to work on it, yet still trying to match movie quality FX standards! That's one reason this season is airing a little later than usual and they are saying season 8 may take a little longer as well. But the Dragons and battles are soaking it all up.

We don't know if the budget for each episode was spent equally and if you add up the hours and minutes for this season it is still shorter than the last season.

There are only 2 seasons to go (this and next) so as the ending chapters to the second most popular television show of the 21st century, I sincerely doubt it would've hurt HBO to have upgraded the budget from $100 to $150 million.

I've been annoyed by some of the nudity on this show because yes, it can get unnecessary and gratuitous at times.

But in the case of Missendai and Grey Worm, I was fine with it. Whether it needed to be there for plot relevancy or not, it was a sweet scene between the two I thought.

Of course if they're willing to be that "steamy" with those two, then it'll be interesting to see how far they go with Jon/Dany in that regard.

Yo, I do not mind that they showed GW & Missandei getting intimate, I just do not like the fact that they had to show the actresses's whole body on the camera. That's gratuitous to me because it does not serve any purpose other than to be degrading eye candy for the viewer.

I wish I hadn't seen this until after the episode. Please don't post spoilers till after they air =]

 

[Loki882]

Dani so totally wants Jon now, it's obvious. It's written all over her face.

 

[Nathaniell]

Thought he was going to bend the knee in that scene lol

 

[Schlosser85]

Ygritte got him to bend the knee pretty readily.

 

[antsman41]

Ygritte got him to bend the knee pretty readily.

Boom.

 

[Legendver2]

That quote is a major spoiler Surprised this is still up

 

[The Big G]

That quote is a major spoiler Surprised this is still up

To be fare...its #CANON that Dany likes ships

Darrio got her some ships because he heard she liked them

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

That quote is a major spoiler Surprised this is still up

The boat thing is because Dany wanted ships to go to Westeros for about 5 seasons.

 

[Legendver2]

The boat thing is because Dany wanted ships to go to Westeros for about 5 seasons.

You sure bout that?

 

[KevTravels]

Yrgitte's ghost is going to be so pissed.

 

[Fist of Khonshu]

You're right that there's a difference between plot holes and loose ends in storytelling, but at the same time, they're not always mutually exclusive. If Arya didn't go to the Twins to murder Walder; if for some reason Walder was somewhere away from the Twins and Arya killed him there, then I'd say Edmure was a loose end. But Arya killed him at the Twins, and her uncle continues to rot there. With his captors being dead and him having no access to the keys that doesn't help him at all. That just means he might start to starve coz no one is coming to give him food. So, to me, this is a plot hole. Just like it's a plot hole that Arya didn't know about the battle of the bastards.

We're probably just going to remain disagreed on the definition of a plothole.

Logical assumptions fill in a lot of blanks. I don't think Edmure is still rotting in his cell. The Frey women (demeaned by old Walder and now liberated) likely freed him. His wife Roslin in particular would have every reason to do so as that gives their son the best chance to prosper and survive as the heir to the Riverlands, and it elevates her status as the Lady of Riverrun once Edmure resumes his lordship. Nobody really cares about these minor characters though and depicting all these steps doesn't move the main plotline forward which is why it wasn't shown.

God I can't believe I'm defending D&D's choices, arrgh stop!

We don't know if the budget for each episode was spent equally and if you add up the hours and minutes for this season it is still shorter than the last season.

There are only 2 seasons to go (this and next) so as the ending chapters to the second most popular television show of the 21st century, I sincerely doubt it would've hurt HBO to have upgraded the budget from $100 to $150 million.

I don't know enough about the inner workings and constraints of their budget to say much more on this, other than computer models with a million hair follicles cost more to animate.

It's too bad Ghost has been absent from view lately and I hope we see more of him soon.

I voted yay in your poll btw. No point resisting, like it or not, it's happening!

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[Iceman]

It could work. I don't really have any idea how this is going to end. Surely there will be some GoT style twist.

 

[Iceman]

TheVileOne keeps saying that's what's stopping Dany from considering him.

Being a bastard would have been a factor earlier but when you get to a certain level statuses like that can just be wiped clean/legitimised.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

You guys really shouldn't be talking about leaked spoilers in this thread.
At least spoiler tag them and indicate that it's an actual spoiler.

Yrgitte's ghost is going to be so pissed.

Ygritte and Drogo ar probably making love in the afterlife. They're better for each other just like Jon & Dany are better for each other.

We're probably just going to remain disagreed on the definition of a plothole.

Yeah probably lol

Logical assumptions fill in a lot of blanks. I don't think Edmure is still rotting in his cell. The Frey women (demeaned by old Walder and now liberated) likely freed him. His wife Roslin in particular would have every reason to do so as that gives their son the best chance to prosper and survive as the heir to the Riverlands, and it elevates her status as the Lady of Riverrun once Edmure resumes his lordship. Nobody really cares about these minor characters though and depicting all these steps doesn't move the main plotline forward which is why it wasn't shown.

Logically? Yes, this all makes sense but again: this is us, the fans, making up excuses and thinking of logic for ourselves because the narrative is completely ignoring it...

God I can't believe I'm defending D&D's choices, arrgh stop!

Yeah man!!!!

I don't know enough about the inner workings and constraints of their budget to say much more on this, other than computer models with a million hair follicles cost more to animate.

Word, I am sure it's very expensive and I am also sure that HBO makes lots and lots and PLENTY to cover the costs and then some, anyway. These are the final 2 seasons and they're shorter, so why not make them go out with a bang?

It's too bad Ghost has been absent from view lately and I hope we see more of him soon.

Sansa namedropped Ghost this episode. "Did Jon expect all the Northern lords to sit around and wait for him like Ghost?"

I voted yay in your poll btw. No point resisting, like it or not, it's happening!

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It could work. I don't really have any idea how this is going to end. Surely there will be some GoT style twist.

What are you talking about?

Being a bastard would have been a factor earlier but when you get to a certain level statuses like that can just be wiped clean/legitimised.

Exactly. Jon is a king. Making him one of the most powerful people in a 100 mile radius.

 

[godisawesome]

If I can comment on the "Jon Snow is still officially a nominal bastard" thing, I do love the implications that Jon refuses to supplant the Stark kids, and how that kind of honors Ned, Robb, and even Catelyn, to an extent.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

If I can comment on the "Jon Snow is still officially a nominal bastard" thing, I do love the implications that Jon refuses to supplant the Stark kids, and how that kind of honors Ned, Robb, and even Catelyn, to an extent.

how does he honor Cat?

 

[godisawesome]

Well, proves Cat wrong by honoring the "legitimate" Stark family and therefore her line of Stark kids.

 

[The Big G]

im not one to indulge in the "feels"....but yeah....this might have caused my heart to grow a couple of sizes....

[YT]ZrNjy97M5vI[/YT]

 

[Iceman]

What are you talking about?

Just that GoT isn't a typical epic fantasy story and we could well get something other than the happy ending or satisfying victory (with important characters getting on in the way we might want) that usually happens in them.

Exactly. Jon is a king. Making him one of the most powerful people in a 100 mile radius.

Yep.