Andrew Jackson vs. Hitler.

[Optimus_Prime_]

That's gossip, not proven fact.

I'm still going to believe it for personal amusement purposes.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Yeah, stop slandering Hitler!

(well, actually it would libeling, since it's typed)

 

[Schlosser85]

I honestly don't think so. The National Socialist movement probably would have found somebody else. It might have even been worse. They might have found somebody competent.

This is also the reason why I think Sherman was correct in his treatment of the South in the Civil War. He understood that it wasn't enough to demolish their capacity to wage war, it was the will to fight that had to be beaten out of the South. This didn't happen with Germany in World War I, and we saw the results two decades later.

I disagree.

Had we treated Germany more halfway decently after WWI instead of unfairly assigning them 100% of the responsibility for the war (in which they were really no more or less guilty than everyone else), their economy might not have gone to **** as badly, they might not have had as much festering national anger and resentment, and Hitler and the Nazis might have become as popularly embraced.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I could still see the Nazis likely coming to power. The extreme anti-semtisim, racism and nationalism were already there. What ensured the rise to power for people like Hitler, Mussolini and Franco was the Great Depression.

And you know, that Europeans still had a 19th century mindset (imperialism), only with 20th century weapons.

Unfortunately most people living in the first half of the 20th century would be classified as... incredibly bigoted by our 21st standards.

 

[Schlosser85]

Probably all valid points.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Probably all valid points.

Probably?

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I disagree.

Had we treated Germany more halfway decently after WWI instead of unfairly assigning them 100% of the responsibility for the war (in which they were really no more or less guilty than everyone else), their economy might not have gone to **** as badly, they might not have had as much festering national anger and resentment, and Hitler and the Nazis might have become as popularly embraced.

The whole western world's economy collapsed in that timeframe. Germany would not have been spared regardless of what happened at the Paris Peace Conference.

Despite the suffering in Germany in the later days of the war, the war was fought entirely outside of Germany and thus the people didn't feel like they were beaten. Therefore they started looking at scapegoats and those 'traitorous' Jews and commies became the main targets. They never understood the extent to which they were beaten and that the German takeover of Europe was the wrong course of action. They wouldn't learn that lesson until their country was obliterated in World War II. World War I is one of the few wars that took a bigger toll on the mentality of the winners than the losers. Since it was fought mostly on Allied soil, they understood the devastation and that's why they were so reluctant to do anything about Hitler until they had no other choice.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Well, things would probably have been better, if Germany didn't have to pay such incredible reparations.

But, I'm not convinced that that would be enough to stop the rise of the Nazis. After all, other countries who were much better off, saw the rise of sizable fascist movements.

Economic hardships always brings the worst out of people. Just look at Greece right now. Neo-Nazis got seats in parliament. And I'm not calling them Neo-Nazis, they identify themselves as Neo-Nazis.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

And the rise of communist movements. The Depression caused extremism on both sides.

The reparations didn't help matters and certainly gave the Germans a target to blame, but there would have been economic problems regardless simply because of the Great Depression. There was more that led to the rise of the Nazis than just the Versailles treaty.

 

[Thundercrack85]

To a lesser extent, yes.

 

[Schlosser85]

It boggles my mind how there are Greek and Russian "Nazis".

 

[Thundercrack85]

Well, Russia is kind of interesting.

A lot of White Russians allied themselves with Germany in World War II. Most people are probably familiar with the Cossacks fighting for Germany. They wanted to retake Russia from the Reds. Even though the Germans planned to wipe out all Slavs (must have been awkward during meal times).

As for modern Russian Nazis... I have no idea.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

It boggles my mind how there are Greek and Russian "Nazis".

Sadly the further we get from World War II, more and more people will start to forget how terrible it was.

The same thing is happening in the US where people are starting to forget the lessons of the Civil War.

This is why history education is important.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I don't think anyone learned anything from the Civil War. Southerners treated black people like slaves well into the 20th century, and they didn't get equal rights until... the 1980's (still a work in progress in some parts of Mississippi).

You can't unlearn a lesson you never learned.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

The real lesson was that the power lies in Washington and not with the individual states, and they couldn't just choose to ignore what they didn't like and secede when they didn't get their way.

We are a long way from another Civil War, but you can start to see the seeds being planted with issues like nullification popping up again.

 

[chamber-music]

Britain had Oswald Mosley and British Union of Fascists (Blackshirts) in the 1930s.

The famous Battle of Cable Street in the East End Of London in 1936. The Blackshirts tried to marched down a Jewish neighbourhood and were turned back.

It boggles my mind how there are Greek and Russian "Nazis".

There are Nazis in America, Canada, Britain, ect.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Britain had Oswald Mosley and British Union of Fascists (Blackshirts) in the 1930s.

The famous Battle of Cable Street in the East End Of London in 1936. The Blackshirts tried to marched down a Jewish neighbourhood and were turned back.


There are Nazis in America, Canada, Britain, ect.

Yeah but the Nazis considered Slavs (the ethnic group most Russians fall under) to be subhuman, and planned to exterminate them.

Americans, Canadians, and Brits are predominately Anglo-Saxon, or other groups the Nazis didn't have a racial beef with.

 

[chamber-music]

White Supremacy and logic tend not to go together

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

I got to be honest, going into a thread about Hitler versus Andrew Jackson, and the most surprising and mind-boggling thing still remains that someone managed to defend creationists.