Battle for Bludhaven discussion thread

[The Question]

You're separating your story from reality.

Yeah, probably. But then, most do to some degree.

Uncle Sam is an American pro-military symbol. If you show absolutely anyone a picture of Uncle Sam, they will say, "Oh, that's Uncle Sam, the guy in all those US recruitment posters." You're trying to subvert that in the story, which is fine, but I guarantee you that you'll never be able to separate the two concepts from each other in people's minds, and it's more than likely the existing Uncle Sam perception will win out in the end since it's been around a lot longer. I just don't see it working, personally. If I saw the comic and it marketed him as the embodiment of the American spirit, that's fine. But the human spirit? I'd think the implication that Americans somehow got the human spirit "right" to the point where the actual embodiment of it likes to wear their colors and look like one of their symbols is pretty silly and more than a little ethnocentric.

It might look that way. Hell, I've considered that it'd look that way. But, in my mind at least, I've got it all worked out. Think of it this way:




What is America? Well, as of right now, it's the richest country in the world. It's also one of the largest, and the second or third most populated. It's got 50 states and 2 populated areas in it's ownership. It controls most of the North American contonent, with the exception of Mexico and Canada. It's government is a democratic republic, where the people are represented by a president, a congress, and a set of judges, all with the peower to balance one another out. It is, to put it simplisticly, a thing. A very large, very complex thing, but a thing none the less. You can touch America. You can run your fingers through the sands of the Orange County shoreline and run through the wehat feilds of Kansas. America is something that has substance. It is not an ideal. Nor does America even represent an ideal. It can't. Really, it's a large area of land with a **** load of cities. That can't represent an ideal. The people who live there, on the other hand, can. People create ideas. They can even (for better or for worse, depending on how you veiw it), create beliefes. Something a good deal more powerful than ideas, for both good or ill.

Rome did not make itself great. It's people did. Rome did not make itself fall. It's people (and those people who invaded it) did. Russia did not make itself into a country strewn with corruption and organized crime. It's people did. People, my friend, are what make a country. People are the spirit behind a country. The American spirit is the same as the Russian spirit and the Roman spirit and the Chinese spirit. It's the human spirit. Just wrapped up in a good ol' American package.

Countries are not eternal. At least, the way they are is not constant. There will come a time where there is no nation called the United States of America. This is a fact. America may be invaded. It may colapse under economic trouble. Or, it may do what most civilizations do. It will grow. It will evolve. It will meld with other coultures to make a whole new one. One hundred years ago. There was no Germany. There was Prussia, and a few dozen tiny nations that spoke the same language. Then, the Keiser came along, and brought all of these nations that shared a common culture, and created Germany. Does that mean the Prussian spirit died and the German spirit was born? Hell no. It just got a new name and a bigger living space. When America is no longer America, will the American spirit die? No. It can't. It will change. It will get a new name and a new look, but at it's core it will still be the same. Because it's just the human spirit. Uncle Sam is no different from Lady Britania or that Bear with the hat that the U.S.S.R. had. It's a symbol for the triumph of the human spirit. Just made to apease the particular humans that it's being shown to. So, while on the surface, Uncle Sam may be "that guy on the recruitment posters," what he represents is an idea. An idea that's existed long before America and will live on long after.

And that's how I'd write it. Many people may perceive it as ethnocentric, as I would expect them to. But, it wouldn't be. And with a little luck, I'd change their minds.



EDIT: If this sounds like absolute bull****, take note. I'm just a little bit ****ed up in the head.

 

[Harlekin]

Naw, Uncle Sam doesn't really work as the Spectre's opposite, thanks to his current story roots, which you'd have to completely change to fit with your story. I don't know who read the American Talisman story from the Ostrander Spectre run, but Uncle Sam really is the iconic embodiment of the American ideal. Or at least, was.

 

[The Question]

What are his current story roots. I'm not familiar with them.

 

[Harlekin]

What are his current story roots. I'm not familiar with them.

Back when all those guys signed the declaration of independance, an American Talisman was forged out via alchemy. There are two types of reality, the real one, and the iconic reality (which segues into the Dreaming btw). The American Talisman would be America's link into the iconic reality. An iconic America, the Spirit of America.

Of course, the talisman eventually started to shatter and spread itself, and over time, different people tapped into the shattered pieces to gain awesome power. This way the Spirit took on a human form, serving as a symbol for America. That eventually grew to become Uncle Sam. Although a new and better American Talisman would later be created, and with it a new hero, Patriot, either Uncle Sam simply survived that or Patriot eventually changed into Uncle Sam. Either way, Uncle Sam is basically the Spirit of America in human form.

 

[The Question]

Okay. Cool. So, that throws my idea completely out the window. Still, would make for a cool out of continuity tale.