The Amazing Spider-Man 2 Better 3 Villains: TASM2 Or SM3?

[Andrew Lucas]

Well if you think about it, Sandman could be considered to have weakened spider-man considerably. There's a degree of interpretation there, bit harsh on the poor guy to insinuate he's not watching the film, slightly incendary is it not?

There's even a doubt about it? I always thought he did lol.

 

[The Joker]

Post some screencaps or footage that show a considerably weakened Spider-Man post Sandman attack please. If there's no doubt then providing proof should be easy as pie. So come on lets see it.

 

[Andrew Lucas]

Post some screencaps or footage that show a considerably weakened Spider-Man post Sandman attack please. If there's no doubt then providing proof should be easy as pie. So come on lets see it.

If I had Spider-Man 3 in my phone, I would lol.

 

[The Joker]

If I had Spider-Man 3 in my phone, I would lol.

No rush. Wait til you get to a laptop or computer. I'll be waiting. Or go find some Youtube vids. The final battle scene is on there.

 

[Spider-Fan]

1) Peter already was almost killed by the Sandman by that time. So, obviously, he was weaker than usual.
2) Peter along with Harry were fighting the Sandman when Sandman punched Spidey into the construction site where Venom attack him. So, he basically was dealing with another enemy at this time.

Venom was stalking him alone. At this time, he was alone. I literally watched the movie yesterday, man. Also, Peter had no signs that he was incredibly weak, and even if he was, it doesn't change the fact that Venom in a solo fight nearly killed him.

 

[Lantern Venom]

TAS Eddie Brock wasn't fleshed out before he was Venom. What did we know about him before that?

But I also remember TAS Eddie being stupid. He was walking along giving out about Spider-Man and then he sneezes just once and says Spider-Man cost him his health lol.

You mentioned this clip, and it did more in one minute than Raimi's Blowphervenom did in the entire movie. Note all that you see here: flashbacks that encompass years of displaced anger, articles on the wall that denote escalating obsession (something Webb's Electro also had), Eddie talking to himself as he readies his body to confront Spidey, and a shared hatred from the symbiote that ends with Venom referring to himself as "we".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1R5IgSFmIw

This is how a multi-layered villain is written--with a complicated back story. Raimi's VINO was just an afterthought with his hand caught in the cookie jar.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

"complicated back story" lol

 

[Lantern Venom]

"complicated back story" lol

Well, it didn't quite have the depth of the comics, where it could be argued that Eddie started to become Venom when his mother died. However, it was still superior to the juvenile "I cheated and got caught" schlock.

 

[GoodYoung]

No offense but you must be joking. Vengeance against a hero/Cop/moral person stopping an amoral person for doing something bad is the age old motive for revenge.

Which doesn't mean it's a good motivation.
I guess Killian's motives in IM3 were pretty good too.

Are all the Spider-Man villains (not to mention the bazillions of other fictional villain characters seeking revenge for the evil plans being foiled) morons for wanting revenge on Spider-Man just because he did the right thing by stopping their criminal plans and putting them in prison?

Better cancel using the Sinister Six because their whole foundation was getting revenge on Spider-Man for doing the right thing and stopping six deadly super villains. No different to Peter doing the right thing and exposing Brock's fraud, and humiliating him, and costing him his career in journalism. A bad guy seeking vengeance for someone screwing them over is the classic motive for personal vendettas.

Hating a person for stopping you doing the crimes, robberies and killing people and hating a person for making you losing your job are two different things.

In the comics there was no connection in any way to Peter and Eddie. Spider-Man was not an obstacle at all to Eddie writing a proper story. He didn't sabotage Eddie's career. He didn't know Eddie from Adam. All he did was catch a serial killer. There's nothing personal there between Peter and Eddie. Compare that to the movie and you can see plain as day that the movie version is unquestionably superior in every way.

In both versions Brock's motivation was "I lost my job so now I'm going to kill you". With exception of in one version, he knew Peter personally, in the other - he did not. And I'm seriously doubting something as lame as that can be considered a good motivation. So, maybe it is a little bit better than in the comics but still pretty weak.

Peter was still fighting fit after Sandman was taken down, showing no physical signs that he was debilitated in any way from his fight with Sandman.

Oh yeah. I forgot it's Tobey Spider-Man.

Harry had to sacrifice himself to save Peter from Venom.

Which honestly was a dumb move. It doesn't make Venom a bigger threat. Harry could've just throw a bomb at him or activate his glider.

Brilliant fight scene. Spider-Man 3, for all it's faults, had terrific action sequences.

With Sandman... Maybe. With Venom - no. It was bad. Really bad. It was really short and the fight itself was only about...less than 1 minute? The rest of the Spidey/Venom scenes were them talking with their masks off.

Venom was stalking him alone. At this time, he was alone. I literally watched the movie yesterday, man.

Venom attacted Peter when Spidey was thrown into the construction site while he was fighting Sandman. He was fighting an another enemy at this time. Peter's mind was focused on the Sandman.

it doesn't change the fact that Venom in a solo fight nearly killed him.

Venom wasn't close to kill Spider-Man in a fight. He webbed a beaten Spider-Man up and could've impale him with Harry's glider but that's not a hand-to-hand fight.

 

[The Joker]

Which doesn't mean it's a good motivation.
I guess Killian's motives in IM3 were pretty good too.

No, because Tony didn't actually do anything that hurt him. He just didn't show up for a meeting on a rooftop on New Year's Eve they had arranged 2 minutes before on the spur of the moment in an elevator full of glamor models at a drunken New Year's Eve party. In what way did that hurt Killian's life in any way? It didn't. He just stood him up for meeting 2 minutes after meeting him. That ticked Killian off.

If that had damaged Killian's life in any way as a result then it would have been a good motivation. Like in Spider-Man 3 with Peter and Eddie.

Hating a person for stopping you doing the crimes, robberies and killing people and hating a person for making you losing your job are two different things.

The actual amoral acts are different but the principal is the exact same. Someone did the moral thing against their amoral acts, and they suffered for it. The actual details of what they did is irrelevant. It's the exact same principal.

Eddie committed a fraud, Peter did the right thing and exposed it and ruined him. Villains commit crimes, Spider-Man does the right thing and stops them, they go to prison. Bad guys want revenge because their nasty acts were stopped by a good guy.

In both versions Brock's motivation was "I lost my job so now I'm going to kill you". With exception of in one version, he knew Peter personally, in the other - he did not. And I'm seriously doubting something as lame as that can be considered a good motivation. So, maybe it is a little bit better than in the comics but still pretty weak.

In the movie version it was Peter who did something to INTENTIONALLY hurt Brock. He exposed his fraud, roughed him up, and got him fired and ruined his career in journalism. He did not just lose him a job, he cost him his career ("I'm begging you if you do this I will lose everything. There's not a paper that will hire me"). In the comic book version Spider-Man did not hurt Eddie. He didn't even know him. Spider-Man did not sabotage his news story. He was not an obstacle to Eddie's career in any way. He just caught a serial killer.

Which honestly was a dumb move. It doesn't make Venom a bigger threat. Harry could've just throw a bomb at him or activate his glider.

Harry was knocked off his glider and unconscious on the floor. The bombs came out of the glider. Venom had the glider and was about to stab Peter with it. Harry only came around seconds before Peter was going to be stabbed.

How exactly was Harry supposed to bomb him here?

With Sandman... Maybe. With Venom - no. It was bad. Really bad. It was really short and the fight itself was only about...less than 1 minute? The rest of the Spidey/Venom scenes were them talking with their masks off.

I'm going to say what Spider-Fan told you; go back and watch the movie. The fight scene lasted several minutes. And a brilliant several minutes it was, too. Quality over quantity every time.

Venom attacted Peter when Spidey was thrown into the construction site while he was fighting Sandman. He was fighting an another enemy at this time. Peter's mind was focused on the Sandman.

Seriously go back and watch the movie. Harry took Sandman down. That left Spidey and Venom alone. He was not focused on Sandman at all. Venom was in close to kill Spider-Man for the bulk of the whole finale, from the moment he entered the scene and attacked him on the suspended Taxi. Spider-Man was 'beaten' by Venom himself when he webbed him up. And by beaten I mean temporarily debilitated by Venom flinging him into the metal girders of the construction site.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

TAS fleshed out Eddie Brock in one brief montage more fully than a $250 mil movie did. How does that happen?



Spawn, Creeper, Hellboy, Etrigan, Ghost Rider, Man-Thing, Deadman, Spectre, Deathlok....need I go on?

None of those heroes started out as villains. Venom did. Spectre and Deadman are ghosts basically and don't look as scary as Venom. Hellboy is a pancake eating, cat loving, baby saving, Howdy Doody fanboy. Hellboy doesn't look as scary as Venom. Also unlike Venon, Hellboy actually has substance. Venom is a razor sharp tooth, people eating (in Ultimate), black alien goo giant. Venom Chris Browned Black Cat. When you start off a villain like Venom and try to make him an anti-hero, its ****ing stupid.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

You mentioned this clip, and it did more in one minute than Raimi's Blowphervenom did in the entire movie. Note all that you see here: flashbacks that encompass years of displaced anger, articles on the wall that denote escalating obsession (something Webb's Electro also had), Eddie talking to himself as he readies his body to confront Spidey, and a shared hatred from the symbiote that ends with Venom referring to himself as "we".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1R5IgSFmIw

This is how a multi-layered villain is written--with a complicated back story. Raimi's VINO was just an afterthought with his hand caught in the cookie jar.

That is not years of displaced anger. That is flashback of clips from the previous three episodes he was in where Spider-Man spoiled his news stories. Two of them were from the same episode, The Lizard story that Spider-Man stopped him from exposing.

It does not flesh out or show anything about Eddie Brock. It just shows things we already knew from those episodes that he's annoyed at Spider-Man for usurping his news scoops, and that he blames him for stupid things like catching a cold lol.

It's a weak version of Venom. All of them are except Spider-Man 3.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

I prefer Eddie when he's the opposite of Peter that's what I liked about Raimi's. Eddie was similar to Peter but the opposite of him. Peter is nice, Eddie is a jerk. Peter is selfless, Eddie is selfish. Someone who's similar in age to Peter.

It's a more interesting dynamic considering Spidey doesn't really have a villain like that. Problem with Venom is Eddie isn't interesting.

Eddie being the opposite of Peter is like how Thomas Elliott is the opposite of Bruce Wayne which is why I love Hush but the thing with Hush he's smart. He's as ready as Bruce is. He's also a surgeon. He did surgery on face to make himself look like Bruce Wayne and after Batman "died", he took on Bruce's role so no one knew Bruce was Batman. Eddie doesn't have anything interesting to him when he doesn't have the symbiote. The symbiote is more interesting then Eddie has ever been. After Venom's debut, the only time Eddie matter was in Mark Miller's Spidey where Eddie got cancer and sold the symbiote.

 

[Leenie]

If there's one thing I can't complain about with Spider-Man 3, it's the action sequences.

I found all of the action sequences to be pretty fantastic, especially the Black Spidey vs. Sandman subway fight. Raimi really knew how to make things look really cool with Sandman ... And hey, the movie was from 2007, and the Sandman special effects still hold up, in my opinion.

I also REALLY loved Peter and Harry's second fight in the mansion. I remember very clearly when Peter brutally punched Harry up against a brick wall near the end of the fight, the movie theater audience loudly shouted "OH!"

 

[Oscorp]

If there's one thing I can't complain about with Spider-Man 3, it's the action sequences.

I found all of the action sequences to be pretty fantastic, especially the Black Spidey vs. Sandman subway fight. Raimi really knew how to make things look really cool with Sandman ... And hey, the movie was from 2007, and the Sandman special effects still hold up, in my opinion.

I also REALLY loved Peter and Harry's second fight in the mansion. I remember very clearly when Peter brutally punched Harry up against a brick wall near the end of the fight, the movie theater audience loudly shouted "OH!"

I agree that the action is great but I completely disagree about Sandman. He mostly made Sandman turn into a giant monster, when so much other exciting things could be done with him instead.

 

[GoodYoung]

Harry was knocked off his glider and unconscious on the floor. The bombs came out of the glider. Venom had the glider and was about to stab Peter with it. Harry only came around seconds before Peter was going to be stabbed.

Ok, but Harry could control his glider and could've command it to get to it's owner.

I'm going to say what Spider-Fan told you; go back and watch the movie. The fight scene lasted several minutes. And a brilliant several minutes it was, too.

I watched the movie few weeks ago.
The whole last fight was pretty long but that includes Sandman, New Goblin and Venom. The Venom versus Spidey fight was really REALLY short.

Seriously go back and watch the movie. Harry took Sandman down. That left Spidey and Venom alone. He was not focused on Sandman at all.

Peter and Harry were fighting Sandman. Sandman punched Spidey into the construction site and Venom immediately attacted him and webbed him up and then they started talking again. Then Harry took Sandman down and saved Peter from Venom.

from the moment he entered the scene and attacked him on the suspended Taxi. Spider-Man was 'beaten' by Venom himself when he webbed him up. And by beaten I mean temporarily debilitated by Venom flinging him into the metal girders of the construction site.

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=almPLyhYxvc[/YT]
Is that what you are talking about? That's how Spider-Man was debilitated by Venom? Being punched three times with a metal bar?

 

[The Joker]

I prefer Eddie when he's the opposite of Peter that's what I liked about Raimi's. Eddie was similar to Peter but the opposite of him. Peter is nice, Eddie is a jerk. Peter is selfless, Eddie is selfish. Someone who's similar in age to Peter.

It's a more interesting dynamic considering Spidey doesn't really have a villain like that. Problem with Venom is Eddie isn't interesting.

Eddie being the opposite of Peter is like how Thomas Elliott is the opposite of Bruce Wayne which is why I love Hush but the thing with Hush he's smart. He's as ready as Bruce is. He's also a surgeon. He did surgery on face to make himself look like Bruce Wayne and after Batman "died", he took on Bruce's role so no one knew Bruce was Batman. Eddie doesn't have anything interesting to him when he doesn't have the symbiote. The symbiote is more interesting then Eddie has ever been.

Well said.

Though Hush and Venom have one thing in common; stupid motives for hating the hero.

After Venom's debut, the only time Eddie matter was in Mark Miller's Spidey where Eddie got cancer and sold the symbiote.

Yeah and The Scorpion ended up with it

Ok, but Harry could control his glider and could've command it to get to it's owner.

In the space of seconds when someone is about to stab someone else, and you've just come back to consciousness, you don't think about looking for your remote control, your instinct is to jump in to save the person.

I watched the movie few weeks ago.
The whole last fight was pretty long but that includes Sandman, New Goblin and Venom. The Venom versus Spidey fight was really REALLY short.

The whole last fight begins and lasts for several minutes with just Venom and Spidey. Sandman doesn't come into it until Venom knocks Spider-Man down onto the ground of the construction site. Then it reconvenes again as just Venom vs Spidey after Sandman is taken out by Harry.

That's two rounds of Spider-Man vs Venom, and it's always quality over quantity.

Peter and Harry were fighting Sandman. Sandman punched Spidey into the construction site and Venom immediately attacted him and webbed him up and then they started talking again. Then Harry took Sandman down and saved Peter from Venom.

That is not what happened at all. Go back and watch the movie. Here is exactly what happened in sequence; Harry bombed Sandman, he collapsed. That left Spidey and Venom. Venom attacked Spidey, grabbed him by the head and thrashed him into the construction girders, then webbed him, then attacked him with a spiked metal bar. Then Harry swooped in, Venom knocked him off his glider and sent him flying into those metal pipes which all collapsed and made that loud sound which hurt the symbiote, which reminded Peter of the bell tower and that sound hurts the symbiote.

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=almPLyhYxvc[/YT]
Is that what you are talking about? That's how Spider-Man was debilitated by Venom? Being punched three times with a metal bar?

No, I'm talking about before that when he grabbed Spidey by the head and flung him into the metal construction girders knocking him to the ground, and then he webbed him up and attacked him with that metal bar.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

Well said.

Though Hush and Venom have one thing in common; stupid motives for hating the hero.

I well say, I agree on Hush if you've only read Hush. If you haven't read Heart of Hush, then I completely disagree. I say this because Heart of Hush is a great sequel to Hush that adds to Hush's backstory and makes you love him.

You get to explore Hush's relationship with his mother. One of the reason he hates Bruce Wayne is because of his mother. His mother always compared him to Bruce. His mother always praised Bruce while putting Tommy down. Tommy even skipped college to stay home and take care of his mother (yea I know he tried killing her but still). When Tommy meets a girl who's the daughter to a crime lord in Gotham (it's just a coincidence and has nothing to do with Tommy seeing her) , Tommy's mother cuts him out of the will. Because of that Tommy kills his mother and goes to become a surgeon. I love how Thomas's relationship with his parents is just the opposite of Bruce and how he and Bruce were best friends. Strongly suggest you read Heart of Hush.

Best part of Heart of Hush is Hush's plan against Bruce. He together with Mr Freeze (Freeze never talked just a cameo) found out a way to remove the human heart out of a person while keeping the person alive. Hush also performed plastic surgery on his face to look like Bruce Wayne. He together with Scarecrow sets a trap for Batman in which basically Bats fights Crane and Hush finds Selina, attacks her, and removes her heart hurting Bruce in the worse way possible.

It's a great sequel. Smaller then Hush but just as powerful. Paul Dini really improved on Hush in that, Hush Money, and House of Hush. Hush is definitely a better character then Eddie Brock's Venom.

Well Pre-New 52 Hush. New 52 Hush.....

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

No, because Tony didn't actually do anything that hurt him. He just didn't show up for a meeting on a rooftop on New Year's Eve they had arranged 2 minutes before on the spur of the moment in an elevator full of glamor models at a drunken New Year's Eve party. In what way did that hurt Killian's life in any way? It didn't. He just stood him up for meeting 2 minutes after meeting him. That ticked Killian off.

Actually it didn't. Killian didn't have any lingering feelings over that. There wasn't a personal grudge between Killian and Stark. Killian's goal was to put a puppet President in the White House, who would then give big military contracts to AIM. He only gets angry with Stark because Stark keeps messing up his plans.

 

[The Joker]

Actually it didn't. Killian didn't have any lingering feelings over that. There wasn't a personal grudge between Killian and Stark. Killian's goal was to put a puppet President in the White House, who would then give big military contracts to AIM. He only gets angry with Stark because Stark keeps messing up his plans.

Well there you go

I well say, I agree on Hush if you've only read Hush. If you haven't read Heart of Hush, then I completely disagree. I say this because Heart of Hush is a great sequel to Hush that adds to Hush's backstory and makes you love him.

You get to explore Hush's relationship with his mother. One of the reason he hates Bruce Wayne is because of his mother. His mother always compared him to Bruce. His mother always praised Bruce while putting Tommy down. Tommy even skipped college to stay home and take care of his mother (yea I know he tried killing her but still). When Tommy meets a girl who's the daughter to a crime lord in Gotham (it's just a coincidence and has nothing to do with Tommy seeing her) , Tommy's mother cuts him out of the will. Because of that Tommy kills his mother and goes to become a surgeon. I love how Thomas's relationship with his parents is just the opposite of Bruce and how he and Bruce were best friends. Strongly suggest you read Heart of Hush.

Best part of Heart of Hush is Hush's plan against Bruce. He together with Mr Freeze (Freeze never talked just a cameo) found out a way to remove the human heart out of a person while keeping the person alive. Hush also performed plastic surgery on his face to look like Bruce Wayne. He together with Scarecrow sets a trap for Batman in which basically Bats fights Crane and Hush finds Selina, attacks her, and removes her heart hurting Bruce in the worse way possible.

It's a great sequel. Smaller then Hush but just as powerful. Paul Dini really improved on Hush in that, Hush Money, and House of Hush. Hush is definitely a better character then Eddie Brock's Venom.

Well Pre-New 52 Hush. New 52 Hush.....

I'll have to check out Heart of Hush then. Sounds fantastic. After Hush Returns, which was bloody AWFUL, I gave up reading Hush centric stories.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I'm just going to walk away from this discussion. There is no point attempting to debate a brick wall.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

I'll have to check out Heart of Hush then. Sounds fantastic. After Hush Returns, which was bloody AWFUL, I gave up reading Hush centric stories.

Yea Heart of Hush is great. Just stay away from New 52 Hush in Batman Eternal. After seeing his backstory, it is just bad. He successfully kills both hs parents and becomes like a Bruce Wayne fanboy and also picks up chicks saying he's Bruce.

He also looks like the Mad cartoon guy as a kid.

I love Snyder's Batman stuff but his Hush isn't good. First he took Nora away from Freeze in the New 52, now Hush is just bad.

I do like what he did to Riddler and Joker.

 

[Lantern Venom]

None of those heroes started out as villains. Venom did. Spectre and Deadman are ghosts basically and don't look as scary as Venom. Hellboy is a pancake eating, cat loving, baby saving, Howdy Doody fanboy. Hellboy doesn't look as scary as Venom. Also unlike Venon, Hellboy actually has substance. Venom is a razor sharp tooth, people eating (in Ultimate), black alien goo giant. Venom Chris Browned Black Cat. When you start off a villain like Venom and try to make him an anti-hero, its ****ing stupid.

While none of them were as villainous for as long as Venom, they did indeed have periods of being morally ambiguous if not morally objectionable. A character who is making deals with demonic/supernatural forces is conceptually scarier than a guy with a grudge. So I have to disagree with your point because comics are loaded with heroes who are both scary and have been previously non-heroic.

That is not years of displaced anger. That is flashback of clips from the previous three episodes he was in where Spider-Man spoiled his news stories. Two of them were from the same episode, The Lizard story that Spider-Man stopped him from exposing.

It does not flesh out or show anything about Eddie Brock. It just shows things we already knew from those episodes that he's annoyed at Spider-Man for usurping his news scoops, and that he blames him for stupid things like catching a cold lol.

It's a weak version of Venom. All of them are except Spider-Man 3.

It was a version of Eddie whose twisted psyche could blame Spider-man for things in which Spidey wasn't even directly involved, like his eviction and illness. It wasn't just a whiny brat who got caught cheating like the Blowpher version.

Years later ( In "The Last Temptation of Eddie Brock", I think) Eddie was mentally listing all of the ills that had befallen him in his life and attributing all of them to Peter. He ended with his cancer diagnosis and said something to the effect of " OK, I'm not sure how that's Parker's fault...but I'm working on it."

Eddie didn't even have a symbiote at that point (it was prior to Anti-Venom or Toxin), but he was still a rich character.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

It was a version of Eddie whose twisted psyche could blame Spider-man for things in which Spidey wasn't even directly involved, like his eviction and illness. It wasn't just a whiny brat who got caught cheating like the Blowpher version.

That is not twisted psyche. That is just pathetic loser fool. Cannot take a character seriously who blames someone for something they had nothing to do with. A villain who wants revenge for something that the hero really did do is much better villain. That makes for more believable feud. Topher Venom was much better because he had reason to hate Peter but comic book Venom had none. He is a stupid villain and a stupid character. His hatred of Spider-Man is silly and unbelievable.

Years later ( In "The Last Temptation of Eddie Brock", I think) Eddie was mentally listing all of the ills that had befallen him in his life and attributing all of them to Peter. He ended with his cancer diagnosis and said something to the effect of " OK, I'm not sure how that's Parker's fault...but I'm working on it."

See that is good example of how comically stupid he is. He gets cancer and thinks Spider-Man must have given it to him lol. Cannot take him seriously. He is pathetic. Not twisted.

Eddie didn't even have a symbiote at that point (it was prior to Anti-Venom or Toxin), but he was still a rich character.

That is not rich character. Being a loser idiot is not a rich character.

 

[Lantern Venom]

That is not twisted psyche. That is just pathetic loser fool. Cannot take a character seriously who blames someone for something they had nothing to do with. A villain who wants revenge for something that the hero really did do is much better villain. That makes for more believable feud. Topher Venom was much better because he had reason to hate Peter but comic book Venom had none. He is a stupid villain and a stupid character. His hatred of Spider-Man is silly and unbelievable.



See that is good example of how comically stupid he is. He gets cancer and thinks Spider-Man must have given it to him lol. Cannot take him seriously. He is pathetic. Not twisted.



That is not rich character. Being a loser idiot is not a rich character.

The sad aspect of SM3's misfire is that we finally could have seen a Spidey rivalry with a villain who actually hated Peter, not just because Spidey got in the way of some nefarious plan. Raimi could have even used Gwen's relationships to Eddie and Peter to give us something believable, but even that was a paper-thin construction. The fake photo story was so contrived and uninspired that I can't believe it wasn't immediately shot down.

It's obvious that Venom was like ex-lax to Sam Raimi: it's not something he wanted to take, but he moved it through his system as quickly as possible, and what came out was foul-smelling.

One of the reason's I like Webb's Electro so much is that the scene in his home that was a back story unto itself. We saw a guy who had built a volatile idol obsession over his life. Even though Peter didn't know him, it was already a personal relationship to Max. When it became clear that the relationship wasn't reciprocal, Max's emotions turn from positive to negative (see what I did there?) but with the same believable level of intensity.

In some ways, Electro was the execution of what Venom should have been in SM3. Eddie has lived his whole life with success and inclusion eluding him, despite his most dedicated efforts. Spider-man's intervention with the Sin-Eater became the avatar of Eddie's tumultuous life. It was personal for Eddie and personal for the symbiote, which sought out a host to match its own spurned feelings toward Peter. It would have been so sweet to see such a brilliant villain--one who actually believed he was the hero, and Spidey was the incognito bad guy--on a quest to eradicate his personal bogeyman.

Instead, we were force-fed the goofball from That 70s Crap, saying schlock such as, "I like being bad." Not only was that painful to see due to Blowpher's inability to act, it was the exact opposite motivation of what Venom should have had. It was so inexcusably awful.