Bob Harras new DC Editor-in-Chief

[Saint]

Thats because it looks like Batman Earth One will legitimately suck.

Based on what information, exactly?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

While we're talking about Cassandra Cain, though, the way she exited the role was, in fact, completely ******ed. She gets one page where she says "Oh, I'm leaving forever for some reason." Really? Lame. I guess they felt she was unsalvageable after Beechen ruined her and just wanted her out of the picture.

If they'd found some way to get rid of Beechen's junk and work her back to where she was at the end of her series, it would've made pretty good sense. She outgrew her need of parental figures, either good or bad, and decided to set out and become her own woman. Ditching the Batgirl identity was a perfectly natural extension of that.

Only, y'know, Beechen didn't notice that and had her go to Deathstroke, of all people, with her then-non-existent daddy issues.

 

[Saint]

If they'd found some way to get rid of Beechen's junk and work her back to where she was at the end of her series, it would've made pretty good sense. She outgrew her need of parental figures, either good or bad, and decided to set out and become her own woman. Ditching the Batgirl identity was a perfectly natural extension of that.

I wasn't reading at the end of her ongoing, but from what I've heard, yes, it sounds like it worked fairly well. I'll never understand why they decided to give Beechen another crack at her in the mini-series. I guess I just don't like the man. I'm reading Batman Beyond mini, and while he's not ruining anything this time around, the dialogue he writes (especially for Bruce) is getting on my nerves.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I imagine it was something like his editor wanted to give him a chance to fix his mistake while simultaneously challenging fans to put their money where their mouth is and show, via that mini's sales, that people still actually cared about Cassandra besides the internet loud-mouths. Which is ******ed for a number of reasons, but it's the best I can come up with.

 

[Saint]

I imagine it was something like his editor wanted to give him a chance to fix his mistake while simultaneously challenging fans to put their money where their mouth is and show, via that mini's sales, that people still actually cared about Cassandra besides the internet loud-mouths. Which is ******ed for a number of reasons, but it's the best I can come up with.

Yeah; handing the character back to the man who created the problem isn't going to get the fans back on board.

Reminds me of the Ion miniseries. I bought it because I want to support Kyle, but that book was crap (one reason being that Ron Marz doesn't really understand who Kyle's developed into since he created the character). So I understand why that mini never made the jump to an ongoing--if it's bad, even the people who would like to see the character endure aren't going to waste money on it.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Eh, I thought it had a rough start but developed into a decent story about halfway through. Not great, not bad. Marz was definitely writing a younger-feeling Kyle, though. He lacked a lot of the confidence he'd built over the years in the JLA and his own series.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Based on what information, exactly?

I'm a massive Geoff Johns fan and even I'm wary on him on Batman: Earth One. He already writes a pretty terrible Batman and he's doing this project mostly for Gary Frank.

 

[Hush]

Based on what information, exactly?

Character Designs are unappealing and the Story doesnt sound like it will be good and Johns history with Batman is not a pleasant one so yeah it looks to legitimately suck.

 

[Saint]

Character Designs are unappealing

All two of them? And since Batman just looks like Batman, you must just mean Alfred looks unappealing. Not much there to base a trend off of.

Story doesnt sound like it will be good

Explain what you know of the story that "Doesn't sound like it will be good."

and Johns history with Batman is not a pleasant one

In fact, Johns' writes a fairly solid Batman, based on what little there is to judge. He does make a point of occasionally bringing Batman back down to Earth when it comes to other heroes, which is understandable, but as far as characterization is concerned, his Batman is on the mark.

so yeah it looks to legitimately suck.

No, you don't seem to have made that case.

 

[Saint]

I'm a massive Geoff Johns fan and even I'm wary on him on Batman: Earth One. He already writes a pretty terrible Batman and he's doing this project mostly for Gary Frank.

Well, as I wrote in my previous post, I don't agree that he writes a terrible Batman. What makes you say his Batman is terrible, though? Also, what makes you say he's doing this project mostly for Gary Frank? I'm not sure why Gary Frank would need Geoff Johns to write a Batman project.

 

[Saint]

Eh, I thought it had a rough start but developed into a decent story about halfway through. Not great, not bad. Marz was definitely writing a younger-feeling Kyle, though. He lacked a lot of the confidence he'd built over the years in the JLA and his own series.

There were a couple of good moments, but it felt like a retread all around--Marz even pulled the "Killing Kyle's mother" card, which was also what he did in his last arc in Kyle's ongoing before Rebirth. What's more, it didn't really have an ending, or much of a coherent story to speak of. Very disappointing, despite a few neat bits (really, any time Kyle goes up against Nero, I'm game).

 

[Dread]

I heard about this news; to a degree, it was the biggest DC news of the week for me, even bigger than the end of Wildstorm & Zuda, or a good chunk of DC Entertainment moving out west (which was an expected move). Bob Harras had been working as an editor in and around Wildstorm for a decade, but kept a very low profile at DC. It is likely ironic that one of the artists he used to be in charge of, Jim Lee, is now very much HIS boss.

Harras' five year stewardship of Marvel (1995-2000) was full of it's ups and downs. He did end the Clone Saga, but some writers/creators have claimed he extended it another six months. The company went bankrupt on his watch, even if the seeds that led to it were planted at least a year before he took over. Some people claim he "didn't capitalize on the movies more", but when he stepped down from Marvel, only Fox's "X-MEN" had been made. Sony was still ironing out a Spider-Man film, and pretty much the only Marvel "films" on his watch were the TV movies for "GENERATION X" and "NICK FURY: AGENT OF SHIELD" (that starred the Hoff). Still, HEROES REBORN was a disaster. The Spider-Man books have still never recovered from the 90's, despite a trilogy of blockbuster films. The X-Books also went downhill, but one could say that of the Joe Q tenure as well.

Part of me doesn't see it as a great omen for DC Entertainment that wants to improve on years of malaise. It's like deciding to create the greatest President of all time during this Recession by making a cyborg of Herbert Hoover. Whether it was his fault or not, he was at the helm of Marvel during it's darkest years. Dan DiDio is still a co-publisher, but he shouldn't be in the same command of the line as he used to be. Geoff Johns is over him and he shares power with Jim Lee.

Although given Johns' story preferences, I am surprised Diane Nelson didn't simply fire Johns and hire his father instead. It's all about handing back legacies, right? If Johns is that good, then his father, or grandfather, has to be 500 times more relevant to our times, right?

Kidding.

It's easy to make fun of the Harras move. I don't think it's the best. But given his low modern profile (only people in the forties find ten years ago to be "recent"), it could be possible they wanted an EIC who would be more willing to tow the line of what DCE wants. He's being promoted to a familiar position, but still will take orders from a guy who used to spray-paint a costume onto Psylocke.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Well, as I wrote in my previous post, I don't agree that he writes a terrible Batman. What makes you say his Batman is terrible, though? Also, what makes you say he's doing this project mostly for Gary Frank? I'm not sure why Gary Frank would need Geoff Johns to write a Batman project.

Johns' Batman is just far too much of a dick. He was a dick in Infinite Crisis, he was a dick in Johns' run on JLA with Heinberg, he was a dick in Green Lantern: Rebirth, and he also wrote him as a dick in the Flash (though that one I accept because that was written rather well). He wrote Batman as a massive dick when Batdick was getting really old and irritiating.

Also, Johns himself said that this is a project for Gary Frank. Gary Frank is one of Johns' artists and Johns' artists will rarely do projects without him. Johns hordes his favorite artists and Scott Kolins working on Justice Society of America is one of the few times that a Johns artist is working without him (and even then, that's simply because DC nixed the Wally West backup that Kolins was supposed to work on with Johns). Gary Frank is a Batman fan first and foremost and repeatedly stated that he wanted to work on a Batman project to Johns when they were working on Superman together.

 

[Saint]

Johns' Batman is just far too much of a dick. He was a dick in Infinite Crisis, he was a dick in Johns' run on JLA with Heinberg, he was a dick in Green Lantern: Rebirth, and he also wrote him as a dick in the Flash (though that one I accept because that was written rather well). He wrote Batman as a massive dick when Batdick was getting really old and irritiating.

Fairly, I think that was deliberate--Johns was writing Batman as a major dick when DC's mandate was "Write Batman as a major dick." They were dealing with the fallout of the mindwipe debacle, OMAC, and all that--and they wanted the drive the point home because they were making a big deal of bringing Batman back to a silver age attitude after Infinite Crisis. Considering what was going on at the time, yeah, I would expect Batman to be a dick. He wasn't really in a good place.

That said, I don't agree that he was a Dick in Infinite Crisis, with the exception of when he mouthed off to Superman (and really, they were all acting like ***** at that point). I think Infinite Crisis had some great Batman moments (especially his breakdown).

I don't think Johns wrote Batman as a dick when it wasn't appropriate. Batman can be a dick. I would expect Batman to be a dick to Hal Jordan in Rebirth--but equally, I would also expect them him to get past that, which is exactly what Johns eventually wrote in GL. It's not all dick, all the time (snicker) with Johns, but yes, he will write Batman as a dick when it makes sense to do so, and I don't see that as any kind of failing.

Also, Johns himself said that this is a project for Gary Frank.

Link?

 

[Drz]

He already writes a pretty terrible Batman and he's doing this project mostly for Gary Frank.

Stop trying to spread this rumour over and over again. If Johns truly wanted to help out his buddy doing Batman, he would have just told Didio and Lee to attach Frank to a Batman ongoing or something.

While a Dickish Batman might not be the cup of tea of this boards' people, the sales show hat people still do enjoy a Frank Miller alike Batman. Batman odyssey is selling well, Dark Knight: Boy Wonder will definatly sell well and so forth. Not to mention it's really funny seeing people say the story sucks simply because Johns has admitted that Batman's first year will be rough as hell with his gadgets not being perfect among other things.

 

[Hush]

Saint, if you go in the Earth One thread its all in there and Drz its not a rumor its pretty much Black and White. Frank said he wanted to draw Batman and Johns said "well we can do it for Earth One...blah blah blah" its purely so that Gary can draw Batman.

 

[Drz]

Because clearly Johns personally has no interest of writing Batman. This is clearly him assigning himself on a Batman project, while he clearly could have just signed Gary to a Batman project.

This is the dumbest argument ever.

 

[Saint]

Stop trying to spread this rumour over and over again. If Johns truly wanted to help out his buddy doing Batman, he would have just told Didio and Lee to attach Frank to a Batman ongoing or something.

Yeah, it seems doubtful to me that Gary Frank would need Geoff Johns in order to work on Batman. That said, I can certainly see Frank preferring to work with Johns, and I can also imagine that would inform Johns decision on whether or not to write the book. So while I can see a favour to Frank being part of Johns decision to write the book, Hush's idea that he's doing it "purely so Gary can draw Batman" seems a little absurd.

 

[Hush]

The idea that my thought process on the manner is absurd is just as about absurd if not more so than the thought that this isn't the case with the project.

 

[Hound55]

Ouch, my brain.

 

[Saint]

The idea that my thought process on the manner is absurd is just as about absurd if not more so than the thought that this isn't the case with the project.

Er, okay?

 

[hippie_hunter]

Yeah, it seems doubtful to me that Gary Frank would need Geoff Johns in order to work on Batman. That said, I can certainly see Frank preferring to work with Johns, and I can also imagine that would inform Johns decision on whether or not to write the book. So while I can see a favour to Frank being part of Johns decision to write the book, Hush's idea that he's doing it "purely so Gary can draw Batman" seems a little absurd.

It's not simply Frank preferring to work with Johns. It's that Johns tends to have special relationships with his artists to the point where they only want to work with Johns. Batman: Earth One is being done mostly so that Gary Frank can have his dream job of working on Batman.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Stop trying to spread this rumour over and over again. If Johns truly wanted to help out his buddy doing Batman, he would have just told Didio and Lee to attach Frank to a Batman ongoing or something.

Except Johns doesn't want to let Frank go and Frank doesn't want to write with another writer. It's not that he doesn't want to write Batman. But he wouldn't be doing this if Gary Frank didn't want to do it.

While a Dickish Batman might not be the cup of tea of this boards' people, the sales show hat people still do enjoy a Frank Miller alike Batman. Batman odyssey is selling well, Dark Knight: Boy Wonder will definatly sell well and so forth. Not to mention it's really funny seeing people say the story sucks simply because Johns has admitted that Batman's first year will be rough as hell with his gadgets not being perfect among other things.

Dark Knight: Boy Wonder is going to sell well because of Jim Lee and Batman: Odyssey is not bombing because of the creative team. Both are doing poorly in regards of critical reception.

 

[Saint]

It's not simply Frank preferring to work with Johns. It's that Johns tends to have special relationships with his artists to the point where they only want to work with Johns. Batman: Earth One is being done mostly so that Gary Frank can have his dream job of working on Batman.

What information are you basing this on? Naturally, certain teams prefer to work together, but I'm not aware of any special relationship that would have Gary Frank work exclusively with Johns--especially when one considers he seems to have worked without Johns more than he's worked with him.

Except Johns doesn't want to let Frank go

Again, based on what information?

But he wouldn't be doing this if Gary Frank didn't want to do it.

Honestly not trying to be a dick (for once), but once more, based on what information?

As I said before, I'm perfectly willing to entertain the idea that Gary Frank is part of the reason Johns is writing this title, but when the suggestion you're making is that it's the only reason, I'm going to need a little more than what you're giving me.

 

[Drz]

Exactly. Why is it hard to think Johns might wanna write his own Batman?