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Bought/Thought XXX - 2-22-12

Yeah, he is better but I've followed Cassie since she was a kid in Johns Avengers run all through her time as a hero. It's kind of a bummer that she probably dies.
 
If you followed her that long, you're aware that she kind of sucks. :o
 
Big fan of whiny, angsty teen girls prone to emotional breakdowns, are you? You dog, you. :awesome:
 
Actually, that Ant-Man hasn't been confirmed anywhere to be O'Grady. In fact, I think Fraction mentioned at a convention that it wasn't O'Grady, but now he's saying "it might be, it might not be."

I see. Still, no end of superhero comics hand ended with the hero seemingly being killed and then the next issue all is revealed, so I'm reserving judgements.

O'Grady's OK but I'd rather see Scott Lang fill the role again. It looks like he's sticking around post Children's Crusade.

It does? Where? That comic comes out so slowly I often forget about it.

The subject came up once before, but I don't like the idea of Cassie Lang biting it. She's been a "young character" for quite a while from Fantastic Four to Young Avengers and I rarely see it as a good idea to ice off young blood for old blood. That's literally all DC Comics does, and it is a major turn off. It is a backward legacy.

It does look like AVX could be used to reverse M-Day, and if Scott Lang's resurrection was permanent, that would mean a damn lot of DISASSEMBLED from 2004 would have been erased, right down to Vision coming back (despite somehow having a soul in the afterlife in CHAOS WAR: DEAD AVENGERS). It is often an offhanded admission of failure when every element from a "THIS WILL CHANGE EVERYTHING!" story or direction is reversed brick by brick and word by word; DC has done it a few times, under the DiDio era.

I voiced concern about Scott Lang living because then we would technically have about 5 characters in the books with the exact same power and the exact same power source; Hank Pym/Giant-Man, Eric O'Grady/Ant-Man, Scott Lang/Ant-Man, Cassie Lang/Stature, and technically Rita DeMara/Yellowjacket, who was revived during CHAOS WAR. This isn't counting the inevitability that Janet Van Dyne/Wasp will be revived the SECOND she is about to turn up in a movie (such as if "ANT-MAN" EVER gets into production, or if she gets a go in "THE AVENGERS 2" or something). DC once got a lot from a family of speedsters, but this is growing/shrinking; it isn't THAT useful, really. Growing to 60 feet tall merely means becoming exactly half as strong as The Hulk, and shrinking to ant-size is good for stealth and not much else. Pym gets the most play with it, since he was the originator and is a scientist. The others, though, are just cribbing off his notes. O'Grady, DeMara, and Cassie in particular aren't scientists at all.

Duplicating characters mindlessly has never, ever worked for long. INCREDIBLE HULK expanded the cast so that every member of Banner's supporting cast was a Hulk, and he got TWO SONS to boot, and the franchise was selling like dirt before the latest relaunch. Wolverine is selling at the lowest point in history after sprouting two kids. It will remain to be seen how long ASM can support two spin-off titles, even if they are good; the same could be said of Captain America and to a lessor degree, Fantastic Four. My point is that now isn't the time to make a Team Ant-Man, because they've never been popular enough to withstand that. What, every team in Marvel gains a PYM INCORPORATED size-changer, just like they may soon all get a BANNER INCORPORATED Hulk character? That's lame.

Cassie Lang has a legacy to live up to, and O'Grady has a redemption path. DeMara at least has the Yellowjacket name nobody wants right now. So I suppose four could be okay so long as no two characters have the same name. You can't really have two characters with the same codename; it gets confusing. Just ask the Conner Hawk Green Arrow. Kate Bishop may be CALLED Hawkeye, but nobody treats her seriously in that role. I imagine I am making more of DeMara than I should since I doubt anyone will use her again, but you still can't really have two people calling themselves Ant-Man at the same time.

I'll admit it may work, at least in terms of character although not in terms of power level, if Marvel really did treat it like a "family" of characters. Pym would be the sage and the mentor figure, with Scott Lang being probably the second in command version, the one closest to the originator due to experience. Lang would have a daughter who by now is a heroine and Avenger in her own right to have to mentor and show the ropes to, and accept (especially since once upon a time, growing was a strain on her heart). O'Grady would be the black sheep who nobody likes and who doesn't like being there, but who both sides may need. Rita DeMara would be the oddball since she hails from another dimension/timeline and even used to be an enemy, but she's also back from the dead so she has her own perspective. I imagine an old school writer like Mark Waid or Kurt Busiek could actually make that work. However, I am absolutely confident that nobody at Marvel is entertaining this idea and is so have a clue how to execute it properly. So right now I am figuring Cassie will be dead, Rita will never turn up again except in some MARVEL HANDBOOK update, Scott will mourn for approximately 2-3 issues of material before some writer has him act like he used to in 1989 and O'Grady may live because a-holes are easy and fun to write. But that's just me being cynical. :o
 
I hope Cassie doesn't bite it. I'm rather getting an aversion to kids/teenagers dying in comic books, ever since they decided to kill Lian Harper in Cry for Justice. Kids shouldn't be dying anyway, so why would we want that in our stories? Besides that, offing Cassie Lang now would probably lead to nothing. How often do we see the Young Avengers? Maybe if they got their own title again, you could have them grieving for some time. Really let it have an impact. But, really, do we want to see Scott Lang, dad without a daughter? It's morbid.

And as I've recently read all of The Irredeemable Ant-Man, I think it would be a shame to kill Eric O'Grady. He's a fun character, who has a long way to go. His redemption is nowhere near complete, although this issue of Secret Avengers certainly helped him on the path. I think it'd be great to keep him on that team, regularly interacting with Hank Pym.

As for Scott and Cassie? Just get Cassie to go to Avengers Academy with Vision Jr. Have it be a request from her dad. There, she gets lessons from Hank Pym and has a chance to grow as a character, rather than just kill off another teen. Then either have Scott Lang join the New or normal Avengers. Or he could just a get a break for a while. While I like him, he is a bit superfluous at this point. I'd just get him a supporting role somewhere (maybe Academy too), as Scott Lang rather than as an Ant or Giant-Man.

Forward, not backwards.
 
It does? Where? That comic comes out so slowly I often forget about it.

He was still standing at the end of CC #8. they teased him getting killed right off again by Doom until Cassie stepped in and took him on leading to her possible death.


I voiced concern about Scott Lang living because then we would technically have about 5 characters in the books with the exact same power and the exact same power source; Hank Pym/Giant-Man, Eric O'Grady/Ant-Man, Scott Lang/Ant-Man, Cassie Lang/Stature, and technically Rita DeMara/Yellowjacket, who was revived during CHAOS WAR. This isn't counting the inevitability that Janet Van Dyne/Wasp will be revived the SECOND she is about to turn up in a movie (such as if "ANT-MAN" EVER gets into production, or if she gets a go in "THE AVENGERS 2" or something).

There's always been multiple people with that power set all throughout Marvel history. There's been 4 Goliaths, 2 Giant-Man's, 3 Yellowjackets, 2 Wasps and 3 Ant-Man's. This is nothing new, it's been going on since the 70's.
 
I'm teasing. There's 2 green Hulks, 1 red Hulk, 2 green She-Hulks, 1 red She-hulk and 2 Abominations - 1 green/1 blue.........so, yeah.....57.
 
Too Many. Green, Red, She, Red-She, Skaar, A-Bomb and Lyra.
 
Yeah but a green and a blue Abomination was listed. Currently there should only be a blue one. Green one's still dead last I checked.
 
Maybe they're counting his eventual resurrection. This IS comics, after all.
 
He's probably still dead. I wasn't reading Hulk then so I wouldn't know. I just assumed he came back by now.
 
I agree, the list of Hulks has expanded to insane proportions, but handled by the right writers it's actually pretty fun. I was enjoying the Hulk Family towards the end of Incredible. I think it had some miles in it before the relaunch.
 
I agree. It was good stuff.
 
Red Hulk under Parker, Skarr under Pak, and A-Bomb are usually okay. Red She-Hulk and Lyra are f***ing terrible. Korg should show up more often.
 
I've found Red She-Hulk to be bearable in The Defenders.

Lyra's pointless, though.
 
I hope Cassie doesn't bite it. I'm rather getting an aversion to kids/teenagers dying in comic books, ever since they decided to kill Lian Harper in Cry for Justice. Kids shouldn't be dying anyway, so why would we want that in our stories? Besides that, offing Cassie Lang now would probably lead to nothing. How often do we see the Young Avengers? Maybe if they got their own title again, you could have them grieving for some time. Really let it have an impact. But, really, do we want to see Scott Lang, dad without a daughter? It's morbid.

And as I've recently read all of The Irredeemable Ant-Man, I think it would be a shame to kill Eric O'Grady. He's a fun character, who has a long way to go. His redemption is nowhere near complete, although this issue of Secret Avengers certainly helped him on the path. I think it'd be great to keep him on that team, regularly interacting with Hank Pym.

As for Scott and Cassie? Just get Cassie to go to Avengers Academy with Vision Jr. Have it be a request from her dad. There, she gets lessons from Hank Pym and has a chance to grow as a character, rather than just kill off another teen. Then either have Scott Lang join the New or normal Avengers. Or he could just a get a break for a while. While I like him, he is a bit superfluous at this point. I'd just get him a supporting role somewhere (maybe Academy too), as Scott Lang rather than as an Ant or Giant-Man.

Forward, not backwards.

Agreed. I really can't think of much to add besides that.

Forward, not backwards, should be typed on a large sign and posted around editorial bullpens at Marvel & DC, at least if I ran than things.

He was still standing at the end of CC #8. they teased him getting killed right off again by Doom until Cassie stepped in and took him on leading to her possible death.

Right, but until we see how issue #9 goes, I will take it with a grain of salt. Scarlet Witch could revive her, and so could a few characters present. We'll see how it goes.

There's always been multiple people with that power set all throughout Marvel history. There's been 4 Goliaths, 2 Giant-Man's, 3 Yellowjackets, 2 Wasps and 3 Ant-Man's. This is nothing new, it's been going on since the 70's.

It is a bit awkward, though.

I'd rather Cassie not die, though.
 

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