Buzzfeed Polls General Audience On The DCEU

[Marvin]

@Superchan

Entertaining you by searching up data such as numbers that you would simply dismiss by way of crediting the artist or timing like u did already, wouldn't be prudent. I’ll simply point out two things: Firstly noticing that you singled out those two stories, I’ll point out that I listed a good deal more than just two, though I should say I'd probably be as hard pressed to prove Timm and KingdomComes reception given how this is going. Thus instead of chasing the rabbit into the hole I’ll leave it at that. Secondly, I should have noticed sooner why this seems to go round and round, my fault really. Somehow we went from my pointing to “Well Received” superman, to you asking for “well received”, to now me failing to provide proof of “amongst the BEST received”. The difference between a well received cbm to among the best received is considerable. I should have simply asked you provide proof that they ill received and called it a day, as I am now.

You earlier tried to drive home the idea that any sort of debate/discussion with you must derive from something as reductive as “you just can't stand that someone doesn't like the DCEU's superman.” To which I specifically explained that maybe it’s not so petty, maybe people like me don’t agree with your arguments themselves ie : quality by way of fidelity as foundation for critique, even in a post deconstructionist world. And once more we are back to the insistence on simply not ‘liking’ your views. No matter what it simply your narrative and your narrative again. And why would I put someone on ignore? Every opinion has a worth and isn’t worth purposely ignoring. That's more a fanboy thing if you ask me.

And I see you just doubled down on the your misinterpretation of the quote to suit your agenda. But I suppose you tossing in the phrase “I guess” counts for something. Whether you like the films or not should have nothing to do with basic comprehension. Ironically all this is pointless for I tend to agree with your latter point, it wasn’t well received for reasons such as those. The validity of those reasons in a discussion about the art of film/story is what has always been the question.

Those polls, are the only thing that’s really relevant to this thread, I see you doubled down on your extrapolated data analysis. I’ll double down on the retort and call it a day: You take Nolan's 3 film trilogy, ask 100k people which is their favorite. There will likely be skewing. Ask them which is the best. God forbid ask them which is the best Villain. Then in come detractors who will quickly make posts about how the rest are piles of **** and the fans have spoken! That's all those polls technically prove. But you do what you gotta do. And no, sorry I don’t actually take any of that as a personal attack, but I suppose of you spoke as so, it must be true.

"Good Luck" to yourself as well.

 

[Marvin]

@flint
Amusing thought you scurrying to find the perfect gif. As contributive as ever.
Your current avy saddled with just your detraction or adoration of these films is almost all we who disagree with you will ever need.
Fair warning it will likely be used as a single gif retort to some of your stuff down the road.

 

[Superchan]

Ironically all this is pointless for I tend to agree with your latter point, it wasn’t well received for reasons such as those. The validity of those reasons in a discussion about the art of film/story is what has always been the question.

The reasons are purely arbitrary, they're not valid or invalid, they're my reasons, hence the IMOs that were littered in my paragraphs and as it so happens there are many people (including the SJ team) who share those reason.
The reception to Snyder's films, like you said, is hard to dispute.

Regarding the data that you don't want to research, well you really haven't presented any for me to dispute.

I said that I haven't read trial by fire and Timm's JLU is not comics so lets try and stick to the comics discussion that you started shall we.
I did forget KC because no offense man but you write way too much, to the point that one tends to forget everything that's written.
But back to KC, i don't share you opinion that Superman resembled the DCEU one. Sure he might've at the beginning when Diana found him in his made up farm fantasy but when he decided to stop moping and get back to business, he was the charismatic leader that I wanted him to be.
To be more precise for tomorrow and OWAW weren't generally well received at all, let alone being place amongst the best stories.

You don't agree with my arguments? That's perfectly fine man and I'm glad you're not taking any of this personally, these forums are meant for good spirited discussions.

Lastly regarding the poll, like I said before it doesn't represent the consensus of the general public regardless of how large the participation is because the Buzzfeed isn't exactly a google frontpage but it does represent the fandom, or atleast more so than any other poll I've seen due to the size of the participation.

p.s. when I said good luck, I really meant it....sans the quotation marks but you said you're not taking any of this seriously so I'll say thanks.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

Superman is only a 1% threat? Interesting way of framing it I suppose.

Can't say i'm sure just what the issue is, however easy enough to get past for one simple point. One realizes in this narrative, the batman hasn't always been this way, and the one time we saw him deal with the joker(SS) he was still 'non pycho, but perfectly sane and normal' batman. We theoretically haven't even seen post The superman, batman deal with the joker. And we likely never will given his reform.

Hmm maybe this wouldn't be an issue if in BvS we were shown more directly that Batman has changed; I know many of us recognize he has become more brutal but perhaps it would have been better to show a before and after with Batman in BvS. Oh who am I kidding, people would still complain.

BTW I admire your patience with superchan.

 

[Marvin]

The...

Firstly I hardly said the reception to his films is hard to dispute(mos is nothing but a dispute). I said "it"(bvs) was ill received, as in, I was referring to that film. As for the IMO's, as I mentioned before, when you IMO 'what people think' you are stepping outside of yourself and welcoming a challenge, for if you imo what you think there is no challenge attainable. What's more, all I did was assert that you were speaking for others, I didn't even say anything beyond that. ("I'm glad it's all 'in your opinion' even though you are taking it upon yourself to speak for the masses.")

I honestly don't care if you read the books or not, limiting this to what you've read would no doubt defeat the entire premise. My point was that they exist and they were well received, and at the very least not 'rejected'(like this movie) as you would assert is the outcome of not hitting the so called needed corner stones. When it comes to bruce timm/jlu, here are my words verbatim "I've read and seen many a well received superman story", So no, let's not stick to 'comics' as per the conversation 'I' actually started. I know, alot of writing and a confunded list of seven stories...
As for KC, he's hardly charismatic to me other than getting people to follow him though there are other reasons for that, charisma to me, that would be Reeve. That would be McCounaughey. Still I suppose there is Hitler. For me in that book, He's mopey and when he comes back he's still mad/sad but with an ugly purpose, then mopey again, enough to KILL innocents I mean come on. Put snyder's name on the material and it would be the same old ****.

Again never said anything about the best stories, I said well received.I would add Azzerello's Luthor book as well. Interesting however you are saying here they were ill received. Taking a page out of your book, do u plan on proving this somehow? I know both got collected and went into multiple reprints given my copies. Usually a good sign given how much we equate success with numbers here.

The Poll
Even if it was a million billion people that voted the rebuttal remains the same.
Asking a 'consensus' to choose between TDK and sayyy, Thor(just so there is no confusion), will skew due to it being a multiple choice format. Nowhere in there are you then able to assert 'the masses think the latter is a piece of **** film and because so and so'. That's not what the data represents. You want that(which u clearly do) you find a graph that asks people if they think such and such is a pos movie(or not), till then it's all a bit desperate...imo..

And yes I took your meaning seriously. I appreciate it to be sure.

 

[Marvin]

Hmm maybe this wouldn't be an issue if in BvS we were shown more directly that Batman has changed; I know many of us recognize he has become more brutal but perhaps it would have been better to show a before and after with Batman in BvS. Oh who am I kidding, people would still complain.

BTW I admire your patience with superchan.

Nah he/she is just passionate, however negative, fan forums invite that. Moreover I've been called worse by people that either don't get my arguments or don't like em.

As for your point, there are many things such as that which could have helped, add 5 more scenes on top of even that one and that would have helped even more. The question is when is too much, when is enough. When is it pandering when is asking too much of your audience. Momento/Fight Club could have been 'clearer', but making a film where people have to put things together is sometimes part of the point. I for one think we were given enough to put that together, especially given batman isn't some original character they just invented but are rather deconstructing of american lore and a big trilogy that most of this audience comes in knowing(to it's detriment apparently). Still, I'm sure it would have helped.

 

[Marvin]

Seems awfully convenient. All of a sudden Batman gets bloodlust that just coincides with Superman showing up.

gotdamn it
@MidnightPhoenix

 

[Superchan]

when you IMO 'what people think'

That never was the intention but it's unfortunate that it sounded like that to you. Moving on...

When it comes to bruce timm/jlu, here are my words verbatim "I've read and seen many a well received superman story", So no, let's not stick to 'comics' as per the conversation 'I' actually started. I know, alot of writing and a confunded list of seven stories...

Sorry I missed the "I've seen" parts but honesty your response was dense with paragraphs without much separation.

As for KC, he's hardly charismatic to me. Put snyder's name on the material and it would be the same old ****.

Totally disagree and we'll have to agree on that.
Also I'm confused are you calling Snyder's DC stuff s**t? Because if so then I agree.

Taking a page out of your book, do u plan on proving this somehow? I know both got collected and went into multiple reprints given my copies. Usually a good sign given how much we equate success with numbers here.

I can absolutely try, but since I asked first....

Also saying that those stories got multiple reprints isn't exactly enough, do you have actual numbers and how those compare to say an All star Superman or a Red son?

The Poll

You know what I finally see what you mean and..............................you've got a point!! I suppose based on the buzzfeed poll it's safer to say that a big portion of the fandom prefer WW and SS to Snyder's films.

And yes I took your meaning seriously. I appreciate it to be sure

Awesome

BTW I admire your patience with superchan.

Again I say to anyone who can't seem to accept any criticism towards Snyder and DCEU if you don't like my posts then ignore them or put me on ignore or both. No need to get frustrated over other people's opinions.

 

[The Batman]

Again I say to anyone who can't seem to accept any criticism towards Snyder and DCEU if you don't like my posts then ignore them or put me on ignore or both. No need to get frustrated over other people's opinions.

Mydnight gets bent out of shape about any DCEU criticism, yet has no problem sharing her disdain for Adam West Batman...on the day everyone found out he passed away. Go figure.

 

[Boy Scout]

As someone who's read KC, the comparison between that Superman and Cavill's is DOA.

 

[The Joker]

Mydnight also likes going around complaining about the DCEU criticism as though it's bad behavior ruining the forums, but has no problem insulting the detractors, and making snide remarks like the one above about Superchan.

I don't know how he/she has not been banned yet.

 

[StormC]

As someone who's read KC, the comparison between that Superman and Cavill's is DOA.

Yeah, no kidding. KC is how you do a "dark" Superman well.

 

[Marvin]

As someone who's read KC, the comparison between that Superman and Cavill's is DOA.

..Smiling, killing intent(only in KC, that's well after a no kill rule is in place and serves as the whole point), lack of optimism, lack of joy, no having fun doing his job, surrounded by dead bodies and nukes going off, himself the impetus for alot of it and more. Bad decisions left and right.
There are comparisons a plenty.

Save for the idea that this new one didn't actually exile himself but 2days, while KC for years. Then again the other one did lose lois(his 'world') and faced a human race that wasn't worth it's salt.

One is a dark tale in the latter portion of his career, one is a so called dark tale at the start. The real point was for all the talk of All Star superman, KC is an example of...very much not all star. All that stuff can exist in this material as the initial statement asserted.

Cue the 'if done right' opinion statements. When the reality that even Waid himself should concede. Is that it can exist in superman period. I'm currently not seeing that in the overall conversation. Johns will be, joy hope and optimism back home, for it's been missing as it were.
(pretty psyched).

 

[StormC]

KC is a very specific version of Superman in a very specific time and story. I wouldn't want that to be the default characterization, but it works very well for the small window of a story that the comic is.

Would you want a Batman story to start with him crippled in a wheelchair and conspiring with Lex Luthor while he has drones patrolling Gotham?

 

[Grommers]

KC is a very specific version of Superman in a very specific time and story. I wouldn't want that to be the default characterization, but it works very well for the small window of a story that the comic is.

Would you want a Batman story to start with him crippled in a wheelchair and conspiring with Lex Luthor while he has drones patrolling Gotham?

I'm not against it - I think having a "definitive" view of the same character over and over which has turned me off from the MCU films is where the DCEU has the potential to really change the game and allow for even more unique stories to come out instead of just the simple "heres the big bad"

 

[DocHolliday]

Link: https://www.buzzfeed.com/DarthFredster/how-popular-are-your-dc-extended-universe-opinons-2j1dk?utm_term=.ehOPz2QlVq#.elAx1lpqvo


This seems to be a pretty large poll and Buzzfeed is a site that would generally draw in regular audience members outside the fandoms.

Some of the results may surprise you, or not.


Which main character of the DCEU is the best?

Wonder Woman = 74% [81.9K Votes]

Batman = 18% [20.2K Votes]

Superman = 8% [8119 Votes]


I'd argue the Nolan Batman would have fared a lot better, but it's shocking to see Batman defeated in such a manner.

This is what happens when you use Frank Miller's versions of Batman and Superman and adapt them to the big screen. Making DKR the starting point for a cinematic universe was beyond stupid. Elseworlds stories should be limited to animated adaptations(where DKR actually worked). Though it looks like the morons at Warner haven't learned from this mistake if the rumors of a Red Son adaptation are true.

 

[Flint Marko]

@flint
Amusing thought you scurrying to find the perfect gif. As contributive as ever.
Your current avy saddled with just your detraction or adoration of these films is almost all we who disagree with you will ever need.
Fair warning it will likely be used as a single gif retort to some of your stuff down the road.

Why do you consistently bring up my various avatars as if that somehow proves a point?

Forcing confirmation: the loudest trumpeters of RT are those that love what it's been saying about their favorite franchises, for all their talk.... looking at your own avy, I suppose that's that.

I mean playing the game of logical inference for a minute: one look at your last avy and another look at your sig and I'd be 'justified' in thinking you are predisposed to something approaching bais, but that wouldn't be fair, ironically.

That last one was from the FF debates, btw. How'd that turn out again?

 

[Marvin]

Why do you consistently bring up my various avatars as if that somehow proves a point?





That last one was from the FF debates, btw. How'd that turn out again?

As if associating me with that somehow proves whatever point you are trying to make here about avatars? Guess it counts for something.
The film sucked, ignoring the studio interference and overhaul, the movie turned out very poor. You'll note what I said revolved around the film needing to be good on it's own merits as opposed to simply tickling the fan boy scrotum of fidelity to a specific era. And I still stand by that for that film clearly lacked in quality(and set pieces) Fox sometimes succeeds in this approach with their other titles.
Later into just how we define facts, and into conjecture. One look at Rogue one's behind the scene crap and anyone who wants the rights to revert can still conjecture that film will fail in every second post of that forum and then claim facts. Now they have fired more talent off of their next picture, makes me wonder how unprofessional Lord/Miller were in relation to Trank and how much of a **** show HanSolo will be. "..there's smoke there's fire" and all the rest of the negativity moonlighting as fanfare. And of course my retort about that mcu villain issue that seems to still be lingering. The film stunk. Not every film I say that exact same stuff about has or will in the future, and I'll say it about almost all of them. Ergo great point, i guess. Now that I bit onto that red herring(couldn't help it) back to the actual point.

Wasn't your sig during that time something about 'bring F4 and everything else back home' or some such? Hard to take your conjecture in that same forum any other way when its sandwiched in said agenda. That's why I did it if u must know. It was timely. At least some people present the air of, let's call it 'bi partisan' when bashing endlessly something for years(pre-release even) while doing the opposite for all installments of the 'home team'. That was my point then. My point just now was that this new avy is the best/worst one. Moreso, if u really aim to elevate discussion to the the level of chiming gif arguments and rebuts, I can imagine how it will go.

 

[Marvin]

KC is a very specific version of Superman in a very specific time and story. I wouldn't want that to be the default characterization, but it works very well for the small window of a story that the comic is.

Would you want a Batman story to start with him crippled in a wheelchair and conspiring with Lex Luthor while he has drones patrolling Gotham?

By definition, these films are no less elseworlds than any graphic novel. They’re not even somehow tied to the main comic books continuity(like KC was), it’s simply an elseworlds story and nothing to do with “the default” characterization anything. I get how that doesn't exempt them from not being liked by an individual but it's clearly no actual starting point for art criticism in this case. Though we see it every other page here. In short whether a person likes KC and it's tone/ideas/direction, they can't say it's bad cause superman is sad/mad/dark. They would be wise to stick to 'real' flaws and that books celebration is the proof.

Answering ur question, I’m urged to add that BvS itself also is a very specific time, story and window in Batman’s life as it were. Particularly when it comes to talk of defaults. KC is a story that justifies all that characterization by way of circumstance, it’s superman by way of harsh years, losing lois to the joker and humanity sucking much like it does in the real world. You don’t have fans running around shouting ‘they messed superman up’ or ‘not my superman’ even though one could easily say “not my aged superman”(as we’ve seen him in other stories). 'Instory' circumstance is the avenue to all things. It’s the difference between a legit light/fun Logan movie and what we got this year. They’ve gone out of their way in this decu to present a result that is the product of circumstance with all the characters(including diana) and yet people can’t or won’t make that jump. Even the writer of KC, whose review was an ironic rant about 'not my superman'.

In your hypothetical about a batman story starting with him ‘at the end’, you missed the notion that it’s not actually the start of his story, if anything it’s closer to the middle. The start was him in his early years and we are jumping in, just like we did in kc. Which wasn't the 'start' of anything but a book.
Why would I ever opt for this, cause I find it interesting and valid, beyond criticism by way of "want." After going through 10 batman and superman movies all doing the same thing, maybe a deconstruction of that same stuff people now understand backwards and forwards is in order, maybe starting backwards and ending at a recognizable place is an interesting artistic direction, and a bold yet timely stroke in a saturated market and coming off a dozen occurrences of these same characters doing the same **** and, superman sales down and superman returns(doing it right) still flopping. What was unforeseen is how easy it is to hate the change now that 'everyone knew it backwards and forwards'. Simply doing it 'right' would have been a clear win. On the plus side, people are now foaming at the mouth for that boring old superman they were ready to dismiss earlier. An interesting spot to be and I’m sure john’s will make the most of it.

 

[Victarion]

Too much to read.

I'd do the Nolan approach where each hero gets their own trilogy that works as a self-contained story. Save the big stuff like Apokolips for the JL crossover trilogy.

 

[metaphysician]

Problem is, they *can't* be self-contained trilogies in the Nolan model if you intend to do a crossover later. Or rather, whether such a crossover would be possible would be entirely up to luck. There would have to be at least some minimal setting bible work to make sure the independent movies don't exist on different and incompatible planets.