You actually remind me of another poster who likes to argue instead of discuss, ok that's fine but when I say fanboys like myself I meant those who share my opinion and there are alot of them, which makes DCEU fans like yourself so defensive.
I could easily sight the idea of the number of posters you and your aims remind me of...I'd be wrong and I'd be pathetic in turning to that in a debate. 'So defensive' next it'll be 'soo angry'. More attempts to characterize any sort of opposition that technically doesn't see eye to eye with you or whose point either you don't get, like or don't agree with for the time being? Pointless I prefer discussion and I'm hardly defensive but don't let my own words stop u from speaking for me.
Anyhow, On topic. You said the film failed and by way of not meeting these corner stones as fanboys such as yourself see them, great. Then when i noted that you are speaking for others you said 'no no I said IMO', I said u spoke not simply as to why YOU didn't like the film but as to why the many(many) didn't either. I say many cause it not just fanboys that would sink a film. Once more:
"I for one recognize any creator's desire to change things when they see fit but also reserve the right to dismiss such changes when they don't pan out and that's exactly what happened with BvS IMO. People showed up in droves to see those 2 characters come together on screen and then they stayed away the subsequent weeks and the film underperformed."
In your opinion or otherwise, this is little suzie's issue with the film and why she 'stayed away'. I simply pointed out what you were doing, didn't even say it was right or wrong. Own it or don't, or revise it again. I really don't care at this point.
No you said ignoring your assertion that they came out of the womb (80 years ago) like this, which implies that I said that the superman books have not changed for 80s and that's not what I said but again it's clear that you're looking for an argument and I'm not interested so I move on.
Ok I'll level with you on this. Clearly you misunderstood my meaning and Ill show you were it was exactly. You said
'These "preconceptions" have been in place for nearly 8 decades when talking about Superman and Batman, so much so that they've become part of the intrinsic make up of these 2 characters so when someone like Snyder comes and craps on such preconceptions, many fanboys like myself get upset.' Literally your words. I responded with
"To answer your question tho, yes I've read these books myself, ignoring your assertion that they came out of the womb (80 years ago) like this, when in almost all cases they were different, particularly bill fingers batman." Noticed I mentioned bill finger, as in the guy who created bats in 39? That's a hint/signal that I'm talking about the birth, not the amount of change over time. The term out of the womb here, means since birth. I didn't say two words about "not changed".
I see now what you think that statement implied, but maybe now you get what it actually meant. You know, without assuming and such. And if you didn't, now you do. Moving on.
And huh, those event(books) and that Azzerello book were ill received? Simply citing that jim lee did the art and the sales went up is hardly an argument, where is the evidence that it wasn't well received? Example, All star Batman ironically by jim lee is an ill received book! DarkKnightStrikeBack is an ill received book. Those superman books I cited aren't all star supermansure(some are) but then again I never said they were I said they were well received, you know unlike these 'rejected films'?
Joe Kelly's action 775 has aspects you pointed to sure, it also lacks them at times along with other preconceptions as was my point. Even if all you could do was pull a single poignant line that met your requirements from the very end of the story. Amount is what seems to be the issue with the films, not enough charm vs the scenes where he is clearly charming. Not enough enjoyment vs the flight scene for instance. You pulled one line.
Again I never challenged superman killing and hating Snyder's superman because he's mopey and sad is an actual critique by me, you just can't stand that someone doesn't like the DCEU's superman.
More of this I see. I'm debating these things with you because 'I just can't stand someone that doesn't like this stuff'? You're speaking for me again aren't you? Because I don't like anyone that hates this or stuff I don't? It's not possible I'm debating you cause I don't agree with your points or how you are going about making them? You and those(fanboys like you as u say) must be all this half decade of hate all simply because you can't stand that someone doesn't hate this stuff as much as you, yat hat's the ticket. That's what that amounts to btw. One of the stupidest ways to go about this in my experience and no doubt with an argumentative fallacy named after it. All the good ones do.
For the last time I never said you said a word about killing, that's actually the person I was talking to before you jumped in. I never said u said a word about smiling. But YOU said Snyder wanted to go against the preconceptions that fans have held for 80 years. A no kill rule and joy are preconceptions associated with this material are they not? I mean they must be if I see them ever few pages or so. Corner stones even, in the hearts of many a fanboy? Snyder didn't do those things(supposedly) for many fans that rejected the film. ERgo...maybe next time he should stick to them i guess.
As for what your source is, I honestly don't know what books you are reading. I have an idea but I'd hate to assume. They are clearly different from material I've seen. Particularly if I'm listing source wrought with stuff you suggest isn't..in source. Just don't get how you could have missed jlu.
As for me speaking for the masses by talk of homecoming vs the early mcu in a poll.
Where in that post did I say what would happen? All I said those movies aren't classics the way TDK are and then I
specifically said "lets see what happens..
it may be skewed it may not be", I didn't say what would happen, nor did I say it would be skewed. My point is let's do that and 'see what happens'. I mean seriously. The entire point of that bit is in setting up a circumstance very comparable to what we have here. I want to see that pole looks like all I said, for that would be the equivalent comparison. Infering there will likely be skewing is a great deal different then speaking as to what the fans will choose and thus speaking for them. Maybe stop with all this 'assuming' talk and just read what's written.
As for me taking things too seriously, nah. I meant if you are going to start making the points for me maybe I should stop. You said raimi stuff, as good as it was, we've grown out of it. Asserting a correlation between time, relevance and favoritism. That was my point entirely. Moreover that line was actually me being less serious and more playful tbh. Not something I do when I take things (too) seriously.
..the buzzfeed poll is massive and as such is indicative that a larger portion of fandom regard Snyder's movies as piles of s**t and it kills you.
A great place to close on. Ignoring what type of columns and coverage the buzzfeed readers have been subject to on this material(the Io9 paradigm being an example).
Something you seemingly can't understand is that almost all those polls are skewed inside of the dceu films. Picking favorites/non favorites with a single vote not a no walk off vote. How you people go from people forced to pick favorites amongst a pool to them thinking said movies are pile of **** is...presumptuous, to put it nicely.
If you take the 12 hit mcu films right now and do these favorite/least favorite, you will likely see heavy skewing, and that's 12 hit films. According to you, that means the rest are thought to be 'piles of ****' a revelation that will kill anyone that argues differently.
Simpler: You take Nolan's 3 film trilogy, ask 100k people which is their favorite. There will likely be skewing. Ask them which is the best. God forbid ask them which is the best Villain. Then in come detractors who will quickly make posts about how the rest are piles of **** and the fans have spoken!
Surely if nothing else you understand this much.
