CBR's "Cup O' Joe" With Brevoort & Alonso: Events & A Key Panel!

[Dread]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=28398

I don't usually link these, but some bits needed to be seen, I thought.

Marvel is ripping off DC's 52 idea from BOOSTER GOLD within AVENGERS:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?disp=img&pid=1284757544

The other thing that sparked my attention was the complete and utter inability of either Tom Brevoort or Axel Alonso to in any way be aware of the effect that Marvel has had on the market, and on gearing audiences' expectations towards things that now are proving harmful. All they do is blame DC or "the times" like some clueless old men who may be over 40 but still haven't learned there's an "i" in "responsibility".

Highlights:

- As the image shows, apparently some future map in AVENGERS will be critical to the next year or so of books. CBR even has the tag, "AVENGERS #5 contains the most important panel in a Marvel Comic this year."
- Tom Brevoort insisting that SHADOWLAND is a smaller event than SIEGE on pure technical terms - SIEGE had about 40-50 crossovers, tie-ins, and side mini's and SHADOWLAND has a "mere" 30. Bravo, Capt. Technical.
- Tom Brevoort and Axel Alonso proving that the disconnect between editors and consumers is alive and well.
- At no point is it mentioned that so many of these books are $4, and that Marvel literally hiked costs 33% for retailers and readers in the midst of the worst economic recession in a generation, then wonders why there is so much lament for so many books.
- Claims not all the books are important while promoting all books as important, then wondering why no one takes their vows at face value nor is willing to try anything new.
- Zero mention of those dark days before 2004, when comics were under $2.99 and Marvel wasn't relying on events, big or small.
- Insists there is no difference between shamelessly shilling a gazillion books now, at $4 a pop during a period of, say, 15% unemployment or underemployment and after a horrendous housing crisis, than when Stan Lee did it in the 1960's, when comics were a dime.
- More preview art for stuff like Black Panther as the Man without Fear, Chaos War, Power Man, etc.
- Confirmation that the last X-Men promotional image featuring a seemingly revived Banshee is an X-MEN CHAOS WAR tie in.

 

[Hound55]

In fairness 30 for a five issue series is considerably better than 40-50 for a 4 issue series...

But that doesn't make it not ridiculous.

 

[Themanofbat]

Dread, I understand that you're mad that comics have gone up 33% this year, but these kinds of increases are nothing new to the industry....

From 1962 to 1971 (9 year period) comics doubled from 10 cents to 20 cents (100% increase)
From 1969 to 1974 (5 year period) comics more than doubled from 12 cents to 25 cents ( over 100% increase)
From 1971 to 1976 (5 year period) comics doubled from 15 cents to 30 cents (100% increase)
From 1974 to 1979 (5 year period) comics doubled from 20 cents to 40 cents (100% increase)
From 1976 to 1980 (4 year period) comics doubled from 25 cents to 50 cents (100% increase)
From 1979 to 1988 (9 year period) comics more than doubled from 35 cents to 75 cents (over 100% increase)
From 1981 to 1991 (10 year period) comics doubled from 50 cents to 1.00 dollar (100% increase)
From 1985 to 1992 (7 year period) comics more than doubled from 60 cents to $1.25 (100% increase)
From 1988 to 1995 (7 year period) comics doubled from 75 cents to $1.50 (100% increase)
From 1996 to 2000 (4 year period) comics increased from $1.50 to $1.99 (33% increase)
From 2000 to 2006 (6 year period) comics increase from $1.99 to $2.99 (33% increase)
From 2006 to 2010 (4 year period) comics increase from $2.99 to $3.99 (33% increase)

I don't like the price increase more than you do... and I remember almost quitting buying comics when they jumped from 40 cents to 50 cents because I thought it was too much at the time.

Nobody likes a price increase... but they are nothing new to the industry...

... and look at that 100% increase from 1976 to 1980, arguably one of the last bad recessions the US has survived... you can laugh at the 10 cent increase, but I felt it as a kid, because my parents felt it with their own costs of living going up, and comcis were a luxury item in my house...

When I was 5 years old in 1972, when comics were still 20 cents, I could get a chocolate bar (6 cents), a bottle of pop (9 cents) and a bag of chips (10 cents), all for 25 cents...

Nowadays, a bottle of pop ,a regular bag of chipsand a chocolate bar probably will cost me 4 bucks at a convenience store, so have things really changed?

 

[Dread]

The price increase in comics from 2000 to 2010, technically, is 101%. And while maybe an extra decimal point may merely be "technical", that's good enough for Tom Brevoort to dismiss concerns about SHADOWLAND or CHAOS WAR material as winter breezes.

Comics at the start 2000, BTW, were still $1.99.

That 33% increase is strictly from, say, 2008-2010. It only started to become the majority price for Marvel comics in 2009.

I actually like mini events, but I understand the concern for retailers and frazzled fans. And I always have to decide what to buy and what to skip, and hope I made the right choice. Just this week, I decided to save $4 and not get the SL: GHOST RIDER one shot, only to learn it was very essential to the plot.

 

[Themanofbat]

- Insists there is no difference between shamelessly shilling a gazillion books now, at $4 a pop during a period of, say, 15% unemployment or underemployment and after a horrendous housing crisis, than when Stan Lee did it in the 1960's, when comics were a dime.

The current US umemployment levels are currently under 10%... last time it was this high? around 1983...

Lookit up...

 

[hippie_hunter]

The current US umemployment levels are currently under 10%... last time it was this high? around 1983...

Lookit up...

That's the "official" number. It doesn't include the people who flat out gave up looking for work. When that's included, it's much higher.

 

[Dread]

The current US umemployment levels are currently under 10%... last time it was this high? around 1983...

Lookit up...

That figure isn't strictly unemployment, which is why I included the term "underemployment". If you add up the unemployment figure (which nationwide is over 9.5%) combined with those who can only find part time work or have stopped looking, it is closer to 15%. And this is not including what is called the birth/death ratio to the unemployment analysis, where the government makes up a number of jobs that it assumes are being made by new businesses, but can't prove, that often are used to round off a few decimal points so certain political figures don't look bad. It's a practice that goes back several administrations, at least.

That's the "official" number. It doesn't include the people who flat out gave up looking for work. When that's included, it's much higher.

You get the drift.

 

[Themanofbat]

The price increase in comics from 2000 to 2010, technically, is 101%. And while maybe an extra decimal point may merely be "technical", that's good enough for Tom Brevoort to dismiss concerns about SHADOWLAND or CHAOS WAR material as winter breezes.

Nonetheless, it's their job to get fans excited to buy books... back in 1986, there were 31 tie-ins to Secret Wars II, some of which had "absolutely nothing" to do with it, but we all bought them anyway... at the end, it's all about choice.

Comics at the start 2000, BTW, were still $1.99.

That 33% increase is strictly from, say, 2008-2010. It only started to become the majority price for Marvel comics in 2009.

I edited my post... though the $2.99 price began around 2006...

I actually like mini events, but I understand the concern for retailers and frazzled fans. And I always have to decide what to buy and what to skip, and hope I made the right choice. Just this week, I decided to save $4 and not get the SL: GHOST RIDER one shot, only to learn it was very essential to the plot.

Like I said above, it's all about choice... JewHobbit complains every week about how he has to watch which books he buys on account of his limited comic book budget.... Back in 1986, not all of us were able to get 31 issues of Secret Wars II tie-ins (plus the 8 issues of the regular series)... My point was that prices and the decisions that come with comic book prices are nothing new... I remember back in 1978 (or was it '79), a friend of mine was buying ASM for about 2 years (when it was 35 cents), and then stopped when he couldn't buy ASM #200, which was double-sized at 75 cents... you can laugh, but that was very real to everybody back then....

 

[Themanofbat]

That figure isn't strictly unemployment, which is why I included the term "underemployment". If you add up the unemployment figure (which nationwide is over 9.5%) combined with those who can only find part time work or have stopped looking, it is closer to 15%. And this is not including what is called the birth/death ratio to the unemployment analysis, where the government makes up a number of jobs that it assumes are being made by new businesses, but can't prove, that often are used to round off a few decimal points so certain political figures don't look bad. It's a practice that goes back several administrations, at least.

But wouldn't the number of people who either stop looking for work, or can only work part-time, be somewhat consistent? And if that last part of your post is true going back several administrations, wouldn't those numbers be the same during that same time frame?

Economics is not my strong suit...

 

[Dread]

Nonetheless, it's their job to get fans excited to buy books... back in 1986, there were 31 tie-ins to Secret Wars II, some of which had "absolutely nothing" to do with it, but we all bought them anyway... at the end, it's all about choice.

True. But this also proves my point. SECRET WARS and it's sequel in 1986 were THE big Marvel events of that year. SECRET WARS was one of Marvel's first big events. It had 31 chapters. It was the BIG DEAL.

Fast forward. Now? A BIG DEAL "event" may have double, or almost triple that many installments. 31 chapters, tie-in's, mini's and one shots is what Tom Brevoort calls a "mini event" now. It's not simply an inflation in prices, it's an inflation in stuff that's printed ATOP of the rest. That's what has people concerned, especially at the retail value. Joe Q may have just been a merry little artist back in 1994, but many people who have actually run a real business lost their shirts, and fear something similar. Interviews like this simply give the impression that They Still Don't Get It, and they won't until the direct market collapses, sales completely bottle-nose, and Joe Q and Dan DiDio have to spend half their day answering, "How could you not see this coming, when we all sure did" questions.

True, people have been saying that since the 1950's. But the economic crisis of 2010 has made a lot of things that seemed improbable more probable, and at the very least has worried and effected people.

Except Marvel, who got bought out by Disney, or DC, who are firmer in bed with WB now. These are the best years of their lives, while out there on the street, many are living the worst. That's the disconnect, I think.

I edited my post... though the $2.99 price began around 2006...

True. By sheer coincidence, that was the year that Bill Jemas' influence was purged from Marvel. I've been amazed at how many bad ideas from his tenure that Marvel kept (such as boring, stock poster covers on every book) and how many of his few good ones they've abandoned (such as keeping, at the very least, a lot of the best selling books or "gateway" books for newer readers as cheap as possible). It took even longer for them to shake off his "street level" ideas for every hero.

Like I said above, it's all about choice... JewHobbit complains every week about how he has to watch which books he buys on account of his limited comic book budget.... Back in 1986, not all of us were able to get 31 issues of Secret Wars II tie-ins (plus the 8 issues of the regular series)... My point was that prices and the decisions that come with comic book prices are nothing new... I remember back in 1978 (or was it '79), a friend of mine was buying ASM for about 2 years (when it was 35 cents), and then stopped when he couldn't buy ASM #200, which was double-sized at 75 cents... you can laugh, but that was very real to everybody back then....

It is about choice. But it seems, at best, awkward that two of Marvel's top 3 editors lament about choices yet do nothing to make them any easier. I'm not saying, as one of Brevoort's examples, they sell a solicit that claims a book "sucks" and to not buy it - c'mon, man, no one said that. But would skimming the tidal wave of comics from 100+ a month to, say, back to the mid 70-80 titles from a few years ago, would creators literally die in the streets? Would Tom DeFalco have to beg for bread?

I'm 100% gung ho for CHAOS WAR...and even I think these one-shots and mini's for it are excessive. Imagine if I made my business trying to figure out which to stock and which to skip, and had to convince regular costumers who bosses didn't get handed a $4 billion dollar check and who would lose their jobs if they turned in a work assignment even a day late to give as many books as possible a try.

Cut the price a tad (would Marvel go bankrupt again if some comics were, SHOCK OF ALL SHOCKS, $3.75) or stop releasing so many das't titles! But don't spam and hike and then wonder why people are frazzled, confused, even angry, not at a time like this.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Heh, that page of Avengers does absolutely nothing to change my mind about buying the series. Sandwich as many "important" moments in there as you like; if the stories are as characteristically terrible as Bendis' Avengers stories always are--and it sure seemed like they will be based on the first 3 issues--that book doesn't exist to me.

 

[Dread]

It doesn't exist to me either.

Hopefully SECRET AVENGERS continues to exist to me.

 

[JewishHobbit]

They all exist to me... can someone make them stop existing?

 

[Dread]

The only positive thing about that panel, though, is that if it convinces even, say, a third of AVENGERS readers into believing that CHAOS WAR really is important, then that'll be good. Then it'll get the attention it deserves, shops will order enough of it and I won't have to hunt it down.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Sorry, I'm an Avengers fan and I still don't plan on buying Chaos War. I doubt I'll even pick up the X-Men stuff... but the jury's out on that one.

 

[fifthfiend]

Sorry, I'm an Avengers fan and I still don't plan on buying Chaos War. I doubt I'll even pick up the X-Men stuff... but the jury's out on that one.

Buy Chaos War, y'big jerk!

The Lion of Olympus demands your moneys!

 

[JewishHobbit]

Okay you convinced me.

 

[Dread]

Hell, CHAOS WAR involves quite a few Avengers. Three members of the new God-Squad are Hercules, Thor, and Sersi, who were all Avengers together (four if you consider that Amadeus Cho an actual member of the Mighty Avengers and not just Herc's sidekick when he was a member). And Fred Van Lente (co-writer of CHAOS WAR) has a side mini called DEAD AVENGERS that has a few Avengers who have been revived by the reality warping going on a quest. It aims to be good, actually. But I do understand retailer angst about what'll sell and what won't with all these gazillion books. At one of my local shops, the middle aged woman who runs it once almost begged me to make heads or tales of an issue of PREVIEWS and what to order because "you're on the Internet" and I'm a regular.

 

[fifthfiend]

Silly middle-aged woman, everyone knows that nothing the internet likes will sell.

BUT ANYWAY the major reason I would tell someone to buy Chaos War isn't so much Avengers-related as that Hercules is great and everything he's been in so far is great and this the culmination of ummmmm... **** when did Oeming's Ares miniseries come out? However many years ago that is worth of stories that have all been great.

 

[Dread]

I didn't read that ARES series, but I do agree that it is the culmination of the 3-4 years of great Pak/Van Lente Herc & Cho stories and that is the main reason I am on it. The Avengers and a new God-Squad are a bonus. I just think it'll be really good.

 

[fifthfiend]

Ares was good as ****, you should read it.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

What, no love for the 2.25 price? Shortly after the start of MC2 comics rose to 2.25, which would make it roughly 2000, 2001.

I remember when I first started a pull list, I was able to get EVERY comic Marvel put out for $30 a week. Now I get about 80% of the books that come out a week for $100. Inflation is the WORST invention ever, and frankly makes absolutely no sense outside of the fact someone decided they wanted to get rich quicker, raised their prices, and it caught on.

 

[kguillou]

I dunno bout you guys but the price hike has definitely affected me. Even when the books were 2.99 a piece, i had no problem picking up 8-10 titles whenever i went into the comic shop. Now? If i'm feeling generous, maybe 3.

Also whats scary is...at what point will it become too much for a comic book. Obviously prices will continue to rise. We're eventually going to get to the point where comics are 6, maybe $7 a piece. Will people be willing to pay that for a 22 page book?

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Tell ya right now I wouldn't.

 

[BlackSymbiote]

Inflation is the WORST invention ever, and frankly makes absolutely no sense outside of the fact someone decided they wanted to get rich quicker, raised their prices, and it caught on.

Ignorance on parade. You have no idea what inflation is.